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Forums - Politics Discussion - On the topic of refugees

barneystinson69 on 29 January 2016
ReimTime said:
Japan has a unique approach, apparently they turn away close to 99% of refugees, and check the status of any accepted refugees' home country so that they may send them back as soon as it is deemed safe.
*note* give me a few minutes to look for the source on ^^^that*

Thing is, this is probably in large part due to their population density; they don't have the room for refugees. Here in Canada, we do. Hopefully I can dispel a few myths and give a clear picture of our situation in regards to the refugee crisis. A lot of it will be rambling but hopefully somebody learns something.

The thing about Canadians, specifically Western Canadians like here in Alberta, is the blame for economic hits is frequently placed on those in power no matter - whose fault it actually is. For instance, Notley (Alberta democratic Premier) and Trudeau (Liberal Prime Minister of Canada) have been blamed numerous times for the oil crisis, and for all of the jobs that have been lost (by some, not all, Albertans). It isn't their fault though. Furthermore I think it is ironic that Albertans like complaining about those less fortunate than them (in reference to a generalised "oil patch worker" etc), saying that they are poor because they don't get off their butts and work - and that the "communist" Trudeau would take the money from hard working Albertans to give to lazy loafers. That statement on impoverished people is a big myth, and as maaaany are finding out with their recent lay-offs, it can be very hard to find a job in order to support your family when the odds aren't in your favor. A lot of hard work is involved and not much money is gained if you live in poverty. I pray that Trudeau turns our way to send Alberta assistance now that we are a have-not province, much like Alberta has consistently had their money given to other provinces in past years.

How will the refugees fare in the bible belt and Traditional-Conservative area of Canada where I reside? It is tough to say. I do believe they will be welcomed in the majority of our provinces, but Alberta and Saskatchewan are a little more traditional in their beliefs. Many Albertans will not like having refugees around, and especially will not like the premise of giving them economic support - and they will say that any and all money should be sent to our own citizens who are suffering unemployment. Well, many shot themselves in the foot with their excessive spending, thinking that oil would be around forever - but I do still feel sorry for them as fellow Canadians. Hopefully they learn humility. The boom in oil was never meant to last; many Canadians who moved to Fort Mac from the maritime provinces knew this and did not bring their families over with them. Others, namely young adults with High School diplomas, did not understand the situation so much and moved here; spending almost all of their pay cheques on big trucks and toys, starting young families with an unsustainable spending model. These are mainly the ones suffering now. How will they accept the refugees? I really don't know. A lot of people are mad at Notley for her economic platform which will run a deficit. More economic burden on the province will surely raise an uproar.

Saskatchewan has told Trudeau to slow down with bringing refugees over, and this isn't necessarily because we do not want the refugees - it is because preparation for taking them in takes time. Thankfully Trudeau has noted these requests and agreed that it isn't a matter to be rushed. It kind of sucks if you are a refugee wanting to get out of your current situation, but it is a necessary step to take.

To summarize, we certainly have the space to take in refugees, and I believe it is our duty to do so. Many westerners are not happy about it, as the recent oil crisis has caused unemployment and resentment as the unemployed believe they should receive the economic relief: "why bring in more mouths to feed when our own are in need of help?" Combine this with the election of a left-wing premier in Alberta (and a left-wing Prime Minister), and a lot of fingers are being pointed. All the remaining provinces will surely do their best to accommodate refugees, as long as they are not rushed over here there should not be too much trouble. We have a pretty secure dual-screening process that should be able to filter out any troublemakers.

One thing I would like to point out - and it may or may not be true - is that the spotlight will surely be on any refugee that is accepted into a country, and any poor action by any one of them will be reflected on the whole. It's not the right thing to do but it will happen, and the media will jump on it and monger fear. But how do the crime rates of refugees compare to the crime rates of existing citizens? What about the refugees who do not act out? I see one way of dealing with it. Deviant individuals will be deported. All the rest can stay.

 


Well congrats. But do you live in Calgary? Go to NE... I wonder how great the accomidation is there....

 

Albertans know full well what the refugee crisis has done in Europe. Harper was planning on screening all of them properly, and bringing doses that Canada could handle. Even the NDP had a good plan, but the liberals just stuff them in, and are just trying to meet quotia's... you won't know who is "defiant" until its far too late.



