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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - New NX details from Ubisoft dev; portable device will launch first (rumor)

 

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Soundwave said:
DélioPT said:
Wii U has already damaged Nintendo's home console business more than the GC. It's even given people reason to think that Wii was just a fluke.
Nintendo could support the Wii U and replace 3DS this year, but for what? What would they gain with barely supporting the machine for 2 years? To become even more irrelevante in the home console business?
If they want Nintendo like profits they won't get them id they keep supporting a soon to be dead console. They really need a new one.

NX could very well be a name for na ecosystem that shares two consoles: a Handheld and a Home Console; It could very well be not one, but two devices. And if rumours/patents are to be believed, it will be both.

Why shouldn't people consider it more powerful than PS4? What Nintendo console wasn't more powerful than the best console in the previous generation? Even if by a smaller difference.
People say it will come out this year because it's more than obvious that of both consoles, Wii U has the least fighting chance of lasting another 2 years on the market.

It isn't just a case of "i wish it is, therefore it is", it's more about looking at what's in front of you: 3DS is in a better shape than Wii U; has more support; more appeal; it hasn't direct competition from other handhelds.
Wii U is exactly the opposite: no appeal, no support, 2 dominating competitors.

Should Nintendo risk releasing a new home console in 2017 for the competition to out do them in 2018 and have a Wii U scenario all over again?

Wii was a fluke. If you can only do something once, and can't repeat it, that's kinda the definition of a fluke. 

Nintendo should just throw away the concept of what a platform and create something new. They can't keep doing to discreet home console + portable any longer any way. 

There's no way they can support a portable that's about Wii U/PS3/360 in horsepower and a home console that's PS4/XB1 level ... no way. So things will have to change no matter what. 

Personally I think they should just throw away the idea of a console needing to be fixed for 5 years at one spec. It's stupid, doesn't make sense for 2015, and will simply have them outdated of course and easy to take advantage of. NX should be an evolving platform where the specs can increase (or at least a 4K variant can be released) later. 

How can consoles evolve in specs? With magic? Nah...

They will continue to make fixed handhelds and home consoles.





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Nem said:


How do you propose to port a game that isnt finished yet. It takes a year of development to port a game.

This is exactly the problem i have with these theories. You think this is all easy and trivial to do. Games development takes a long time. Bringing out a system require alot of resources. This isnt done over night. Retro is the only studio i can see would have enough development time to come up with something. But if you think that NX development kits cant have been ready any earlier than in the last couple of months, you are sugesting again the development of a game in 1 year.

Crossgen-development and multiplatform-development are no rocket science!

A game doesn't have to be completely finished before the additional work of a second supported system can start. Many assets can be used for both versions, many other tasks can run parallel.

Nintendo has begun distributing NX dev kits to third party developers last October, important third party publishers and selected partners will have got basic informations (specs, supported programming code,...) long before that devkit-distribution... so the preparations can be started earlier. And Nintendo's internal studios will have got both devkits and information earlier than the third parties. So even if "a port takes a year of development" (this is not set in stone): should the NX console launch this holiday season, they all have that year.



Soundwave said:
Nem said:
zorg1000 said:

 

Well if the successor of Wii U and 3DS are one in the same, just available in different form factors than Nintendo can certainly provide adequate support for the device with a holiday 2016 lineup thru 2017.

Zelda U could very well be a cross-gen release for both Wii U & NX.

EAD Tokyo release a console 3D Mario every 3 years (Galaxy-2007, Galaxy 2-2010, 3D World-2013) so a new 3D Mario available for holiday 2016 is possible. They typically release a smaller title between mainline console Mario titles (NPC: Jungle Beat, Mario 3D Land, Captain Toad) so a smaller title for holiday 2017.

Miyamoto hinted at Pikmin 4 releasing next year without a specified platform, it could be Wii U or it could be NX or perhaps both.

Monster Games releases a game roughly every 2 years (2011-Pilotwings Resort, 2013-DKC Returns 3D, 2015-Xenoblade 3D) I could see them releasing a Tropical Freeze port since the game underperformed by being on Wii U.

