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Forums - Politics Discussion - My friend got fired for saying this... your thoughts?

bouzane on 16 October 2015
Jon-Erich said:
fireburn95 said:

Ok quick context, he is doing an internship/placement at a major, blue-collar tech organisation in the UK.
Fired is probably not the right word, but it was suggested he does not continue past his 1 month probation.
He and I both do not give into this third-wave feminism 'made up stats' and 'oppression' bullshit.

Ok, company xyz, (I will call them) had a one month review. My friend is a top marks student, one hell of a programmer and being in the same year as me, makes me mother bleeping jealous of him. (Don't worry i'm still learning.)

He was doing fine, did his work, passed his university exams with flying colours, easily got the job at xyz, and was going places. They asked him a few questions which he confidently answered, then came up the next question (not sic mind you but along the lines):

How important do you think it is that we get more women in the tech workplace?

Now, as a believer of equality of oppurtunity for everyone based solely on their merits, he answered this. Note that elaboration is usually required in these answers, so they were expecting also a 'how do we do this' etc. Also, there's only one objective answer to this question, so it is kind of pointless asking anyway because no one is going to flat out say 'not very important'.

Now his answer was reasoned and though out, and along the lines of (again, not sic)

The technology industry is large and ever growing and their is a lot of room for everyone to join the party. Majoring in computer science can be difficult so it requires a lot of preparation and dedication to achieve greater heights. With that in mind, I truely believe that anyone who is interested enough to pursue this career should really give it a try, and it could result in fresh new ideas for the industry which is a win-win, and we should encourage it from the offset throughout primary and higher education.

Note how he avoided pretty much saying what he wanted to "It's important that we get good, quality people regardless of gender or race into the industry", to be fair he did a good job without going against his morals but the interviewer pretty much knew what he was about then, but he got told immediately after that question that he is subject to a review, and later, he will not proceed past his months probation.

Personally, I don't think you can be judged on a very stupid question in an interview. I mean, it's important that we get more, good people into the industry. Grabbing a bunch of women and shoving them into an industry just for the sake of having a close to 1:1 ratio rather than them being interested is ridiculous. Do you think he was unfairly dismissed based on the above or was he unreasonable in thinking so?

It's political correctness at it's worse. It's a social issue. It's a political issue. However, I don't see it as left wing politics vs. right wing politics. The biggest problems facing society today are PC campus liberals neo-progressives and social conservatives. These groups are completely different in a lot of ways but are similar in quite a few ways. Both of these groups don't really believe in freedom and democracy. They just want to shove their beliefs down your throat. For the left, if you criticise anything relating to affirmative action, you'll be labeled as a racist (mostly if you're white), a homophobe, and every category of hatefulness. For the right, if you criticise your country for going to war, spending excess money on the military, or for allowing corrupt corporations to get away with whatever they want, you'll be labeled as a anti-whatever country you're from or unpatriotic, even though in Western Democracy, the whole idea is to get a group of people who don't agree with one another into a room together and have them compromise and work out their differences. These people don't believe that. It can only be their way.


fixed that for you



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CosmicSex on 16 October 2015

My goodness you guys are gullible. How do we know that this single question cost him the job?



Lawlight on 16 October 2015
CosmicSex said:
My goodness you guys are gullible. How do we know that this single question cost him the job?


Well, it's not implausible. People can get fired for stating their perfectly legal opinion.



Norris2k on 17 October 2015
Lawlight said:
Norris2k said:

Fair enough, diversity is not any kind of guarantee. But as far as I saw, and as far as I can think, it lowers tension a lot more than talent and skill (in corporate world anyway, where it's less about speed than meeting, egos, specification, long design phases, extra time, etc.). I mean, just spending 10 hours a day for months without ever seeing a girl, it's a little bit strange, isn't it ? Lot of people with talent I saw tend to be angry and stubborn, it also good to have followers, lesser talent eager to learn. Diversity is also about profiles.


Seems to me that you're saying that minorities and women are more humble than white males. I mean why else would you say that diversity lowers tension more?

No, I'm saying that I've seen young male only teams, and I felt I was working with inmates in a prison in term of relationship. A lot of people tend to talk more politely to women, for example (in offices, when equal). I'm also saying that the fact just not to have any women is a little depressing as a man. That's what I thought when I was the white male majority, and I still think that way  being currently the white minority in Japan. And I'm not specially humble ;)



CosmicSex on 17 October 2015
Lawlight said:
CosmicSex said:
My goodness you guys are gullible. How do we know that this single question cost him the job?