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

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Barozi on 29 January 2016
barneystinson69 said:
Barozi said:
barneystinson69 said:

So can you explain why many of these refugee's are causing violence and acting demanding. Give me a source that proves this, because if this was the case, Sweden and Germany wouldn't be deporting so many people...

many? Out of a million in Germany alone, there are only a few hundred or even thousand (if we even go that far) that are causing problems. That's still faaaar below 1% and thus below the ratio of remaining Nazis in Germany. (Judging by the votes the NPD got in 2013. Not even counting the other extremist parties of the right scene).

That's like saying that this site has many Oyua owners. Hilariously wrong.

 

Ummm... just new years in cologne alone was a disaster. 100s of rape's, and a city that was turned to hell. And your telling me they aren't causing problems? And the best part... the government tried to cover it up! So lets help these people, because white's are 2nd class now :D, and these women deserved it because these "refugee's" didn't like the way these women dressed.

*yawn* you're making yourself look more ignorant with every post. Please learn your facts and stop lying.

starts with how you don't even know what rape is.
City turned to hell. yeah sure, because Cologne isn't the 4th biggest city in Germany with a few hundred square kilometers in size, it's just one big train station.
You obviously lack reading comprehension as I never said "they aren't causing problems". It was you who said that "many" are causing violence. You finding a few dozen or hundred is not even close to "many" and certainly not enough to blame the 99% innocent ones.
The government tried to cover it up? Any proof? The news agencies were slow during the days following New Year's Eve, the vast majority of women went to the police several days after the incident. Women had only filed 60 charges after the first 4 days. How could anyone know the magnitude of these robbery and sexual harassment attacks on the 1st or 2nd or 3rd day of the month?

Also the German government has no power over the Bundesland North Rhine-Westphalia or the city of Cologne, where the attacks happened. Don't be such a conspiracy theorist.





ReimTime on 29 January 2016
barneystinson69 said:
ReimTime said:
Japan has a unique approach, apparently they turn away close to 99% of refugees, and check the status of any accepted refugees' home country so that they may send them back as soon as it is deemed safe.
*note* give me a few minutes to look for the source on ^^^that*

Thing is, this is probably in large part due to their population density; they don't have the room for refugees. Here in Canada, we do. Hopefully I can dispel a few myths and give a clear picture of our situation in regards to the refugee crisis. A lot of it will be rambling but hopefully somebody learns something.

The thing about Canadians, specifically Western Canadians like here in Alberta, is the blame for economic hits is frequently placed on those in power no matter - whose fault it actually is. For instance, Notley (Alberta democratic Premier) and Trudeau (Liberal Prime Minister of Canada) have been blamed numerous times for the oil crisis, and for all of the jobs that have been lost (by some, not all, Albertans). It isn't their fault though. Furthermore I think it is ironic that Albertans like complaining about those less fortunate than them (in reference to a generalised "oil patch worker" etc), saying that they are poor because they don't get off their butts and work - and that the "communist" Trudeau would take the money from hard working Albertans to give to lazy loafers. That statement on impoverished people is a big myth, and as maaaany are finding out with their recent lay-offs, it can be very hard to find a job in order to support your family when the odds aren't in your favor. A lot of hard work is involved and not much money is gained if you live in poverty. I pray that Trudeau turns our way to send Alberta assistance now that we are a have-not province, much like Alberta has consistently had their money given to other provinces in past years.

How will the refugees fare in the bible belt and Traditional-Conservative area of Canada where I reside? It is tough to say. I do believe they will be welcomed in the majority of our provinces, but Alberta and Saskatchewan are a little more traditional in their beliefs. Many Albertans will not like having refugees around, and especially will not like the premise of giving them economic support - and they will say that any and all money should be sent to our own citizens who are suffering unemployment. Well, many shot themselves in the foot with their excessive spending, thinking that oil would be around forever - but I do still feel sorry for them as fellow Canadians. Hopefully they learn humility. The boom in oil was never meant to last; many Canadians who moved to Fort Mac from the maritime provinces knew this and did not bring their families over with them. Others, namely young adults with High School diplomas, did not understand the situation so much and moved here; spending almost all of their pay cheques on big trucks and toys, starting young families with an unsustainable spending model. These are mainly the ones suffering now. How will they accept the refugees? I really don't know. A lot of people are mad at Notley for her economic platform which will run a deficit. More economic burden on the province will surely raise an uproar.

