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Forums - Politics Discussion - Should Trump Become President?

RadiantDanceMachine said:

I really struggle to sympathize with your views here. You continue to conflate personal wealth with business success. 

That's because you can't seem to accept that personal wealth is related with business success ... 

Are stocks, stakes, shares, personal investments/bonds and businesses not assets that individual's themselves own ?

RadiantDanceMachine said:

I would absolutely claim that a person who has a spotless business record is a superior business person over someone who has failed many times. I think this follows as a matter of necessity. 

Then you'd be denying the legacy that Walt Disney, R. H. Macy, Colonel Sanders, Henry Ford, James Dyson, Lawrence Ellison, Richard Branson, Mark Cuban and many others that they built ... 

These entrepreneurs were once consistently duds but even they had a profound impact upon many industries ...

RadiantDanceMachine said:

With Paris and Trump it's an inherited value. It's not something they built, it's something they exploited. In this sense, it's a good business choice to play on the family name for sure but it isn't something they built. Trump attempted to exploit his family name in other ventures where it failed, but his name still plays big in real estate.

Paris's value is rarely inherited at all, sure her parents were well off but they have no history of containing vast amounts of riches so she earned her wealth for the most part and if all Trump needed was his family name then why didn't he just sit and do nothing instead of getting into financial turmoil ? The business world is not as friendly as you seem to suggest ... 

RadiantDanceMachine said:

It would be very difficult for Trump to have run his father's business into the ground, would you not agree?

Not really when it was very easy for these guys to lose their fortune ... 

RadiantDanceMachine said:

I think these things have to be taken into consideration when analyzing Trump's business dealings.

"...it would be big stretch to claim he's a bad one when he has yet to lose all of his wealth."

No, again you're confused here. Personal wealth is completely isolated from business, that's the entire purpose of incorporating. When your business fails, your personal wealth is not impacted.

No it isn't, if you own shares or a personal business it is your job to maintain their value otherwise one day you could wake up broke to find that all your stocks are now worthless which devalues your personal wealth to a great degree like I said before ...



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Scoobes said:
Jimbo1337 said:
Tigerlure said:

Uttering platitudes such as "Putin will like me, because I'm Donald Trump" and "I'll be tough on China" aren't policies.

I gave you a list of his policies and you still aren't happy.  *throws hands up in the air*



Those aren't policies, they're opinions and sound-bites. Any idiot could list their opinions.

The fact people even think that such a simple list could be considered a list of actual political policies just shows how much of a joke politics in the US currently is.

First: Thank you for the insult.

Second: My advise is to stay away from American politics if you think it's such a  huge joke.





SpokenTruth said:

Trump filed Chapter 11 banktruptcy 4 times with his companies.  Depending on how a company is organized, what personal assetts are held in equity and the arrangements made with the bankruptcy court, it can have a tremendous impact on personal wealth....or very little.

1. Trump Taj Mahal.

He screwed up big here because he financed it with junk bonds and personally guaranteed 50% in equity.  1 year after opening he had to sell his 50% stake, a 280 foot yacht and a private jet to cover the losses.  All told costing him nearly $1 billion.

2. Trump Hotel Plaza.
He relinquished a 49% stake in the company which wasn't valued very much at that point anyway.

3. Trump Hotels and Casinos
He reduced his share from 47% to 27%.  Again, stock value was already worth very little.  He lost about $72 million.
The share reduction was required by lenders to give the company a lower interest rate and increased credit limit to $500 million which they would not give with Trump having majority ownership.

4. Trump Hotels and Casinos
Technically the 4th time this company is in bankruptcy as it's the parent company of Trump Taj Mahal and Trump Hotel Plaza. 
Trump had been selling off shares leading up to this point and was forced to reduced it down to 10% as part of the restructuring and had to resign from the board of directors.  He no longer operates the company in any capacity.  They gave him a 10% share in the company to use his name though he tried to sue them 2 years ago to remove it (though he didn't want to relinquish the shares, he lost the lawsuit...hence they still use his name).