Well, it's not implausible. People can get fired for stating their perfectly legal opinion.


But we don't know that is what happened.  I'm sorry, I feel that its sad that he lost his job, but I am not going to pass judgement on someone I don't know when the cause is not clearly stated.  There is something that really bothers me about making assumptions.  



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deskpro2k3 on 17 October 2015

OP, your friend should join a better company.



CPU: Ryzen 7950X
GPU: MSI 4090 SUPRIM X 24G
Motherboard: MSI MEG X670E GODLIKE
RAM: CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM 32GB DDR5
SSD: Kingston FURY Renegade 4TB
Gaming Console: PLAYSTATION 5
DonFerrari on 17 October 2015
NiKKoM said:
DonFerrari said:



Totally agree.  unless he have a specific skill or mindset essential for the job or company the whole skill set must take precedent and gender race etc should come after that

are you agreeing with yourself? you quoted your own post... xD


I'm quite genial, so agreeing with myself seemed the right thing to do =D

Miss quoted as it seems.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Lawlight on 17 October 2015
Norris2k said:
Lawlight said:
Norris2k said:

Fair enough, diversity is not any kind of guarantee. But as far as I saw, and as far as I can think, it lowers tension a lot more than talent and skill (in corporate world anyway, where it's less about speed than meeting, egos, specification, long design phases, extra time, etc.). I mean, just spending 10 hours a day for months without ever seeing a girl, it's a little bit strange, isn't it ? Lot of people with talent I saw tend to be angry and stubborn, it also good to have followers, lesser talent eager to learn. Diversity is also about profiles.


Seems to me that you're saying that minorities and women are more humble than white males. I mean why else would you say that diversity lowers tension more?

No, I'm saying that I've seen young male only teams, and I felt I was working with inmates in a prison in term of relationship. A lot of people tend to talk more politely to women, for example (in offices, when equal). I'm also saying that the fact just not to have any women is a little depressing as a man. That's what I thought when I was the white male majority, and I still think that way  being currently the white minority in Japan. And I'm not specially humble ;)


A male only team would only be depressing if you don't see women outside of your team or the company. Otherwise, it can be fun if there's no stuck-up team member.



DonFerrari on 18 October 2015
the-pi-guy said:

It seems like the wrong sentiment.  

It's one thing to want to support more women to get into the field, it's another when it's clear that they want to hire women after they get into the field regardless of skill. I'm a big fan of diversity.

Tachikoma said:
I was asked the same recently, as a woman I said "if you're hiring for gender instead of skill I'm working for the wrong company it seems.

Pissed off my evaluator immensely, they forwarded my case to executive level, who re-interviewed me and asked if I'd like to rephrase my answer.
I said yes and handed him my notice.

Incentives and polarization to force a gender balance in jobs women clearly are rarely interested in, is a slap to the face of any man or woman who worked their ass off to get the same position that is now being seemingly handed out with ease so long as you at least identify as a woman and can fulfill a quota.

Fuck em.

This exactly.  

Sure it might be a great idea to look at why exactly women aren't interested in the job.  Maybe many don't know exactly what it is, maybe they see it as nerdy, or maybe they just aren't interested.  

But if a company is hiring gender before skill, then it's exactly this.  Company A has a quota to hire X women, and instead hires some woman who has half as much skill as another candidate.  It isn't fair.  


Men join the profession even if it's nerd, underpayed, lot of stress, etc... so image of the profession shouldn't be an excuse unless we think women only want diversity and equality on the top end.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 18 October 2015
Norris2k said:
Lawlight said:
Norris2k said:

Fair enough, diversity is not any kind of guarantee. But as far as I saw, and as far as I can think, it lowers tension a lot more than talent and skill (in corporate world anyway, where it's less about speed than meeting, egos, specification, long design phases, extra time, etc.). I mean, just spending 10 hours a day for months without ever seeing a girl, it's a little bit strange, isn't it ? Lot of people with talent I saw tend to be angry and stubborn, it also good to have followers, lesser talent eager to learn. Diversity is also about profiles.


Seems to me that you're saying that minorities and women are more humble than white males. I mean why else would you say that diversity lowers tension more?

No, I'm saying that I've seen young male only teams, and I felt I was working with inmates in a prison in term of relationship. A lot of people tend to talk more politely to women, for example (in offices, when equal). I'm also saying that the fact just not to have any women is a little depressing as a man. That's what I thought when I was the white male majority, and I still think that way  being currently the white minority in Japan. And I'm not specially humble ;)


In my working area we have only men and its ok because we get more freedom to play around and talk our mind.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."