Saskatchewan has told Trudeau to slow down with bringing refugees over, and this isn't necessarily because we do not want the refugees - it is because preparation for taking them in takes time. Thankfully Trudeau has noted these requests and agreed that it isn't a matter to be rushed. It kind of sucks if you are a refugee wanting to get out of your current situation, but it is a necessary step to take.

To summarize, we certainly have the space to take in refugees, and I believe it is our duty to do so. Many westerners are not happy about it, as the recent oil crisis has caused unemployment and resentment as the unemployed believe they should receive the economic relief: "why bring in more mouths to feed when our own are in need of help?" Combine this with the election of a left-wing premier in Alberta (and a left-wing Prime Minister), and a lot of fingers are being pointed. All the remaining provinces will surely do their best to accommodate refugees, as long as they are not rushed over here there should not be too much trouble. We have a pretty secure dual-screening process that should be able to filter out any troublemakers.

One thing I would like to point out - and it may or may not be true - is that the spotlight will surely be on any refugee that is accepted into a country, and any poor action by any one of them will be reflected on the whole. It's not the right thing to do but it will happen, and the media will jump on it and monger fear. But how do the crime rates of refugees compare to the crime rates of existing citizens? What about the refugees who do not act out? I see one way of dealing with it. Deviant individuals will be deported. All the rest can stay.

 


Well congrats. But do you live in Calgary? Go to NE... I wonder how great the accomidation is there....

 

Albertans know full well what the refugee crisis has done in Europe. Harper was planning on screening all of them properly, and bringing doses that Canada could handle. Even the NDP had a good plan, but the liberals just stuff them in, and are just trying to meet quotia's...

 

No I am further south in the most religious part of Canada, actually. You should hear what some people are saying. It's like I live in a city of 90,000 Trumps.

As for Trudeau stuffing them in, I think he's doing it too fast. I am not sure if he met the quota of 25,000 before 2016, but I do know he wants 50,000 in before the end of 2016. I don't know if it is sustainable or safe. I do know that Canada is meeting with US lawmakers to discuss the fast-track process next week, so hopefully we know more by then. They make it sound ok but I am not wholly convinced.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/trudeau-government-sends-letter-to-u-s-senate-committee-thats-dissecting-canadas-fast-track-refugee-plan

Here is the screening process, which AFAIK is still in place:



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barneystinson69 on 29 January 2016
ReimTime said:
barneystinson69 said:
ReimTime said:
Japan has a unique approach, apparently they turn away close to 99% of refugees, and check the status of any accepted refugees' home country so that they may send them back as soon as it is deemed safe.
*note* give me a few minutes to look for the source on ^^^that*

Thing is, this is probably in large part due to their population density; they don't have the room for refugees. Here in Canada, we do. Hopefully I can dispel a few myths and give a clear picture of our situation in regards to the refugee crisis. A lot of it will be rambling but hopefully somebody learns something.

The thing about Canadians, specifically Western Canadians like here in Alberta, is the blame for economic hits is frequently placed on those in power no matter - whose fault it actually is. For instance, Notley (Alberta democratic Premier) and Trudeau (Liberal Prime Minister of Canada) have been blamed numerous times for the oil crisis, and for all of the jobs that have been lost (by some, not all, Albertans). It isn't their fault though. Furthermore I think it is ironic that Albertans like complaining about those less fortunate than them (in reference to a generalised "oil patch worker" etc), saying that they are poor because they don't get off their butts and work - and that the "communist" Trudeau would take the money from hard working Albertans to give to lazy loafers. That statement on impoverished people is a big myth, and as maaaany are finding out with their recent lay-offs, it can be very hard to find a job in order to support your family when the odds aren't in your favor. A lot of hard work is involved and not much money is gained if you live in poverty. I pray that Trudeau turns our way to send Alberta assistance now that we are a have-not province, much like Alberta has consistently had their money given to other provinces in past years.

How will the refugees fare in the bible belt and Traditional-Conservative area of Canada where I reside? It is tough to say. I do believe they will be welcomed in the majority of our provinces, but Alberta and Saskatchewan are a little more traditional in their beliefs. Many Albertans will not like having refugees around, and especially will not like the premise of giving them economic support - and they will say that any and all money should be sent to our own citizens who are suffering unemployment. Well, many shot themselves in the foot with their excessive spending, thinking that oil would be around forever - but I do still feel sorry for them as fellow Canadians. Hopefully they learn humility. The boom in oil was never meant to last; many Canadians who moved to Fort Mac from the maritime provinces knew this and did not bring their families over with them. Others, namely young adults with High School diplomas, did not understand the situation so much and moved here; spending almost all of their pay cheques on big trucks and toys, starting young families with an unsustainable spending model. These are mainly the ones suffering now. How will they accept the refugees? I really don't know. A lot of people are mad at Notley for her economic platform which will run a deficit. More economic burden on the province will surely raise an uproar.

