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Forums - Politics Discussion - I am voting for Donald Trump, who is with me?

Ka-pi96 said:
SuperNova said:

This is how Hitler got elected. People saw a propaganda spouting bumbleing idiot, no one took too seriously. He got some votes from genuine supporters and some from people voting for him ironically or to make a statement against the established partys. It was enough to get a minor party into a position where they had the power to tip the scales one way or another. Everyone underestimated him, even other leading politicians at the time.


Bottom line is, no matter how screwed up your political system is, don't treat your vote as a joke.

I think you're kind of underrating Hitler there. He had a lot of actual support and didn't win because of people voting ironic or whatever. The German people actually believed in him and to be fair he did actually do what he promised to do. He was the man he revived the German economy and took the country from being a broken shell back to being a world superpower. He did an absolutely fantastic job. It went bad after he started WWII, but before that he was a great leader for Germany.

You are never a great leader if you oppress a large part of the population.



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Ka-pi96 said:
Puppyroach said:
Ka-pi96 said:
SuperNova said:

This is how Hitler got elected. People saw a propaganda spouting bumbleing idiot, no one took too seriously. He got some votes from genuine supporters and some from people voting for him ironically or to make a statement against the established partys. It was enough to get a minor party into a position where they had the power to tip the scales one way or another. Everyone underestimated him, even other leading politicians at the time.


Bottom line is, no matter how screwed up your political system is, don't treat your vote as a joke.

I think you're kind of underrating Hitler there. He had a lot of actual support and didn't win because of people voting ironic or whatever. The German people actually believed in him and to be fair he did actually do what he promised to do. He was the man he revived the German economy and took the country from being a broken shell back to being a world superpower. He did an absolutely fantastic job. It went bad after he started WWII, but before that he was a great leader for Germany.

You are never a great leader if you oppress a large part of the population.

Well as I said the real bad parts like the oppression came after the war had started. Before that the Jewish population of Germany wasn't that large, they were a minority and their treatment wasn't as bad during the pre war period. IIRC part of their plans even included sending them to Jerusalem/Israel which is exactly what the allied powers did after the war anyways.

I think you need to brush up on your history the mistreadment of Jews and other minorities in Germany started as soon as the Nazis took power.  The Nuremberg Laws where introduced on the 15th of September 1935.



Ka-pi96 said:
SuperNova said:

This is how Hitler got elected. People saw a propaganda spouting bumbleing idiot, no one took too seriously. He got some votes from genuine supporters and some from people voting for him ironically or to make a statement against the established partys. It was enough to get a minor party into a position where they had the power to tip the scales one way or another. Everyone underestimated him, even other leading politicians at the time.


Bottom line is, no matter how screwed up your political system is, don't treat your vote as a joke.

I think you're kind of underrating Hitler there. He had a lot of actual support and didn't win because of people voting ironic or whatever. The German people actually believed in him and to be fair he did actually do what he promised to do. He was the man he revived the German economy and took the country from being a broken shell back to being a world superpower. He did an absolutely fantastic job. It went bad after he started WWII, but before that he was a great leader for Germany.

The NSDAPs percentage of votes rose over three elections in four years from a fringe party of about 2,5% to a mainstream Party of over 30%. This is largely atrributed to people being fed up with the established partys and searching for an alternative as well as voting fatigue. Tactic voting as a sort of wake up call to the established partys was going on as well. While it's true that they had a fair share of genuine supporters (so has Trump), there was a lot of chaos and opportunism going on in between the radicalization.

His spectacular economical success was largely based on printing money and declaring most of the richest people of the state enemies of Germany and dissapropriating their property. Among them, famously many Jews. At the same time he restructured German economy into a war economy wich promised large short term profits because of huge structural investments. This happened as soon as Hitler had the absolute power to do so, as early as 1933. While it is true that there was basically no unemployment, people lived on rations, far from prosperous. Hitler was never a great leader for Germany, he'd had the War planned from the beginning and did everything to achieve that goal.

