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Forums - Politics Discussion - Can Feminists Get Any More Desperate?

SpokenTruth said:
[...]

Violent crime against men isn't being ignored.  Nor should we ignore women's issues just because men attack other men.  That's like saying we should ignore what's going on in Indiana because there is already a different problem in Montana.

[...]

 

Yeah, ok, but why are the problems with crimes against women so damn important (I mean it's all over the place, it's in the news and even a topic in politics all the time) when there are actually happening more crimes against men?



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SpokenTruth said:Women only style clubs are an outlier and they do get challenged in court.  But do we stop at trying to change society just because they can now work out by themselves?

Violent crime against men isn't being ignored.  Nor should we ignore women's issues just because men attack other men.  That's like saying we should ignore what's going on in Indiana because there is already a different problem in Montana.

 

Naturally I do not want an environment free of self regulation and security.  Not exactly sure how you concluded I did.  That said, you fail to understand that her inability to consent due to not being conscient isn't an automatic consent nor does not being conscient absolve the rapist from guilt. Further, how many other crimes are deemed non-crimminal on the grounds of being inebriated?  In fact, that usually ascerbates the charges.   Assault charges aren't dropped just because the assailant was drunk.

 

Now we're talking business. You would want to change the society into what and how? I'm really curious. If it's feminist context we're talking about, I'd like to know if you advocate the society the feminists advocate and what do you think it's like?

As far as the feminist rhetoric goes, when speaking of rapes, if you get raped by an immigrant, it is because the society made him to do so, and the feminists do not condemn the rapist. If a native western male commits rape, it is because the white male oppress women and it's the fault of the rapist.

As we're still talking about feminism and society, it's interesting how it is self-induced and therefore ok, if you get shot for having a picture or two of a  prophet in your magazine, and the shooters are the actual victims, but, let's say, you get drunk, don't know who you had sex with, or if you did at all, but if you did, you might have been raped by someone, is a reason for shitstorm when the police don't take you seriously, and you condemn the society and the police and the white male and everyone involved.



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Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

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@SpokenTruth: I mean, as I already said, the polical feminism advocates either communism or anarchy, or both.

The feministic attacks aren't that much about equality as it is about attack on the society. And this is what people can read inbetween the lines and get annoyed about. The examples I used were from real life today. It doesn't matter if it is fair or not, as long as it shakes the current capitalistic society in one way or the other. Whether it's 9/11, the Paris attacks or any other, it is always the victim that deserve to be attacked.

Ok, how often men get beaten up in taxi line, and how often do women. Yes, you are right that just because both sexes can be victims of violence, doesn't mean you should ignore the other. But the thing is, that in feminist narrative, the basis for verdict isn't the victim, but the one that assaulted you; if you're considered as victim by otherness, you're not getting penalised that easilly.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

edit:

i deleted everything i wrote here. even though it was really funny, i saw some mod guy make a comment about how they will ban anybody who crosses the line. i dont believe i even came close to that line, but im not taking any chances here. really trying to put my best foot forward even though it is hard at times.

disregard this post. im sorry i even created it.



SpokenTruth said:What we need to understand is that there is no centeral group, no single leadership or philosphy in feminism.  You may see a pathetic an add from one group but it may not represent the idologies of another feminist group.

We blanket the entirety of the feminist movement by the actions of the vocal, and often radical, groups that garner media attention.  The sane groups don't make the headlines and CNN....the man haters do.  

Much like any other group that is different from the position in power.  Radical Islam gets the news so now all Mulims are radical.  Radical atheists get the news so now all atheists are radical.  Black thugs make the news so now all blacks are thugs.   Welcome to the society of intolerance and ignorance.  We like to box everything that isn't ourselves into a detestable package to make ourselves feel better.  And we don't want to admit it because we care for our egos and pride more than others.

Isn't there? I thought the Green movement describes itself as feministic, is pretty open with their new world order plans and is full of anarchists. Not only that, but they silently accept any act of terrorism or so in the west, but condemn every attempt to return peace in the developing world.