Saskatchewan has told Trudeau to slow down with bringing refugees over, and this isn't necessarily because we do not want the refugees - it is because preparation for taking them in takes time. Thankfully Trudeau has noted these requests and agreed that it isn't a matter to be rushed. It kind of sucks if you are a refugee wanting to get out of your current situation, but it is a necessary step to take.

To summarize, we certainly have the space to take in refugees, and I believe it is our duty to do so. Many westerners are not happy about it, as the recent oil crisis has caused unemployment and resentment as the unemployed believe they should receive the economic relief: "why bring in more mouths to feed when our own are in need of help?" Combine this with the election of a left-wing premier in Alberta (and a left-wing Prime Minister), and a lot of fingers are being pointed. All the remaining provinces will surely do their best to accommodate refugees, as long as they are not rushed over here there should not be too much trouble. We have a pretty secure dual-screening process that should be able to filter out any troublemakers.

One thing I would like to point out - and it may or may not be true - is that the spotlight will surely be on any refugee that is accepted into a country, and any poor action by any one of them will be reflected on the whole. It's not the right thing to do but it will happen, and the media will jump on it and monger fear. But how do the crime rates of refugees compare to the crime rates of existing citizens? What about the refugees who do not act out? I see one way of dealing with it. Deviant individuals will be deported. All the rest can stay.

 


Well congrats. But do you live in Calgary? Go to NE... I wonder how great the accomidation is there....

 

Albertans know full well what the refugee crisis has done in Europe. Harper was planning on screening all of them properly, and bringing doses that Canada could handle. Even the NDP had a good plan, but the liberals just stuff them in, and are just trying to meet quotia's...

 

No I am further south in the most religious part of Canada, actually. You should hear what some people are saying. It's like I live in a city of 90,000 Trumps.

As for Trudeau stuffing them in, I think he's doing it too fast. I am not sure if he met the quota of 25,000 before 2016, but I do know he wants 50,000 in before the end of 2016. I don't know if it is sustainable or safe. I do know that Canada is meeting with US lawmakers to discuss the fast-track process next week, so hopefully we know more by then. They make it sound ok but I am not wholly convinced.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/trudeau-government-sends-letter-to-u-s-senate-committee-thats-dissecting-canadas-fast-track-refugee-plan

Here is the screening process, which AFAIK is still in place:

 


Lethbridge? Didn't know they were as conservative as us. Either way, I'd say bringing in 10k by the end of 2016 would be decent enough, considering the size of our country.



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

WolfpackN64 on 29 January 2016
barneystinson69 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
barneystinson69 said:

The refugee crisis is BS. Thank god Sweden and Germany are deporting most of these people. People who're desperate and need to actually be saved should be the only ones left. Adult men of fighting age shoould be fighting for their country, not making other die for it...

Why the fuck should these people fight OUR wars?! We created this mess, we should deal with it. Or do your "smart missles" actually do something other than destroy innocent people's homes half the time.

 

Why should Europe have to suffer, especially since they never got involved in any of those conflicts!

Ever heard of Sykes-Picot? No? Well, it's basically the reason these regions are ablaze now. Europe and the US have since then been meddeling in the region nearly non-stop. The fact remains that both the EU and the US are currently bombing these regions, and are ignoring the demands of the people on the ground, letting countries like Turkey and Saudi-Arabia have their way.

I'm sorry, but our leaders are knee-deep in blood of their own making.





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Barozi on 29 January 2016
ReimTime said:
Japan has a unique approach, apparently they turn away close to 99% of refugees, and check the status of any accepted refugees' home country so that they may send them back as soon as it is deemed safe.
*note* give me a few minutes to look for the source on ^^^that*

Thing is, this is probably in large part due to their population density; they don't have the room for refugees. Here in Canada, we do. Hopefully I can dispel a few myths and give a clear picture of our situation in regards to the refugee crisis. A lot of it will be rambling but hopefully somebody learns something.

