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Forums - Politics Discussion - Donald Trump: Syrian refugees may be terrorist army in disguise, I'll force them out of the US

contestgamer said:
Teriol said:
Jimbo1337 said:
contestgamer said:


You're kidding right? Let's just let everyone that wants a better life in to Europe. Great idea.

BTW people do NOT have the right to a better life. If they want one they need to get one in their own countries or die trying. Better life in Europe didn't come out of nowhere - it was cultivated. Now migrants want to leech off it and ruin it for everyone.

I simply cannot believe there are people like you who think this way.  I am at a loss for words.

i dont know from where is this guy, but damn i cant believe what he is saying, this must be a joke, it's impossible some guy thinks this on this day an age isn't it?


OK, just get rid of borders and nation states. Clearly you guys don't want them. How about whatever country you're from opens it's borders and takes all the refugees instead? You guys seem in favor of abolishing borders anyway.

The Schengen Agreement (English pronunciation: /ˈʃɛŋən/) led to the creation of Europe's borderless Schengen Area. The treaty was signed on 14 June 1985 by five of the ten member states of the then European Economic Community near the town of Schengen in Luxembourg but was not implemented (partially) until 1995. It proposed the gradual abolition of border checks at the signatories' common borders. Measures proposed included reduced speed vehicle checks which allowed vehicles to cross borders without stopping, allowing of residents in border areas freedom to cross borders away from fixed checkpoints and the harmonisation of visa policies.[1]

In 1990 the Agreement was supplemented by the Schengen Convention which proposed the abolition of internal border controls and a common visa policy. The Schengen Area operates very much like a single state for international travel purposes with external border controls for travellers entering and exiting the area, and common visas, but with no internal border controls. It currently consists of 26 European countries covering a population of over 400 million people and an area of 4,312,099 square kilometres (1,664,911 sq mi).[2]

Prior to 1999, the Schengen treaties and the rules adopted under them operated independently from the European Union; however, the Amsterdam Treaty incorporated them into European Union law, while providing opt-outs for the only two EU member states which had remained outside the Area: Ireland and the United Kingdom. Schengen is now a core part of EU law and all EU member states without an opt-out which have not already joined the Schengen Area are legally obliged to do so when technical requirements have been met. Several non-EU countries are also included in the area.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
generic-user-1 said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
JWeinCom said:


Never miss an opportunity to play that christian persecution card...

I feel like we'd probably agree on this issue, but I have no idea what "people say oh religious people are intolerant" has anything to do with it.  

I'm commenting on how generalizations, like power levels, are bullshit.

Intolerance, racism, xenophobia, and all those other shitty aspects of human nature, the ones keeping us from progressing further, can't be generalized to a culture/religion/ethnic group. It's simply fairly distributed among the planet.

I also say I'm Christian not to use the victim(persecution) card, I'm black so that one is far more effective, its rather a direct response to some of the claims in this thread that the religious and specifically the muslims can't live in a democratic society. My Grandmother and basically half of the Nigerian Community I know in Houston is Muslims and the other half is Christian. So its pretty insulting to me. God forbid this forum have some diversity

so the saudi arabic muslimic culture is on the same level than hm lets say the swiss culture?

so the islamic constitution from iran is on the same level than the humanistic constitution of the us?

culture and religion arent the same as race, you choose your culture and religion, but not the colour of your skin.

Ok, first of all, the "Islamic Constitution" is as real as fucking Santa Claus, i.e there is no such thing, its not a god damned state/country.

Second of all cultures are not on "levels", that idea doesn't even make sense. All cultures are equal in their right to exist, and everyone is free to their opinions, but Cultures can be compared but not qualified, i.e one better than the other.

If you want to talk about countries however, realize that both Saudi Arabia and Switzerland are US allies.

last of all, ethinicity does not equal race, and intolerance is an attack on what a person is (where they are from, what they are, and who they choose to be), it is irrelevant if you can "Choose" culture and religion and not race. 

1.  iran has a islamic constitution, im realy sure, same goes for alot of other middleeastern countrys...

2. yeah, sure, its completly random that europe and the us made all those nice inventions and not well saudis.

3. swiss isnt allied to anybody

4. its totaly fine to attack somebody for his beliefs...



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
contestgamer said:


OK, just get rid of borders and nation states. Clearly you guys don't want them. How about whatever country you're from opens it's borders and takes all the refugees instead? You guys seem in favor of abolishing borders anyway.

