Ka-pi96 said:
FYI firing people because you think they're homosexual is very much illegal and not at all ok... |
Yeah, it's a great way to find your company paying astronomically in lawsuits, not to mention public perception.
Seems like a question geared more towards management or executive then intern grunt. Either way, hiring just to fill a perceived quota either race or gender always is a bad way to go.
To be honest, I think there is a lot more to this and he's reading a lot into single question. He's had around a month to work at this company and it's obvious that something about him hasn't gelled with the employer. He must have done something to piss someone off a lot as passing probation is normally a simple tick box exercise; are you competent enough for the job? Yes good. Are you an arsehole? No? Good, you're in.
Secondly, no matter how good he was (is?) in his degree, it's not that important at that level of the company (especially for larger companies). In the UK, graduates/interns are a dime a dozen and even good graduates are pretty easy to find. If they don't like you or find you're not a good fit with the team then it won't matter how skilled you are or how high your grades are. Skilled graduates are easy to find and for every grad job, there will be hundreds of potential applicants just as skilled if not more skilled than your friend. Just to make things worse, there are also likely a few people that are more qualified for the post who they could equally hire. So at this level, his impressive skills mean fuck all if he won't play ball.
As for the question itself, he didn't actually answer it, and if he gave similar non-answers to other questions then it probably didn't work in his favour (even if he thinks they did). Questions like this at larger corporations are often an exercise in tick boxes and if he doesn't say things in the right way, he's out. The simple answer is to swallow his pride, say it's important and stress how diversity leads to new innovations. He gets a tick by his name for teamwork and gets the experience he needs to get the next job.
| Norris2k said: I myself worked for years at a major, blue-collar tech organisation, and I will write based on that (it could be different elsewhere). |
And I worked in diverse teams that were horrible. Conversely, I've worked in great teams that were pretty homogeneous in either age or gender. Truth is that all depends on the individuals and not their race, gender or age.
| fireburn95 said: Ok quick context, he is doing an internship/placement at a major, blue-collar tech organisation in the UK. Ok, company xyz, (I will call them) had a one month review. My friend is a top marks student, one hell of a programmer and being in the same year as me, makes me mother bleeping jealous of him. (Don't worry i'm still learning.) He was doing fine, did his work, passed his university exams with flying colours, easily got the job at xyz, and was going places. They asked him a few questions which he confidently answered, then came up the next question (not sic mind you but along the lines): How important do you think it is that we get more women in the tech workplace? Now, as a believer of equality of oppurtunity for everyone based solely on their merits, he answered this. Note that elaboration is usually required in these answers, so they were expecting also a 'how do we do this' etc. Also, there's only one objective answer to this question, so it is kind of pointless asking anyway because no one is going to flat out say 'not very important'. Now his answer was reasoned and though out, and along the lines of (again, not sic) The technology industry is large and ever growing and their is a lot of room for everyone to join the party. Majoring in computer science can be difficult so it requires a lot of preparation and dedication to achieve greater heights. With that in mind, I truely believe that anyone who is interested enough to pursue this career should really give it a try, and it could result in fresh new ideas for the industry which is a win-win, and we should encourage it from the offset throughout primary and higher education. Note how he avoided pretty much saying what he wanted to "It's important that we get good, quality people regardless of gender or race into the industry", to be fair he did a good job without going against his morals but the interviewer pretty much knew what he was about then, but he got told immediately after that question that he is subject to a review, and later, he will not proceed past his months probation. Personally, I don't think you can be judged on a very stupid question in an interview. I mean, it's important that we get more, good people into the industry. Grabbing a bunch of women and shoving them into an industry just for the sake of having a close to 1:1 ratio rather than them being interested is ridiculous. Do you think he was unfairly dismissed based on the above or was he unreasonable in thinking so? |
It's political correctness at it's worse. It's a social issue. It's a political issue. However, I don't see it as left wing politics vs. right wing politics. The biggest problems facing society today are PC campus liberals and social conservatives. These groups are completely different in a lot of ways but are similar in quite a few ways. Both of these groups don't really believe in freedom and democracy. They just want to shove their beliefs down your throat. For the left, if you criticise anything relating to affirmative action, you'll be labeled as a racist (mostly if you're white), a homophobe, and every category of hatefulness. For the right, if you criticise your country for going to war, spending excess money on the military, or for allowing corrupt corporations to get away with whatever they want, you'll be labeled as a anti-whatever country you're from or unpatriotic, even though in Western Democracy, the whole idea is to get a group of people who don't agree with one another into a room together and have them compromise and work out their differences. These people don't believe that. It can only be their way.
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| Lawlight said: And I worked in diverse teams that were horrible. Conversely, I've worked in great teams that were pretty homogeneous in either age or gender. Truth is that all depends on the individuals and not their race, gender or age. |
Fair enough, diversity is not any kind of guarantee. But as far as I saw, and as far as I can think, it lowers tension a lot more than talent and skill (in corporate world anyway, where it's less about speed than meeting, egos, specification, long design phases, extra time, etc.). I mean, just spending 10 hours a day for months without ever seeing a girl, it's a little bit strange, isn't it ? Lot of people with talent I saw tend to be angry and stubborn, it also good to have followers, lesser talent eager to learn. Diversity is also about profiles.
| Tachikoma said: I was asked the same recently, as a woman I said "if you're hiring for gender instead of skill I'm working for the wrong company it seems. Pissed off my evaluator immensely, they forwarded my case to executive level, who re-interviewed me and asked if I'd like to rephrase my answer. I said yes and handed him my notice. Incentives and polarization to force a gender balance in jobs women clearly are rarely interested in, is a slap to the face of any man or woman who worked their ass off to get the same position that is now being seemingly handed out with ease so long as you at least identify as a woman and can fulfill a quota. Fuck em. |
And after that ... ?
Norris2k said:
Fair enough, diversity is not any kind of guarantee. But as far as I saw, and as far as I can think, it lowers tension a lot more than talent and skill (in corporate world anyway, where it's less about speed than meeting, egos, specification, long design phases, extra time, etc.). I mean, just spending 10 hours a day for months without ever seeing a girl, it's a little bit strange, isn't it ? Lot of people with talent I saw tend to be angry and stubborn, it also good to have followers, lesser talent eager to learn. Diversity is also about profiles. |
Seems to me that you're saying that minorities and women are more humble than white males. I mean why else would you say that diversity lowers tension more?
shenlong213 said:
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Joined a much better company.
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