The thing about Canadians, specifically Western Canadians like here in Alberta, is the blame for economic hits is frequently placed on those in power no matter - whose fault it actually is. For instance, Notley (Alberta democratic Premier) and Trudeau (Liberal Prime Minister of Canada) have been blamed numerous times for the oil crisis, and for all of the jobs that have been lost (by some, not all, Albertans). It isn't their fault though. Furthermore I think it is ironic that Albertans like complaining about those less fortunate than them (in reference to a generalised "oil patch worker" etc), saying that they are poor because they don't get off their butts and work - and that the "communist" Trudeau would take the money from hard working Albertans to give to lazy loafers. That statement on impoverished people is a big myth, and as maaaany are finding out with their recent lay-offs, it can be very hard to find a job in order to support your family when the odds aren't in your favor. A lot of hard work is involved and not much money is gained if you live in poverty. I pray that Trudeau turns our way to send Alberta assistance now that we are a have-not province, much like Alberta has consistently had their money given to other provinces in past years.

How will the refugees fare in the bible belt and Traditional-Conservative area of Canada where I reside? It is tough to say. I do believe they will be welcomed in the majority of our provinces, but Alberta and Saskatchewan are a little more traditional in their beliefs. Many Albertans will not like having refugees around, and especially will not like the premise of giving them economic support - and they will say that any and all money should be sent to our own citizens who are suffering unemployment. Well, many shot themselves in the foot with their excessive spending, thinking that oil would be around forever - but I do still feel sorry for them as fellow Canadians. Hopefully they learn humility. The boom in oil was never meant to last; many Canadians who moved to Fort Mac from the maritime provinces knew this and did not bring their families over with them. Others, namely young adults with High School diplomas, did not understand the situation so much and moved here; spending almost all of their pay cheques on big trucks and toys, starting young families with an unsustainable spending model. These are mainly the ones suffering now. How will they accept the refugees? I really don't know. A lot of people are mad at Notley for her economic platform which will run a deficit. More economic burden on the province will surely raise an uproar.

Saskatchewan has told Trudeau to slow down with bringing refugees over, and this isn't necessarily because we do not want the refugees - it is because preparation for taking them in takes time. Thankfully Trudeau has noted these requests and agreed that it isn't a matter to be rushed. It kind of sucks if you are a refugee wanting to get out of your current situation, but it is a necessary step to take.

To summarize, we certainly have the space to take in refugees, and I believe it is our duty to do so. Many westerners are not happy about it, as the recent oil crisis has caused unemployment and resentment as the unemployed believe they should receive the economic relief: "why bring in more mouths to feed when our own are in need of help?" Combine this with the election of a left-wing premier in Alberta (and a left-wing Prime Minister), and a lot of fingers are being pointed. All the remaining provinces will surely do their best to accommodate refugees, as long as they are not rushed over here there should not be too much trouble. We have a pretty secure dual-screening process that should be able to filter out any troublemakers.

One thing I would like to point out - and it may or may not be true - is that the spotlight will surely be on any refugee that is accepted into a country, and any poor action by any one of them will be reflected on the whole. It's not the right thing to do but it will happen, and the media will jump on it and monger fear. But how do the crime rates of refugees compare to the crime rates of existing citizens? What about the refugees who do not act out? I see one way of dealing with it. Deviant individuals will be deported. All the rest can stay.

http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2015-11/bundeskriminalamt-fluechtlinge-deutsche-straftaten-vergleich

Basically, the Eastern European refugees are commiting more crimes than the average German and the Syrian less than the average German.

Also agreeing with the part that follows.





Zkuq on 29 January 2016
barneystinson69 said:
Zkuq said:

I suppose you would have no trouble contributing in a country where you might not even know the alphabet, let alone the language. They aren't causing a mess, at least directly. There two things that could be called 'a mess': Goverment reactions, and the reactions of people. The first is because the goverments don't know what to do about the situation, and the latter is because everyone's screaming in panic and not assessing the situation in a rational fashion. Again, there are troublemakers, but they're a minority.

So how about they learn the lanuage, assimilate, and respect that country's value's? Oh wait... that's "unfair".