The Schengen Agreement (English pronunciation: /ˈʃɛŋən/) led to the creation of Europe's borderless Schengen Area. The treaty was signed on 14 June 1985 by five of the ten member states of the then European Economic Community near the town of Schengen in Luxembourg but was not implemented (partially) until 1995. It proposed the gradual abolition of border checks at the signatories' common borders. Measures proposed included reduced speed vehicle checks which allowed vehicles to cross borders without stopping, allowing of residents in border areas freedom to cross borders away from fixed checkpoints and the harmonisation of visa policies.[1]

In 1990 the Agreement was supplemented by the Schengen Convention which proposed the abolition of internal border controls and a common visa policy. The Schengen Area operates very much like a single state for international travel purposes with external border controls for travellers entering and exiting the area, and common visas, but with no internal border controls. It currently consists of 26 European countries covering a population of over 400 million people and an area of 4,312,099 square kilometres (1,664,911 sq mi).[2]

Prior to 1999, the Schengen treaties and the rules adopted under them operated independently from the European Union; however, the Amsterdam Treaty incorporated them into European Union law, while providing opt-outs for the only two EU member states which had remained outside the Area: Ireland and the United Kingdom. Schengen is now a core part of EU law and all EU member states without an opt-out which have not already joined the Schengen Area are legally obliged to do so when technical requirements have been met. Several non-EU countries are also included in the area.

 


I live in Schengen borders. Those borders are for those in the EU - you know, people that by and large share a similar culture, religion and political ideology and systems.  Oh and they're on the same continent too. It's not to enable people from poor countries with vastly different cultures, customs and religions to flood in freely hoping to get their share of the good life pie. We're talking about migrants from Africa and middle east. These people have no right to a better life in the EU - they have a right to life which can be provided to them in Turkish and Jordanian camps. In fact it can be provided in many of the countries they stampede across looking for the best welfare state in Germany, Sweden and others. If you want your country to resemble any of the ones in the middle east and Africa go right ahead, but don't complain later.



generic-user-1 said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Ok, first of all, the "Islamic Constitution" is as real as fucking Santa Claus, i.e there is no such thing, its not a god damned state/country.

Second of all cultures are not on "levels", that idea doesn't even make sense. All cultures are equal in their right to exist, and everyone is free to their opinions, but Cultures can be compared but not qualified, i.e one better than the other.

If you want to talk about countries however, realize that both Saudi Arabia and Switzerland are US allies.

last of all, ethinicity does not equal race, and intolerance is an attack on what a person is (where they are from, what they are, and who they choose to be), it is irrelevant if you can "Choose" culture and religion and not race. 

1.  iran has a islamic constitution, im realy sure, same goes for alot of other middleeastern countrys...

2. yeah, sure, its completly random that europe and the us made all those nice inventions and not well saudis.

3. swiss isnt allied to anybody

4. its totaly fine to attack somebody for his beliefs...

1. Iran is not Islam. Whether or not Iran has a constitution that entails Islam, like the US constitution entails bits and pieces of christianity, it is IRAN'S constitution, not the constitution of islam.

2. Holy shit...Hold on I have to compose myself for this one.

Enlightenment

3. Fine, the US are allies with Saudi Arabia, surely that counts for something.

4. Again holy shit...Im not debating on whether "Intolerance" is wrong, frankly I really don't see the need to in 2015, I'm saying religious intolerance, cultural intolerance, homophobia, xenophobia, and racism are all the same thing -> Intolerance, there is no distinction. Since you didn't touch on that, I'll assume you agree with that, even if you ""support it"".



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

contestgamer said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
contestgamer said:


Turkey, etc should house them because unfortunately we have global asylum laws that needed to be abided by and these people need to be dumped somewhere according to international law - they're the closest safe countries to the conflict believe it or not, NOT Germany thousands of miles away. Also, 70% of these refugees are young men - they're not fleeing with their "families". Immigration and migrating by ILLEGAL crossing the borders of multiple countries is a totally different thing. Following the rule of law and procedures in place for legal immigration is fine by me - crossing borders illegally is unacceptable and they should be jailed by the countries they trespass in to.

 

 

And so what if countries are arbitrary? everything is - so are global asylum laws we made up, so is our sense of morality which makes you think we should do more for these people. That said nations do exist - we dont live in a one world state. There sure as hell isn't any dispute that Europe and the US are not Syria or the middle east.

What the hell are you talking about? This one world state garbage is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

 

Learn to read. It was a reply to someone talking about the arbritrary nature of countries. Fact is until there are countries on this planet we're not responsible for people in other countries - as a matter of fact they're obstacles in a global economy and our leaders shouldn't give a damn about anything besides advancing our national interests.

Then why do we even have the UN, and the UN Security Council?