The vocal ones make the headlines more easilly, but so do the sane ones when theyre active in politics and are in parliamets - the message is still the same though.





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Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

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SpokenTruth said:

Much like any other group that is different from the position in power.  Radical Islam gets the news so now all Mulims are radical.  Radical atheists get the news so now all atheists are radical.  Black thugs make the news so now all blacks are thugs.   Welcome to the society of intolerance and ignorance.  We like to box everything that isn't ourselves into a detestable package to make ourselves feel better.  And we don't want to admit it because we care for our egos and pride more than others.

 

Yes, but I'd say it is more about labelling -> simplifying than it is about making ourselves feel better - on an individual basis that is. Sure, much of the media loves to add shock value and sensationalism to their broadcasts - because a peaceful feminist rally won't garner as much attention of course.

What you say rings true. I'd argue that easily more than 50% of the social problems we face today can be solved by receiving objective education on the topic - and looking at both sides of the story of course. It's hard to avoid conforming to a convenient "truth" when so many people already have - especially when you aren't educated on the matter at hand. I'm lucky in that I study social sciences at University so I get to talk about this a lot. Generalisations do not make it very close to fruition in lecture halls, let me tell you lol.

For everyone else: Feminism is the advocacy of social equality for men in women, in opposition to patriarchy and sexism. The basic principles of feminism are:

-importance of change

-expanding human choice

-eliminating gender stratification

-ending sexual violence

-promoting sexual autonomy

 

Anyone who tells you otherwise; well I can smell the bullshit wafting from their mouth all the way over here. Every political or social movement with have militant or extremist members. They do not make the whole group. They should not be considered part of the same group.



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Azuren said:
Emperorbach said:

 

false equivalencies 

Except it's not, because all dumb actions have consequences.

If you're an attractive girl, don't go to parties alone and drink so much you can't properly say no, and also know to leave when others start to stop accepting no as an answer. And even then, understand that going to this party in the first place runs an infinitely higher risk of getting raped instead of just hanging out with friends.

I hope one day you'll be able to look back on this and realize how fucking stupid you were. You realize that you are saying it is the woman's fault that she was raped, correct? I'm pretty sure that is what you're saying, but I figure I'll give you a chance to save face.

Moderated

 





#1 Amb-ass-ador

SpokenTruth said:
DonFerrari said:

I'm ignorant of US law so please show me where it's forbbiden that minor drink in home... and if they can stop you from drinking alone in your house how can't they stop people drinking in a party that is blatantly obvious is happening.

SpokenTruth said:

Women only style clubs are an outlier and they do get challenged in court.  But do we stop at trying to change society just because they can now work out by themselves?

Violent crime against men isn't being ignored.  Nor should we ignore women's issues just because men attack other men.  That's like saying we should ignore what's going on in Indiana because there is already a different problem in Montana.

Naturally I do not want an environment free of self regulation and security.  Not exactly sure how you concluded I did.  That said, you fail to understand that her inability to consent due to not being conscient isn't an automatic consent nor does not being conscient absolve the rapist from guilt. Further, how many other crimes are deemed non-crimminal on the grounds of being inebriated?  In fact, that usually ascerbates the charges.   Assault charges aren't dropped just because the assailant was drunk.

Yes, you want the law to solve all the problems, you don't want people to take care of their regulation you want to artifically remove risks.

So for you it's no double standard to say both being equally inebriated and having no violence involved a girl is the victm and the man a rapist? For real?

Minors drinking in the home is regulated by the states and they range from completelly illegal to legal with a wide range of circumstances. 

That said, I believe we'll have to stop our discussion as you clearly assume what I want.  Does it surprise you that I subscribe to Libertarian philosophy?  So much for me wanting to regulate everything.

It would surprise me because of the way you portrayed the regulation, sorry for understanding wrong. I'm all about letting the parents decide how they preffer to educate their child.

OdinHades said:
SpokenTruth said:
[...]

Violent crime against men isn't being ignored.  Nor should we ignore women's issues just because men attack other men.  That's like saying we should ignore what's going on in Indiana because there is already a different problem in Montana.