I'm pretty sure learning a new language is difficult even under better circumstances. It takes time, but refugees do often learn the new language. And yes, they also often contribute to the society they're integrating into. I also haven't heard too much about your 'unfair' argument. I see your views are quite black and white, and you're trying your best to exaggerate things. I don't think that's very helpful in solving any problems. Quite the contrary, it often makes solving problems much, much harder.



barneystinson69 on 29 January 2016
Barozi said:
barneystinson69 said:
Barozi said:
barneystinson69 said:

So can you explain why many of these refugee's are causing violence and acting demanding. Give me a source that proves this, because if this was the case, Sweden and Germany wouldn't be deporting so many people...

many? Out of a million in Germany alone, there are only a few hundred or even thousand (if we even go that far) that are causing problems. That's still faaaar below 1% and thus below the ratio of remaining Nazis in Germany. (Judging by the votes the NPD got in 2013. Not even counting the other extremist parties of the right scene).

That's like saying that this site has many Oyua owners. Hilariously wrong.

 

Ummm... just new years in cologne alone was a disaster. 100s of rape's, and a city that was turned to hell. And your telling me they aren't causing problems? And the best part... the government tried to cover it up! So lets help these people, because white's are 2nd class now :D, and these women deserved it because these "refugee's" didn't like the way these women dressed.

*yawn* you're making yourself look more ignorant with every post. Please learn your facts and stop lying.

starts with how you don't even know what rape is.
City turned to hell. yeah sure, because Cologne isn't the 4th biggest city in Germany with a few hundred square kilometers in size, it's just one big train station.
You obviously lack reading comprehension as I never said "they aren't causing problems". It was you who said that "many" are causing violence. You finding a few dozen or hundred is not even close to "many" and certainly not enough to blame the 99% innocent ones.
The government tried to cover it up? Any proof? The news agencies were slow during the days following New Year's Eve, the vast majority of women went to the police several days after the incident. Women had only filed 60 charges after the first 4 days. How could anyone know the magnitude of these robbery and sexual harassment attacks on the 1st or 2nd or 3rd day of the month?

Also the German government has no power over the Bundesland North Rhine-Westphalia or the city of Cologne, where the attacks happened. Don't be such a conspiracy theorist.

 

My god! So news agencies are "slow"! And only the 4th biggest city in Germany? Cologne's police couldn't even take on every case because they were overwelmed!  Wow, that's a great way to deflect my argument. Well let me ask you this, why is Germany so keen on deporting so many "refugee's". And why is it that the majority of Germans are now unfavourable about bringing in more now, and why do 40% of germans now want merkel to quit because of how she handled the crisis: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/01/40-percent-germans-merkel-quit-refugees-160129090835192.html

https://www.rt.com/news/330568-merkel-poll-resignation-refugees/

I guess facts are facts. People are sick and tired of so many refugee's invading their countries, and their leaders not giving two shits. Hungary which was spat on is now a role-model for many Europeans to kick these people out! If this was handled properly by the EU, we'd see 10,000s of people coming in at a time, not 1,000,000s. You can't argue that this wasn't handled terribly, and how it destabilized the region. And you trying to simply say I'm "stupid" clearly isn't a good way to show your stance. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but there was clearly something in mind: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12085182/Cover-up-over-Cologne-sex-assaults-blamed-on-migration-sensitivities.html



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

ReimTime on 29 January 2016
Barozi said:
ReimTime said:
Japan has a unique approach, apparently they turn away close to 99% of refugees, and check the status of any accepted refugees' home country so that they may send them back as soon as it is deemed safe.
*note* give me a few minutes to look for the source on ^^^that*

Thing is, this is probably in large part due to their population density; they don't have the room for refugees. Here in Canada, we do. Hopefully I can dispel a few myths and give a clear picture of our situation in regards to the refugee crisis. A lot of it will be rambling but hopefully somebody learns something.

The thing about Canadians, specifically Western Canadians like here in Alberta, is the blame for economic hits is frequently placed on those in power no matter - whose fault it actually is. For instance, Notley (Alberta democratic Premier) and Trudeau (Liberal Prime Minister of Canada) have been blamed numerous times for the oil crisis, and for all of the jobs that have been lost (by some, not all, Albertans). It isn't their fault though. Furthermore I think it is ironic that Albertans like complaining about those less fortunate than them (in reference to a generalised "oil patch worker" etc), saying that they are poor because they don't get off their butts and work - and that the "communist" Trudeau would take the money from hard working Albertans to give to lazy loafers. That statement on impoverished people is a big myth, and as maaaany are finding out with their recent lay-offs, it can be very hard to find a job in order to support your family when the odds aren't in your favor. A lot of hard work is involved and not much money is gained if you live in poverty. I pray that Trudeau turns our way to send Alberta assistance now that we are a have-not province, much like Alberta has consistently had their money given to other provinces in past years.