Retro Studios releases a game roughly every 3 years (2004-Prime 2, 2007-Prime 3, 2010-DKC Returns, early 2014-Tropical Freeze) so a new title at some point in 2017 is very likely.

EAD Group 1 releases Mario Kart roughly every 3 years (2005-DS, 2008-Wii, 2011-3DS, Wii U-2014) so an NX release in 2017 is possible.

Hal Labs releases a new Kirby title every 1-2 years (Nov 2011-Return to Dreamland, Jan 2014-Triple Deluxe, Feb 2015-Rainbow Curse) so a new Kirby is 2017 is possible.

ND Cube releases 2 games roughly every 2 years (late 2011/early 2012-Wii Party/Mario Party 9, 2013-Wii Party U/Mario Party 3DS, 2015-Mario Party 10/Amiibo Festival) so at least one game in 2017 is likely.

EAD Group 2 release 2-3 games every 2-3 years (2005/2006-Animal Crossing DS/Wii Sports/Wii Play, 2008/2009-Wii Music/Animal Crossing Wii/Sports Resort, 2012-Animal Crossing 3DS/Nintendo Land, 2015-Splatoon/Happy Home Designer) 1 game in 2017 and one in 2018 is very possible.

Game Freak releases a new Pokémon Gen every 3-4 years (1996, 1999, 2002, 2006, 2010, 2013) so a new one in 2017 is likely.

Something like this is certainly possible considering these teams typical dev cycles.

Nov 2016-Zelda+3D Mario

Dec 2016-Pikmin 4

Feb 2017-Tropical Freeze Port

March 2017-ND Cube Party game

May 2017-Mario Kart

June 2017-Kirby

August-Retro Studio's Project

October-Pokemon Gen 7

November 2017-Splatoon 2

December 2017-EAD Tokyo title (Captain Toad 2?)

 


How do you propose to port a game that isnt finished yet. It takes a year of development to port a game.

This is exactly the problem i have with these theories. You think this is all easy and trivial to do. Games development takes a long time. Bringing out a system require alot of resources. This isnt done over night. Retro is the only studio i can see would have enough development time to come up with something. But if you think that NX development kits cant have been ready any earlier than in the last couple of months, you are sugesting again the development of a game in 1 year.

The Mario team did Tresure tracker last year. They have 1 year development. Time. The Mario Kart team did DLC until last year, they have 6 months development time. Pikmin 4 was announced for the Wii U. Again we are in the ports of games that aren't complete yet. It will be rushed, poor quality.

And we are still ignoring that Nintendo is not the most efficient HD developer yet. Delays all over the place. It takes a bit of a jump to think that from delaying most HD titles they will jump to next-gen in 1.5 development cycles.

Everything points for 2017 the earliest. You are forcing this preparednes for this year they just can't possibly have. Besides the fact it all comes from the assumption that the portable and home system will run the same architecture. Have you pondered that this means the portable would be more expensive than the portable system?

There wasn't a single new Wii U announced in 2016 from EAD, Retro, or any of the core Nintendo teams. Not at E3 and not at the Nintendo November Direct or at the Game Awards or nothing. Not. 1. 

All we got were things were Wii U projects from farmed out developers ... Pokken Tournament (developed by Namco), Star Fox Zero (developed by Platinum), Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival (ND Cube). This is a pretty telling tip off of where the Wii U is going (nowhere). 

The portable is going to be close to the Wii U in power no matter what.

Iwata even said in 2014 they were working on a "new definition of gaming" and it would take 2 years for them to realize it. 

They have been working on NX for a while IMO, since 2014 at least it looks like. They knew then the Wii U was a dud. 

Just look at the 3DS. Did we get any 3DS announcement that's not a port, localization or outsourced project? Nope. Imo it's more obvious that the 3DS will go earlier. They even work on Wii U games. In Europe the 3DS got a series of Nintendo Selects titles - a clear sign that the device is facing its last year - 2016. So, 3DS will be replaced first, and Wii U in 2017.





