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Forums - Politics Discussion - White House: Donald Trump's proposal to ban Muslims "disqualifies"* him

 

Should Trump have a consequence for his actions?

Yes, no one should propos... 261 56.62%
 
No, we should ban all Mus... 126 27.33%
 
other 74 16.05%
 
Total:461
Lawlight on 08 December 2015
binary solo said:
Lawlight said:

Well, the Grand Mufti of Australia blamed the Western world for the attacks in Paris and he wasn't arrested. Minorities are the only ones allowed to speak freely.

But was he actually wrong? I partly blame the Western world for the attacks in Paris, all the way back to the end of World War 1, the Western World has made various screw ups in its handling of the lands of the Middle East which progressively lead to greater levels of animosity towards Western powers AND conditions ripe for the formation of extremist groups. It does take two to tango, and the West has been tangoing plenty when it comes to the people of the middle east.


So, the victims of those terrorist attacks are to be blamed here. Good to know how you think.



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Insidb on 08 December 2015
binary solo said:
Lawlight said:

Well, the Grand Mufti of Australia blamed the Western world for the attacks in Paris and he wasn't arrested. Minorities are the only ones allowed to speak freely.

But was he actually wrong? I partly blame the Western world for the attacks in Paris, all the way back to the end of World War 1, the Western World has made various screw ups in its handling of the lands of the Middle East which progressively lead to greater levels of animosity towards Western powers AND conditions ripe for the formation of extremist groups. It does take two to tango, and the West has been tangoing plenty when it comes to the people of the middle east.

Americans have very selective memories that often omit the parts that involve the CIA destabilizing South American, Central American, Northern Africa, and Middle Eastern nations, to name a few locales. If most people bothered to read about how Iran Contra engineered the Taliban and Al Qaeda and the Iraq War engineered ISIS, they's be singing a starkly different tune. ISIS is heavily recruiting people from Syria and Iraq who hate America. Why? Here's a secret: it's not because of their religious fundamentalism and the way we live. It's because we have been bombing these nations for the past 14 years. While we mourn the tragic loss of 4,000+ soldiers in Iraq, they mourn the loss of 500,000+ people. Here's another secret: that's a low estimate, and those weren't 500,000+ soldiers. When they attacked San Bernardino and killed 14 civilians, we correctly mourned them and many called for retaliation ( a la Paris). Yesterday, a coalition strike killed 26 Syrian civilians. How do you think they reacted? As an American, I am appalled that my fellow citizens fail to think on such a basic level as the lesson taught to them in their 4th grade reading of To Kill a Mockingbird: "Walk a Mile in Their Shoes," Until we take accountability for our actions and treat all humans like humans, history will repeat itself.



Lafiel on 08 December 2015
Insidb said:
binary solo said:
Not sure Trump's proposal is any better or worse than someone like Lindsey Graham who wants to carpet bomb Syria and actually kill thousands upon thousands of peoadvanced are no threat to the USA whatsoever. Yet Graham has not received anythiing like the kind of public and media backlash. Yet his proposal is infinitely more barbaric.

I think Trump is a populist douche who is appealing to some of the worst segments and sentiments of society, but the level of criticism coming from some quarters smacks of hypocrisy. Somehow because discriminating against people based on religion is unconstitutional it makes it worse than bombing people because that is allowed in the constitution. In both cases innocent people are caught up in a conflict not of their making, only on the one hand their travel is restricted, on the other hand they're dead, or family members are dead, or they are missing body parts. In neither situation are the American people made any safer.

In my mind Trump was never qualified to be president, this latest rant from him merely confirms his lack of qualification to be the one who holds the keys to the nukes.

He is clearly pandering to a less-educated voter base and has no actual compehension of govermental mechanics, as evidenced by his lofty proposals that lack any reasonability (Mexico's wall, anyone?). His xenophobic rhetoric also exposes a fundamental lack of comprehension of the constitution, because the regulations against discrmination are explicitly and repeatedly enumerated. His "own" party, alongside the White House, disavowed itself of his statements today. Along with "Make America Great Again" and two absurd immigration proposals, what substantive plan has he proposed?

Well, he wants to bring back torture, because "it works" (he reiterated that like 6 times within 3 minutes), while the NSA report (publically available) says the information gained by torture ("advanced interrogation") was hardly useable/almost always wrong.



Insidb on 08 December 2015
Jimbo1337 said:
Insidb said:

He is clearly pandering to a less-educated voter base and has no actual compehension of govermental mechanics, as evidenced by his lofty proposals that lack any reasonability (Mexico's wall, anyone?). His xenophobic rhetoric also exposes a fundamental lack of comprehension of the constitution, because the regulations against discrmination are explicitly and repeatedly enumerated. His "own" party, alongside the White House, disavowed itself of his statements today. Along with "Make America Great Again" and two absurd immigration proposals, what substantive plan has he proposed?