The first one hurt because he was stupid about how he financed it and then held 50% of it with his own equity.  He didn't do that anymore and arranged to protect his wealth.  He put far less effort into ensuring his companies were successful.  4 bankruptcies by pretty much the same company in 18 years is a damn horrible record.

Aha! Now I've got it all figured out ... 

You can't exactly pin a lot of the blame on him for the 4th bankruptcy because at that point he wasn't a part of the BoD for quite some time plus he was a minority shareholder way before that. All of these subsidaries were owned by Trump Entertainment Resorts and it was at the second bankruptcy in 2004 that he lowered his share to 27% so at that point he knew he had very little faith in that company by trying to lower his responsibilities every time ... 

What was essentially 4 bankruptcies was 3 and arguably 2 if you took into account his faith and relative amount of shareholder responsibilities ... 

Trump made some bad moves early on with the company he founded but at least he was smart enough to abandon a sinking ship known as Trump Entertainment Resorts ... 

Had Donald Trump messed up his silver lining, The Trump Organization he would've been screwed so while his startup ended up as a spectacular failure his family owned business was kept in good condition and that is enough to rule out that he was a bad businessman in my book ...



super_etecoon said:
spurgeonryan said:
Don't even know who Rand Paul is. So yes for trump!

 

Please don't vote.  Please don't go to the polls.  Please open a newspaper, news web site, facebook, or anything that will better inform you about the world.  It's one thing to play a bunch of crap games because you enjoy the tearing textures, crappy storylines, and obvious cash grab movie tie-ins, but this is our democracy we're talking about.  If you want to vote for Trump because you are an informed voter, be my guest.  But to not know who Rand Paul is is to seriously not have even considered your options.  

You mean the same media that tells everybody to vote left-wing?  I agree that people should be informed but there is definite social engineering occuring on part of the mainstream media especially on any topic related to politics. 





Running a company is nothing like being president anyway. It's 1000000x easier to run your own company. You are the boss. You wield a lot of power.

Don't like someone? You can fire them.

Want to compromise with something? It's easy, just cut them a deal where they get paid big dollars too.

This is not how the political world works, Congress is not going to agree with you because you both want to build a casino. Vladimir Putin ain't Megyn Kelly. 



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I say yes. Let's see how someone who has to make their living outside of government takes a crack at running the country. Can't do any worse than the last two we've had.



Jimbo1337 said:
Scoobes said:
Jimbo1337 said:
Tigerlure said:

Uttering platitudes such as "Putin will like me, because I'm Donald Trump" and "I'll be tough on China" aren't policies.

I gave you a list of his policies and you still aren't happy.  *throws hands up in the air*



Those aren't policies, they're opinions and sound-bites. Any idiot could list their opinions.

The fact people even think that such a simple list could be considered a list of actual political policies just shows how much of a joke politics in the US currently is.

First: Thank you for the insult.

Second: My advise is to stay away from American politics if you think it's such a  huge joke.



The insult was directed at Trump and the website owner.

And American politics unfortunately has a major effect on the rest of the world. Even if it's a joke and we can't directly influence the vote, the rest of us have to pay attention.





fatslob-:O said:
SpokenTruth said:

Trump filed Chapter 11 banktruptcy 4 times with his companies.  Depending on how a company is organized, what personal assetts are held in equity and the arrangements made with the bankruptcy court, it can have a tremendous impact on personal wealth....or very little.

1. Trump Taj Mahal.

He screwed up big here because he financed it with junk bonds and personally guaranteed 50% in equity.  1 year after opening he had to sell his 50% stake, a 280 foot yacht and a private jet to cover the losses.  All told costing him nearly $1 billion.

2. Trump Hotel Plaza.
He relinquished a 49% stake in the company which wasn't valued very much at that point anyway.

3. Trump Hotels and Casinos
He reduced his share from 47% to 27%.  Again, stock value was already worth very little.  He lost about $72 million.
The share reduction was required by lenders to give the company a lower interest rate and increased credit limit to $500 million which they would not give with Trump having majority ownership.