Soundwave said:
Gamemaster87 said:

Reggie also called Splatoon  an "Action Adventure" game. He often talks bullshit. He clearly has no idea about videogames, hell, he worked as CEO of Pizza Hut before. He's just a business man doing his job. Probably he just said home console, like he said Action Adventure.

 

Nintendo publicly talked about the Wii at E3 2004! Two and a half year before its launch. Nintendo talked about the Wii in 2010! Two and a half year before its launch. Nothing surprising here. They'll continue that pattern. And if you're a fan of patterns (because of your GBA/GCN argument): the DS was released before the Wii, the 3DS was released before the Wii U, so....

Patterns are great, unfortunately for Nintendo their hardware business is sinking like a rock. They can't keep operating like its 2004, and even they know it. 

Back then at the very least they had huge portable shipments every year, especially in North America and Europe. They could afford to take their time with the Wii. 

They don't have this luxury anymore as their monopoly on the handheld market has shrunk and handheld shipments in North America and Europe in particular have shown sure signs of being cannibalized by smartphones/tablets. 

NX has been in development since 2014. Iwata basically said so himself, and he basically even said that it would take them 2 years to realize that new hardware concept they were working on. 

We have reports that NX development kits are now in the hands of third parties, which means Nintendo's internal teams have likely had them for many months now. 

Nobody unveils hardware like 2 years before launch anymore anyway. It's a strategy that is horribly outdated, PS4/XB1/3DS were all unveiled within 12 months of being on market and the Apple model is the one everyone follows nowadays (unveil with launch soon after). No one wants to see a hardware product, get excited about it, and then be told "ok wait 2 years for it".

After the Wii U Nintendo isn't a position of throwing out hardware a half year after it was first shown. They have to get consumers back. You can't get them back by thtowing out a new platform without telling them for what it is. And more especially after the Wii U needs the feedback of the consumers. If they throe it out a half year after they first shown it, it can go terribly wrong.

And since Nintendo didn't show anything in 2015, I guess we can cross out a 2016 release for the new home console. Nintendo doesn't want another flop.





Conina said:
Nem said:


How do you propose to port a game that isnt finished yet. It takes a year of development to port a game.

This is exactly the problem i have with these theories. You think this is all easy and trivial to do. Games development takes a long time. Bringing out a system require alot of resources. This isnt done over night. Retro is the only studio i can see would have enough development time to come up with something. But if you think that NX development kits cant have been ready any earlier than in the last couple of months, you are sugesting again the development of a game in 1 year.

Crossgen-development and multiplatform-development are no rocket science!

A game doesn't have to be completely finished before the additional work of a second supported system can start. Many assets can be used for both versions, many other tasks can run parallel.

Nintendo has begun distributing NX dev kits to third party developers last October, important third party publishers and selected partners will have got basic informations (specs, supported programming code,...) long before that devkit-distribution... so the preparations can be started earlier. And Nintendo's internal studios will have got both devkits and information earlier than the third parties. So even if "a port takes a year of development" (this is not set in stone): should the NX console launch this holiday season, they all have that year.

 

The thing with twilight princess was it was finished for the GC and was later ported to the Wii.

Cross-platform development isnt rocket since but has to be planned since the outset to take into account the specs of the platforms when designing the assets. Think that they have to port the engine to this supposed NX home console and then make sure everything is working, bugs and all assuming the NX will use different architecture. This is a load of work. Its amazing to me you think this is all very trivial. The development kits wouldnt even be available in until the last couple of months. Yet, you propose porting the engine and the game in 1 year, when the main game isnt even finished yet! This is all extremely forced dude.



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Gamemaster87 said:

Dude, just look at the 3DS lineup for this year: outsourced projects and late localiaztions. Meanwhile Nintendo's internal team are still working on Wii U projects. The logical consequence: 3DS successor launches first. And that's how it will happen.

And do we know if there will be almost no Wii U Games in late 2016 and 2017? No. That's just a prediction from you with no evidence.