I'm sorry, but I am not stupid.  Thank you very much for your kind comment.

I didn't say you were; the demographics of his base is shown as such: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/27/donald-trumps-surge-is-heavily-reliant-on-less-educated-americans-heres-why/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/09/09/who_are_trumps_supporters.html



nanarchy on 08 December 2015
Lawlight said:
binary solo said:

But was he actually wrong? I partly blame the Western world for the attacks in Paris, all the way back to the end of World War 1, the Western World has made various screw ups in its handling of the lands of the Middle East which progressively lead to greater levels of animosity towards Western powers AND conditions ripe for the formation of extremist groups. It does take two to tango, and the West has been tangoing plenty when it comes to the people of the middle east.


So, the victims of those terrorist attacks are to be blamed here. Good to know how you think.

He didn't say that, unless you want to say those people are directly responsible for the incredible dumb decisions of their government over the past few decades. The Western world has to take a pretty big share of the responsibility for the creation of these groups. Hell many were trained by the west, then left to rott when no longer needed for political agendas, combine that with the massive civilian deaths in the region over the past few decades from allied bombings etc I don't know how you can not see some responsibilty lieing with our governments. piling more discrimination on top of the decades of mistreatment is not going to make the situation improve, if anything it will act as a rallying cry and increase their strength as even more alienated people join them.



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Insidb on 08 December 2015
nanarchy said:
Lawlight said:


So, the victims of those terrorist attacks are to be blamed here. Good to know how you think.

He didn't say that, unless you want to say those people are directly responsible for the incredible dumb decisions of their government over the past few decades. The Western world has to take a pretty big share of the responsibility for the creation of these groups. Hell many were trained by the west, then left to rott when no longer needed for political agendas, combine that with the massive civilian deaths in the region over the past few decades from allied bombings etc I don't know how you can not see some responsibilty lieing with our governments. piling more discrimination on top of the decades of mistreatment is not going to make the situation improve, if anything it will act as a rallying cry and increase their strength as even more alienated people join them.

You essentially detailed all the bullet points of ISIS' literature and recruitment campaign.



nanarchy on 08 December 2015
Insidb said:
nanarchy said:

He didn't say that, unless you want to say those people are directly responsible for the incredible dumb decisions of their government over the past few decades. The Western world has to take a pretty big share of the responsibility for the creation of these groups. Hell many were trained by the west, then left to rott when no longer needed for political agendas, combine that with the massive civilian deaths in the region over the past few decades from allied bombings etc I don't know how you can not see some responsibilty lieing with our governments. piling more discrimination on top of the decades of mistreatment is not going to make the situation improve, if anything it will act as a rallying cry and increase their strength as even more alienated people join them.

You essentially detailed all the bullet points of ISIS' literature and recruitment campaign.

Doesn't suprise me, mixing truth in with their propaganda is a very effective means of recruiting as people can identify with truths they have experienced and then make the assumptions that the rest of their garbage must therefore be true too. Sadly people like Trump et al just help to reinforce their message, the pentagon is not wrong when they said his remarks actually endangers the US and by extension her allies.



Insidb on 08 December 2015
nanarchy said:
Insidb said:

You essentially detailed all the bullet points of ISIS' literature and recruitment campaign.

Doesn't suprise me, mixing truth in with their propaganda is a very effective means of recruiting as people can identify with truths they have experienced and then make the assumptions that the rest of their garbage must therefore be true too. Sadly people like Trump et al just help to reinforce their message, the pentagon is not wrong when they said his remarks actually endangers the US and by extension her allies.

This is very eye-opening, and more people (most especially Americans) should read it: 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/isis-wants-us-to-invade-7-facts-revealed-by-their-magazine/



curl-6 on 08 December 2015
Lawlight said:
curl-6 said:

Like 95% of the politicians in the major parties are white. I think its fair to say we're well represented.

So? Does that mean that the majority shouldn't be allowed the same rights?

What rights? To have an all-white political party? One Nation and Australia First are essentially whites-only parties.

Hell, the two major parties, the ALP and the LNP, are almost whites-only parties anyway.



Jimbo1337 on 08 December 2015
Insidb said:
Jimbo1337 said:

I'm sorry, but I am not stupid.  Thank you very much for your kind comment.

I didn't say you were; the demographics of his base is shown as such: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/27/donald-trumps-surge-is-heavily-reliant-on-less-educated-americans-heres-why/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/09/09/who_are_trumps_supporters.html

So your source proving that Trump supporters are mainly uneducated is by a football field style bar graph that was asked to 40 total trump supporters.  Got it

In this awesome poll, you have them lump "republicans with a high school education or some college but no degree" into one section.  Was this writer that lazy that he couldn't make a third column and seperate these two?  Did he bother to include the age of these people as well?  If I was in college and I didn't have my degree yet, because oh I don't know I was currently working on getting it, I would have to circle some college but no degree.  So now if you are working on your college degree you are now stupid?  Got it