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VGPolyglot said:
contestgamer said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
contestgamer said:


Turkey, etc should house them because unfortunately we have global asylum laws that needed to be abided by and these people need to be dumped somewhere according to international law - they're the closest safe countries to the conflict believe it or not, NOT Germany thousands of miles away. Also, 70% of these refugees are young men - they're not fleeing with their "families". Immigration and migrating by ILLEGAL crossing the borders of multiple countries is a totally different thing. Following the rule of law and procedures in place for legal immigration is fine by me - crossing borders illegally is unacceptable and they should be jailed by the countries they trespass in to.

 

 

And so what if countries are arbitrary? everything is - so are global asylum laws we made up, so is our sense of morality which makes you think we should do more for these people. That said nations do exist - we dont live in a one world state. There sure as hell isn't any dispute that Europe and the US are not Syria or the middle east.

What the hell are you talking about? This one world state garbage is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

 

Learn to read. It was a reply to someone talking about the arbritrary nature of countries. Fact is until there are countries on this planet we're not responsible for people in other countries - as a matter of fact they're obstacles in a global economy and our leaders shouldn't give a damn about anything besides advancing our national interests.

Then why do we even have the UN, and the UN Security Council?


Because of liberal dimwits. I don't know anyone that even takes the UN seriously anymore.



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
JWeinCom said:

There is precisely one person in this thread who said religious people in general can't live in a democratic society.  As for the people who are saying that muslims cannot integrate into society, what is their religious background?  I'm usually involved in the threads that are against religion, and I haven't seen them posting there.  Can you back up the claim that the people saying Muslims can't integrate into society are the same ones saying that religious people are what's wrong with the world?  Because, if you cannot, then you are making a generalization about atheists and secularists that I resent.

 

So no, I am not making generalizations about atheists or secularists, I never mentioned them, never brought them into the discussion, I didn't even consider them, you did. 

And I'm not responding to the one person talking about religious people can't live in a democratic society, I'm talking about everyone who shares that similar anti-muslim, racist, and or xenophobic sentiment i.e us vs them. Notice how I am describing on their own "qualities" group of people, but I am not making baseless generalizations about them like oh they must be fat white males who live with there mothers or some crap like that.

 

""""""""""""""You are making a lot of assumptions here."""""""""""""""""""""""

No, I am making inferences.

"""""""""""""""""""I never commented on the religious background of those who said muslims cannot integrate into society, b/c its irrelevant.

I also never said that those saying muslims can't integrate into society are the same people saying whats religious people are whats wrong with this world. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Oh yes you did.  "Its insane, how people say oh religious people are intolerant, or they are whats wrong with the world, some of whom are the very people saying these racist things as though its common."

You clearly associate the people who say religion is wrong with the world to people who are saying racist things :)  

And if you weren't trying to make that connection, why did you feel it necessary to mention atheists and secularists at all?

"""""""""""""""""So no, I am not making generalizations about atheists or secularists, I never mentioned them, never brought them into the discussion, I didn't even consider them, you did. """"""""""""""""""""""

Yes.  Yes you did. You mentioned people who say "oh religious people are intolerant, or they are what's wrong with the world."  If a person things religion is what's wrong with the world, then they would by definition have to be secularists.  Unless you propose that someone who thinks religious people are what's wrong with the world also think that religion should be a part of government.  It is also simple to infer that many people in this category are atheists.

So no, you did not specifically say secularists, but you gave a description of a group of people that can only be secularists.  Of course, if you could explain to me how a group of people that thinks religion is what is wrong with the world can be anything but a secularist, I'll happily stand corrected.  

"""""""""""""""""""""And I'm not responding to the one person talking about religious people can't live in a democratic society, I'm talking about everyone who shares that similar anti-muslim, racist, and or xenophobic sentiment i.e us vs them. Notice how I am describing on their own "qualities" group of people, but I am not making baseless generalizations about them like oh they must be fat white males who live with there mothers or some crap like that."""""""""""""""""

I honestly have no ide what "I am describing them on their own "qualities" group of people" means.  Not to be rude but that simply does not make sense.

You began by mentioning a specific group of people (people who think that religion is what's wrong with the world) and then associate them with racist comments.  Then you specifically make a point of saying you're a Christian.  If you're not trying to draw a distinction between christians and another group, why bring it up at all?