 


And what evidence do you have that they're still working on Wii U projects? The Wii U is in the exact same situation if not worse as the 3DS you know. The only upcoming Wii U game actually made by Nintendo is Zelda, and it's very possible it will go multiplat. 3DS got more games announced for it than the the Wii U did last year, and Pokemon Z will obviously be announced soon. If anything they're both going to be replaced even if only the handheld NX releases this year.



Hiku said:
Nem said:

Oh please... Sony is hard at work on the PS5. R&D is done years in advance as you yourself admited. How can you conclude from that that a new home console is coming this year?

Because as I just explained, while they always work on their next console right away, they never publically announce it until they're getting ready to leave the other console behind. That's why Sony kept denying that they were inquiring about PS4, when that was in fact exactly what they were doing.
Doing and saying are two very different things. How many times have we not heard game companies claim "we currently have no plans regarding that" or "we have nothing to announce" about something, and then just weeks later, they make an official announcement about it? Because there's a proper time for announcements.
Talking about your next console only has negative consequences for the sales of your current console, which isn't worth it unless you see more gain in getting people thinking about your next console. This includes developers as well as gamers. For example, Square Enix said that they are considering putting Dragon Quest XI on NX. They would not say that for a game with a 2016 release date, if Nintendo, and every other company, announced their next consoles as soon as they start working on them, or several years before they come out. When they start publicly talking about their next console, that means it's coming sooner rather than later, as the company is willing to diminish sales of their current console (WiiU) just to get the word out. I already have friends saying they'll skip WiiU and wait to see if NX has backwards compatibility instead. Since Nintendo are clearly hoping for better software support for the NX, they potentially stand to gain from someone buying an NX, than a WiiU. Not only that, but early adopters are more likely to purchase more software than late adopters.
And if a Wii U owner for example considers buying another console because they're disappointed with the outlook for future games for the WiiU, he may change his mind and wait for the NX instead if he hears Nintendo talk about it and thinks it's not as far off as he initially though.
Likewise, if someone is thinking of buying a WiiU this year, they're less likely to also buy an NX if it launches this year. Which means less early adopters. Which can snowball into less support in general, and cause third parties to doubt the potential success of the NX.

Bottom line is, each company starts R&D immediately for the next console, but they never talk about it until it's close to reveal and release. That Nintendo did it after only having WiiU on the market for less than 2.5 years, is not a a good sign of a console that's going to last a normal console life cycle.

As for how I conclude when the next console is coming "from that", it wasn't just from that. That was only a part of it. I concluded it based on many different factors, which are present in the post I liked.
For someone who apllauds another user for "actually thinking", you're not exactly showing signs of being willing to do the proper research, as you didn't contest a single point I made in the post I linked, which is where every important detail is compiled. Do point out where my reasoning is wrong there. Because if it's not, then absolutely nothing points to WiiU lasting through 2017 with any meaningful support. More games like Amiibo Party are not going to cut it.

There is a home console, but its not coming this year. The Wii U is only 3 years old.

Xbox, a more successful console than WiiU, only lasted 4 years. WiiU, on track to be the least successful console in history between the big three companies, will be 4 years by the end of 2016.

The 3DS is needing replacement before the Wii U. Besides the fact that Nintendo's president said that the NX is not the sucessor to the Wii and Wii U. In another thread i was beeing told how we should assume he is lieing. Its all very forceful.

So the 3DS, which sold a lot more than WiiU this year, needs a replacement first? You're gonna have to explain your logic there. In just the first 6 months of the year, 3DS sold more than twice as much as WiiU did for its first 9 months.
They're both running out of support, but one is still selling significantly better than the other. Also, the WiiU brand is something they'd want to disassociate themselves with as soon as possible. Which is probably why they made it clear that the NX won't be in the Wii family.
Also, as I mentioned before, GBA and GC launched 6 months appart.

As for the successor comment, Nintendo also said that the DS would not be a successor to GBA. And we all know how that turned out. It had two screens, and a touch screen. But for all intents and purposes, it was.
If NX is not in the Wii family or the DS family, then that could be one way of putting it. But either way, a new console is coming. And a new console will be considered by everyone as a replacement for the WiiU, no matter what Nintendo call it.
You also have to consider that they'd be unlikely to want to associate themselves with the Wii brand any more, so saying that a successor to the WiiU is coming could be misconstrued, and they'd have to go into more detail to explain how it's not related to the Wii family. Details they don't want to talk about right now. So saying that it's not a successor, just like saying that DS is not a successor to the GBA, is a simpler and more convenient way of putting it.