[...]

Yeah, ok, but why are the problems with crimes against women so damn important (I mean it's all over the place, it's in the news and even a topic in politics all the time) when there are actually happening more crimes against men?

It's important specifically because for decades no one was talking about it.  Hell, domestic abuse against women was even condoned in the US for a long time.  Further, crimes against men do not usually happen against on the basis that they are men.  Better stated, how often are men raped by women?  Until that becomes equally proportional, expect the issue of violence against women to have some focus.

But again, just because one issue exists doesn't mean we have to ignore others.

There were some reports that they are quite similar in quantity, but because of the even bigger stigma regarding a man being the aggressor and stronger they fell ashamed about being abused and they don't report it.

bdbdbd said:

Now we're talking business. You would want to change the society into what and how? I'm really curious. If it's feminist context we're talking about, I'd like to know if you advocate the society the feminists advocate and what do you think it's like?

As far as the feminist rhetoric goes, when speaking of rapes, if you get raped by an immigrant, it is because the society made him to do so, and the feminists do not condemn the rapist. If a native western male commits rape, it is because the white male oppress women and it's the fault of the rapist.

As we're still talking about feminism and society, it's interesting how it is self-induced and therefore ok, if you get shot for having a picture or two of a  prophet in your magazine, and the shooters are the actual victims, but, let's say, you get drunk, don't know who you had sex with, or if you did at all, but if you did, you might have been raped by someone, is a reason for shitstorm when the police don't take you seriously, and you condemn the society and the police and the white male and everyone involved.

I wouldn't want to change society into one that is far more tolerant and respecting of individuals than it is now.  How?  Education of the youth.  No country changes that doesn't ignite the passions of its youth.  As for a feminist society...you can't really define that because feminists themselves do not have an agreed upon definition of feminism.  Some want something more militant while other simply want their plights addressed.  My society isn't so much feministic but rather people simply aren't asshole to each other and regard everyone for who they are rather than the classism, sexism, culturalism idiocracy we have today.

Rape should be rape regardless of the origin of the rapist.  No one absolves guilt of a white collar criminal on the grounds of their nationality. 
I agree about education being the base of change... but unfortunately we don't see the moderate feminists leading the institutions they represent. It isn't because they have feminazi groups that are portayed and moderate groups that see no light of the day. It's more like they are the head and moth in a lot of the groups.

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WolfpackN64 said:
Azuren said:
WolfpackN64 said:
Great, another thread that puts all feminists in the same basket...

Because they actually are all in the same basket. Any self-respecting woman who has legitimate concerns for her rights wouldn't associate herself with crybaby first world princesses, they would refer to themselves as "Women's Rights Activists". No feminist has ever accomplished ANYTHING. Everything they claim was actually by women's rights activists. 

No, some people identify as feminist, some as egilitarists, other as women's right activists. Those are all just names and it's doesn't matter for one bit. The fact remains the OP puts ALL people who might identify as feminist in one group.



"Gender rights activist" here. Which gender? Do I really have to pick one?





ReimTime said:
Azuren said:
Emperorbach said:

 

false equivalencies 

Except it's not, because all dumb actions have consequences.

If you're an attractive girl, don't go to parties alone and drink so much you can't properly say no, and also know to leave when others start to stop accepting no as an answer. And even then, understand that going to this party in the first place runs an infinitely higher risk of getting raped instead of just hanging out with friends.

I hope one day you'll be able to look back on this and realize how fucking stupid you were. You realize that you are saying it is the woman's fault that she was raped, correct? I'm pretty sure that is what you're saying, but I figure I'll give you a chance to save face.

 

 



I don't think that he was saying that but I believe his point is that a person's choices have the largest influence on how something might play out or the likelihood that it will go one versus the other. That's true of anything really. 

If someone is gonna get wasted, they should do that around multiple trusted people (close friends/family) to ensure nothing bad will take place. Sure, no one can or should blame a victim for something bad happening to 'em but the event probably wouldn't of happened if the person was more cautious.