 

 I'm not going to get into a drawn out thing about it, because it's right there in black and white.  



contestgamer said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

The Schengen Agreement (English pronunciation: /ˈʃɛŋən/) led to the creation of Europe's borderless Schengen Area. The treaty was signed on 14 June 1985 by five of the ten member states of the then European Economic Community near the town of Schengen in Luxembourg but was not implemented (partially) until 1995. It proposed the gradual abolition of border checks at the signatories' common borders. Measures proposed included reduced speed vehicle checks which allowed vehicles to cross borders without stopping, allowing of residents in border areas freedom to cross borders away from fixed checkpoints and the harmonisation of visa policies.[1]

In 1990 the Agreement was supplemented by the Schengen Convention which proposed the abolition of internal border controls and a common visa policy. The Schengen Area operates very much like a single state for international travel purposes with external border controls for travellers entering and exiting the area, and common visas, but with no internal border controls. It currently consists of 26 European countries covering a population of over 400 million people and an area of 4,312,099 square kilometres (1,664,911 sq mi).[2]

Prior to 1999, the Schengen treaties and the rules adopted under them operated independently from the European Union; however, the Amsterdam Treaty incorporated them into European Union law, while providing opt-outs for the only two EU member states which had remained outside the Area: Ireland and the United Kingdom. Schengen is now a core part of EU law and all EU member states without an opt-out which have not already joined the Schengen Area are legally obliged to do so when technical requirements have been met. Several non-EU countries are also included in the area.

 


I live in Schengen borders. Those borders are for those in the EU - you know, people that by and large share a similar culture, religion and political ideology and systems.  Oh and they're on the same continent too. It's not to enable people from poor countries with vastly different cultures, customs and religions to flood in freely hoping to get their share of the good life pie. We're talking about migrants from Africa and middle east. These people have no right to a better life in the EU - they have a right to life which can be provided to them in Turkish and Jordanian camps. In fact it can be provided in many of the countries they stampede across looking for the best welfare state in Germany, Sweden and others. If you want your country to resemble any of the ones in the middle east and Africa go right ahead, but don't complain later.

But they are different countries. I thought people should stay in their own countries. The EU is a, and stick with me on this, a Union of countries.

I honestly, don't give a damn that you don't give a damn about people who are different from you. I'm not really concerned about your opinions.

Just pointing out the hypocracy and contradictions, you seem to ignore the fact that the EU, on the historical timescale, is a recent development. These very countries you talk about that share a similar culture and religion were fucking murdering each other half a century ago, and spent most of recorded history murdering each other as well.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
generic-user-1 said:

1.  iran has a islamic constitution, im realy sure, same goes for alot of other middleeastern countrys...

2. yeah, sure, its completly random that europe and the us made all those nice inventions and not well saudis.

3. swiss isnt allied to anybody

4. its totaly fine to attack somebody for his beliefs...

1. Iran is not Islam. Whether or not Iran has a constitution that entails Islam, like the US constitution entails bits and pieces of christianity, it is IRAN'S constitution, not the constitution of islam.

2. Holy shit...Hold on I have to compose myself for this one.

Enlightenment

3. Fine, the US are allies with Saudi Arabia, surely that counts for something.

4. Again holy shit...Im not debating on whether "Intolerance" is wrong, frankly I really don't see the need to in 2015, I'm saying religious intolerance, cultural intolerance, homophobia, xenophobia, and racism are all the same thing -> Intolerance, there is no distinction. Since you didn't touch on that, I'll assume you agree with that, even if you ""support it"".


1.the us constitution has nothing to do with christianity, thats why its so good.  god came way later into the constituion.

2. you mean humanism?

3. yeah well the us isnt the shining light of enlightenment they want to be.

4. no thats not all the same.   

religions are ideas, and its totaly fine to call people out for their beliefs, and judge em on the ideas they support.



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
contestgamer said:


I live in Schengen borders. Those borders are for those in the EU - you know, people that by and large share a similar culture, religion and political ideology and systems.  Oh and they're on the same continent too. It's not to enable people from poor countries with vastly different cultures, customs and religions to flood in freely hoping to get their share of the good life pie. We're talking about migrants from Africa and middle east. These people have no right to a better life in the EU - they have a right to life which can be provided to them in Turkish and Jordanian camps. In fact it can be provided in many of the countries they stampede across looking for the best welfare state in Germany, Sweden and others. If you want your country to resemble any of the ones in the middle east and Africa go right ahead, but don't complain later.

But they are different countries. I thought people should stay in their own countries. The EU is a, and stick with me on this, a Union of countries.

I honestly, don't give a damn that you don't give a damn about people who are different from you. I'm not really concerned about your opinions.

Just pointing out the hypocracy and contradictions, you seem to ignore the fact that the EU, on the historical timescale, is a recent development. These very countries you talk about that share a similar culture and religion were fucking murdering each other half a century ago, and spent most of recorded history murdering each other as well.


Do you believe in having borders?