Actually, you can work this out just by the fact that it would be imposible to have a launch line-up ready for this year. Then we get more forceful sugestions of imediate ports of Wii U games releasing this year. I run out of adjectives to classify the idea. Remember that a sucessor to the 3DS needs software aswell and that the president also said they will keep supporting the Wii U.

It's not impossible to have a launch lineup ready at all. When was the last time Nintendo started development for any quality game? The last time they announced any new quality project for WiiU was back in mid 2014. So that would be grouped together with Splatoon, Mario Maker, Star Fox and Zelda.
Every announcement that started development since then has been of the quality of Amiibo Festival and Mario Tennis. A WiiU port of Pokken was very likely part of the original agreement back in mid 2013, in return for letting Namco use their popular IP in the arcades. And the Zelda TP port started development several years ago.
So by this you can conclude one thing. Somewhere during 2014 Nintendo moved all new meaningful development resources over to NX. At least when it comes to new games. Because we haven't seen a single announcement of that nature since. There was an article posted recently, where one of the developers of a noteworthy PS4 launch title, the name of which escapes me at the moment, said they recieved a PS4 dev kit just 6 months before PS4 launched. So having 2 or more years to develop launch titles is plenty of time. Especially if third parties are more interested this time around. Square Enix with Dragon Quest XI could be one of them.

A successor to the 3DS would get software from this automatically, and vice versa, if the shared library idea is true.
And of course, a company will always say that they are still dedicated to support their current console. DLC for current games asside, there's been no sign of meaningful support for the WiiU since mid 2014 in terms of new games. It's either rushed budget games like Amiibo Festival and Mario Tennis (which can be a good game, but this one lacked a ton of features that the previous one had), or games that were supposed to be released in 2015 but delayed until next year, or games that started development years ago (Zelda TP, Pokken) before Nintendo realised they had to move on from the WiiU sooner than expected.

 

Again, you make an excellent possibility, but not a reality. Your possibility is not more probable than other possibilities. Besides, its very reaching.

Is it possible? Sure, its possible. Is it probable? I dont think so. Nintendo simply doesnt have the resources for all that.



Darwinianevolution said:
midrange said:
Darwinianevolution said:
Nogamez said:

Nintendo already got the flagship AC imo ( no pun intended) ACIV blackflag!



Jokes aside, if this is true, Ubisoft has no faith on the NX. They put AC3 and AC blackflag on the U, and for the NX just Liberation?

Then again, this sounds like a very fake leak, the only thing it's sounds legit its Ubi porting a Vita game to the NX. I suspect we'll see a lot of those in the future.



Are you surprised at ubisoft's commitment? I don't know if this is right or not, but after Ubisoft was burned by the wii u launch (they were about to give them 2 great launch exclusives!) it wouldnt surprise me that ubi just wants to test it out with a port and rayman

Well, it seems that, out of the three big western publishers, Ubisoft is the one more willing to give Nintendo a chance. Activision stopped the support once they saw CoD couldn't sell, and EA outright boycotted the WiiU with that unnacceptable Origin deal. Ubisoft kept the support for a while, albeit with weaker versions of the games, and no DLC (but they are hardly the only ones).

Even if Ubisoft has less hopes on the NX, a vita port of a game four years old from a franchise that didn't sell well on Nintendo platforms to begin with seems foolish. A port of Grown Home would seem more plausible.



The port of AC from the vita does seem odd at first, but once you realize that ubisoft Bucharest made that game and has experience porting to Nintendo consoles, it makes sense to use that port to both test the hardware and the audience without wasting too much money.

Rayman is self explanatory as to why it's a good game to launch the NX with



Nem said:
Conina said:
Nem said:


How do you propose to port a game that isnt finished yet. It takes a year of development to port a game.