How will the refugees fare in the bible belt and Traditional-Conservative area of Canada where I reside? It is tough to say. I do believe they will be welcomed in the majority of our provinces, but Alberta and Saskatchewan are a little more traditional in their beliefs. Many Albertans will not like having refugees around, and especially will not like the premise of giving them economic support - and they will say that any and all money should be sent to our own citizens who are suffering unemployment. Well, many shot themselves in the foot with their excessive spending, thinking that oil would be around forever - but I do still feel sorry for them as fellow Canadians. Hopefully they learn humility. The boom in oil was never meant to last; many Canadians who moved to Fort Mac from the maritime provinces knew this and did not bring their families over with them. Others, namely young adults with High School diplomas, did not understand the situation so much and moved here; spending almost all of their pay cheques on big trucks and toys, starting young families with an unsustainable spending model. These are mainly the ones suffering now. How will they accept the refugees? I really don't know. A lot of people are mad at Notley for her economic platform which will run a deficit. More economic burden on the province will surely raise an uproar.

Saskatchewan has told Trudeau to slow down with bringing refugees over, and this isn't necessarily because we do not want the refugees - it is because preparation for taking them in takes time. Thankfully Trudeau has noted these requests and agreed that it isn't a matter to be rushed. It kind of sucks if you are a refugee wanting to get out of your current situation, but it is a necessary step to take.

To summarize, we certainly have the space to take in refugees, and I believe it is our duty to do so. Many westerners are not happy about it, as the recent oil crisis has caused unemployment and resentment as the unemployed believe they should receive the economic relief: "why bring in more mouths to feed when our own are in need of help?" Combine this with the election of a left-wing premier in Alberta (and a left-wing Prime Minister), and a lot of fingers are being pointed. All the remaining provinces will surely do their best to accommodate refugees, as long as they are not rushed over here there should not be too much trouble. We have a pretty secure dual-screening process that should be able to filter out any troublemakers.

One thing I would like to point out - and it may or may not be true - is that the spotlight will surely be on any refugee that is accepted into a country, and any poor action by any one of them will be reflected on the whole. It's not the right thing to do but it will happen, and the media will jump on it and monger fear. But how do the crime rates of refugees compare to the crime rates of existing citizens? What about the refugees who do not act out? I see one way of dealing with it. Deviant individuals will be deported. All the rest can stay.

http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2015-11/bundeskriminalamt-fluechtlinge-deutsche-straftaten-vergleich

Basically, the Eastern European refugees are commiting more crimes than the average German and the Syrian less than the average German.

Also agreeing with the part that follows.

 

Can't read German so I'll take your word for it :p

Pretty much what I expected. The spotlight will always be on the outliers. Sometimes fear causes fake stories to snowball (example: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160129/1033925650/russian-girl-berlin.html ) Monger enough fear and you guys will get your own Trump running for PM in the near future (exaggerating of course).

Apparently 40 percent of Germans polled want Merkel to resign over her refugee policy: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-merkel-idUSKCN0V70KM?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews



#1 Amb-ass-ador

barneystinson69 on 29 January 2016
Zkuq said:
barneystinson69 said:
Zkuq said:

I suppose you would have no trouble contributing in a country where you might not even know the alphabet, let alone the language. They aren't causing a mess, at least directly. There two things that could be called 'a mess': Goverment reactions, and the reactions of people. The first is because the goverments don't know what to do about the situation, and the latter is because everyone's screaming in panic and not assessing the situation in a rational fashion. Again, there are troublemakers, but they're a minority.

So how about they learn the lanuage, assimilate, and respect that country's value's? Oh wait... that's "unfair".

I'm pretty sure learning a new language is difficult even under better circumstances. It takes time, but refugees do often learn the new language. And yes, they also often contribute to the society they're integrating into. I also haven't heard too much about your 'unfair' argument. I see your views are quite black and white, and you're trying your best to exaggerate things. I don't think that's very helpful in solving any problems. Quite the contrary, it often makes solving problems much, much harder.

 

I'm not saying that we shouldn't help these people, but the way it is conducted is bound to be a disaster. You can't bring in millions of people at a time! Many of these aren't going to care about what they do as long as they get help! Facts are facts, these people aren't use to the western world, and they aren't integrating. Unless they can do that, I don't want them coming over.



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).