Germany under Hitler was headed toward a giant inflation that was masked by using various financial tricks and could only be remedied by expanding germanys territory. The War, was by that point becoming a necessity by design. It's not that Hitler had a little slip, went to war and it was a great big oopsie, his whole game plan relied on it.



When I saw this thread on the front page my first thought was, "Bet this is a spurge thread," and lo and behold.



I'm puzzled at actual Trump support. He can't do any of what he's proposing. Furthermore, I was sure that after his assinine (



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The US honestly isn't doing that badly economically anyway. The stock market has been shaky a bit the last few weeks but that's mainly because of China's economy hitting a rut. US is doing very favourably actually:

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/09/cramer-us-economy-doing-better-than-you-think.html

http://qz.com/461105/dont-laugh-the-us-housing-market-is-the-best-story-in-the-global-economy-right-now/

http://theweek.com/articles/568952/americas-economy-doing-much-better-than-think

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/hows-the-economy-really-doing-look-at-americans-income-2015-06-26?page=1

Considering that the economy got absolutely rocked in 2008, to be back on its feet and doing ok in well under a decade is not bad when you look at other countries like Japan and most of Europe. 



"Will go with this and see what happens"

I bet that's what the germans thought with Hitler.

Be more responsible than that please.



spurgeonryan said:

Just to see what happens. In the end it is going to a Democrat or Republican and nothing will change anyways. So I will go with him and see what happens.

 

I suggest you do the same.


With that train wreck of thought no wonder the scenate is held by republicans!



Ka-pi96 said:
SuperNova said:
-snip-

The NSDAPs percentage of votes rose over three elections in four years from a fringe party of about 2,5% to a mainstream Party of over 30%. This is largely atrributed to people being fed up with the established partys and searching for an alternative as well as voting fatigue. Tactic voting as a sort of wake up call to the established partys was going on as well. While it's true that they had a fair share of genuine supporters (so has Trump), there was a lot of chaos and opportunism going on in between the radicalization.

His spectacular economical success was largely based on printing money and declaring most of the richest people of the state enemies of Germany and dissapropriating their property. Among them, famously many Jews. At the same time he restructured German economy into a war economy wich promised large short term profits because of huge structural investments. This happened as soon as Hitler had the absolute power to do so, as early as 1933. While it is true that there was basically no unemployment, people lived on rations, far from prosperous. Hitler was never a great leader for Germany, he'd had the War planned from the beginning and did everything to achieve that goal.

Germany under Hitler was headed toward a giant inflation that was masked by using various financial tricks and could only be remedied by expanding germanys territory. The War, was by that point becoming a necessity by design. It's not that Hitler had a little slip, went to war and it was a great big oopsie, his whole game plan relied on it.

So basically people were fed up with the shitty situation their country was in and voted to change it? I don't really see how that is 'voting ironically'. While the German economy of that time may have been built based on a long term war plan there were calls to shift it's focus. If Hitler had done so after using the military focus to kickstart the economy things may well have turned out very different.

Up to a point he did a good job, but he wanted more and went way too far with it, that's true of both the economy and the war.

Maybe it wasn't voting 'ironically' exactly, but the whole premise of: I don't really agree with anything this guy says but lets vote for him anyways to make a statement and just see how it turns out, did happen. You can argue the term I choose to call it, but it's the same thing that happened back then.

Like I outlined in my post, a shift of focus wouldn't have been feasable, because Hitlers whole economical politics relied on massive territorial expansion of Germany in the not too distant future, from the very beginning. He was driving Germany further into bankruptcy and inflation from the moment he got into power. Then he obscured the numbers. That is not good leadership or a job well done. He never went power crazy or went too far with it, because it is clear by looking at his politics that the war was his plan from the very beginning. I'm sorry, but he never did a good job to begin with, and to anyone who has ever brushed with the subject that is painfully clear.

Also, ever since 1933 Germany was a de facto dictatorship. 'calls to shift focus' were answered with gunshots to the head way before the war ever happened, much to the horror of the rest of Europe at the time.



"Standard" candidates are too afraid of challenging the invisible hand.

But a stupid man can actually be the change we need. Let them fight.

Actually, I just want something to watch on TV :). I'm not even a US citizen lol.