This is exactly the problem i have with these theories. You think this is all easy and trivial to do. Games development takes a long time. Bringing out a system require alot of resources. This isnt done over night. Retro is the only studio i can see would have enough development time to come up with something. But if you think that NX development kits cant have been ready any earlier than in the last couple of months, you are sugesting again the development of a game in 1 year.

Crossgen-development and multiplatform-development are no rocket science!

A game doesn't have to be completely finished before the additional work of a second supported system can start. Many assets can be used for both versions, many other tasks can run parallel.

Nintendo has begun distributing NX dev kits to third party developers last October, important third party publishers and selected partners will have got basic informations (specs, supported programming code,...) long before that devkit-distribution... so the preparations can be started earlier. And Nintendo's internal studios will have got both devkits and information earlier than the third parties. So even if "a port takes a year of development" (this is not set in stone): should the NX console launch this holiday season, they all have that year.

 

The thing with twilight princess was it was finished for the GC and was later ported to the Wii.

Cross-platform development isnt rocket since but has to be planned since the outset to take into account the specs of the platforms when designing the assets. Think that they have to port the engine to this supposed NX home console and then make sure everything is working, bugs and all assuming the NX will use different architecture. This is a load of work. Its amazing to me you think this is all very trivial. The development kits wouldnt even be available in until the last couple of months. Yet, you propose porting the engine and the game in 1 year, when the main game isnt even finished yet! This is all extremely forced dude.

The first real PS4 dev kits were distributed in November 2012 (the final versions of the dev kit even two months later), the console launched 12 months later: http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/01/ps4_details_playstation_4/

Injustice: God Among Us was one of the launch titles... but how was that possible? The original game just launched 7 months before and a port takes at least a year and can't be started until the first version is finished! /s

Several PS4 titles were even shown at E3 2013, some of them with playable demos, half a year after the distribution of the dev kits... Witchcraft!

So why should it be impossible for Nintendo and its partners to launch a console and enough launch games within a year?





Soundwave said:
DélioPT said:

 

Allow me to disagree on Wii being a fluke! :)

Everything around Wii (the brand itself, the marketing, the games, the machine itself) was premeditated.
There was a plan at work since the very beginning... it even started with NDS.

Did it turn out better than Nintendo anticipated? Yes. So much, that for 2 years Nintendo couldn't stop shortages.
The real problem was that Nintendo didn't read signs and thought that a tablet for a controller was a big idea. In theory, it kinda was, but in reality it really wasn't nothing new and the whole idea behind Wii U just wasn't carefully planned and relied too much on Wii's success.

If NX gets released now, they can "replace" it when PS5 and XB4 arrive on the market to make it competitive. Again, if it really is about the ecosystem and not the usual lifeycle of a console.
It can work.
The question is, are gamers ready for that? It would help, in my opinion, if they sell an ecosystem and not HW.

We will see... February or May (my guess!).

 

I don't think you "replace" anything ... do you replace STEAM? Now you'll look puzzled at that, but that's the point. Steam in no single piece of hardware. NX should be kinda like that IMO. 

There should just be new NX devices as time goes on. 

2016 - NX Portable and NX Console launch

2017 - NX Portable Pro launches

2018 - NX 4K Console launches

It's not 1989 anymore, people are willing to accept upgrading hardware as the norm (see: tablets, smartphones, etc.)

Etc. etc. I think Nintendo may have shown what the NX is already though through this patent, which shows basically an upgradable console:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/12/intriguing_nintendo_patent_points_to_supplemental_computing_device_and_cloud_resources_for_a_gaming_system

That's probably the NX IMO. And that is a pretty bold change from what they do today. 

I meant replace as in introduce a new variation. Just like with smartphones and tablets.

It's true that people are used to the idea of replacing smartphones and tablets, but it's still new to gaming and a bit different: in one year you pat 300$ plus a few hundred more for games and two years after, the same thing? It' s a move more expensive than just exchanging mobile devices. And that's what might put off some people.

Having a new model every year would probably anger gamers - and we know know they are a sensitive bunch!