4. Trump Hotels and Casinos
Technically the 4th time this company is in bankruptcy as it's the parent company of Trump Taj Mahal and Trump Hotel Plaza. 
Trump had been selling off shares leading up to this point and was forced to reduced it down to 10% as part of the restructuring and had to resign from the board of directors.  He no longer operates the company in any capacity.  They gave him a 10% share in the company to use his name though he tried to sue them 2 years ago to remove it (though he didn't want to relinquish the shares, he lost the lawsuit...hence they still use his name).

The first one hurt because he was stupid about how he financed it and then held 50% of it with his own equity.  He didn't do that anymore and arranged to protect his wealth.  He put far less effort into ensuring his companies were successful.  4 bankruptcies by pretty much the same company in 18 years is a damn horrible record.

Aha! Now I've got it all figured out ... 

You can't exactly pin a lot of the blame on him for the 4th bankruptcy because at that point he wasn't a part of the BoD for quite some time plus he was a minority shareholder way before that. All of these subsidaries were owned by Trump Entertainment Resorts and it was at the second bankruptcy in 2004 that he lowered his share to 27% so at that point he knew he had very little faith in that company by trying to lower his responsibilities every time ... 

What was essentially 4 bankruptcies was 3 and arguably 2 if you took into account his faith and relative amount of shareholder responsibilities ... 

Trump made some bad moves early on with the company he founded but at least he was smart enough to abandon a sinking ship known as Trump Entertainment Resorts ... 

Had Donald Trump messed up his silver lining, The Trump Organization he would've been screwed so while his startup ended up as a spectacular failure his family owned business was kept in good condition and that is enough to rule out that he was a bad businessman in my book ...

It's not just these examples of failure here.

Trump Vodka

Trump Airlines

Trump Mortgage

Trump: The Game

If it's your opinion that not screwing up the one successful business in his arsenal that was built by his daddy is sufficient to deem him a good businessman that is your prerogative, but I do not think you will find many whom will agree.



RadiantDanceMachine said:

It's not just these examples of failure here.

Trump Vodka

Trump Airlines

Trump Mortgage

Trump: The Game

If it's your opinion that not screwing up the one successful business in his arsenal that was built by his daddy is sufficient to deem him a good businessman that is your prerogative, but I do not think you will find many whom will agree.

Trump Vodka was never really any serious attempt at penetrating the alcoholic beverage market when Grey Goose was already valued at over 2 billion dollars ... 

The previous asset owner's of Trump Shuttle had financial issues and went bankrupt 2 years later after Trump had purchased some of those properties so how was he supposed to turn things around ? 

Trump Mortgage wasn't entirely his own doing when E.J. Ridings committed resume fraud and there was a housing maket collapse plus it was shortlived enough to not have any significant impact ... 

Trump: The Game, it's a board game so no big deal ... 

The only serious failings out of the ones you listed was Trump Airlines and that was shortlived too when he sold it 3 years later. It's a fact that he's not a bad businessman that he was able to keep his father's fortune and grow it. Say whatever you want about him but bad businessman is not one of them ... 



Scoobes said:
Jimbo1337 said:
Scoobes said:
Jimbo1337 said:
Tigerlure said:

Uttering platitudes such as "Putin will like me, because I'm Donald Trump" and "I'll be tough on China" aren't policies.

I gave you a list of his policies and you still aren't happy.  *throws hands up in the air*



Those aren't policies, they're opinions and sound-bites. Any idiot could list their opinions.

The fact people even think that such a simple list could be considered a list of actual political policies just shows how much of a joke politics in the US currently is.

First: Thank you for the insult.

Second: My advise is to stay away from American politics if you think it's such a  huge joke.



The insult was directed at Trump and the website owner.

And American politics unfortunately has a major effect on the rest of the world. Even if it's a joke and we can't directly influence the vote, the rest of us have to pay attention.



So do you think it is a fantastic idea for your country to have thousands of people sign a petition to ban one of the presidential candidates (Trump)?