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Forums - Politics Discussion - Syrian war continues...

Nice one!



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Augen said:
[...]


I think the US with NATO allies and Russia can work together on this.

I know people may hate the solution, but choices right now are
1. Dictatorship
2. Chaos
3. Long term occupation
We know we lack the desire and resources for 3 (ex: Iraq), so 1 is the best of bad choices right now.  We know we can team up and crush a force of ISIS scale in war fare. The issue is the aftermath.  As nice as democracy would be, it is a long road for many places that would take decades to achieve.  Some may call this cynical or cruel, but we've tolerated these kind of authoritarian states in the past.  I look at Iran and using diplomacy and trade as the blueprint to play the long game in the region, as opposed to disaster that was and continues to be Iraq.


There is a problem though. Dictatorship leads to Chaos. The opposition won't stop fighting the government just because the russians came. They will get enough support to continue the civil war for several years if not decades. The various forces in syria might even team up against the government and russia, leading to an full-blown war leaving nothing but burnt earth. Putin doesn't care enough nor does he have the fundings to plainly invade the whole country. With Assad, the country is going nowhere and the slaughtering of people in syria will continue. 

As it is right now, I'm afraid there just is no solution. No matter what you do, it just leads to more chaos. Kill off ISIS and some other group will follow. Al-Qaida is still alive and kicking for example. Trying to kill each and every enemy of the state of syria is an impossible task, especially when they are entering guerilla mode. 



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Gotta love how cold-blooded and powerful the Russian propaganda is when compared to the weak and ignorant Americans. Putin is toying with USA, commiting crimes in daylight, laughing in their faces, yet USA is helpless. It's perfect - 100% Russia style. Kudos, gotta respect a perfectly executed plan. The best thing is, so many people actually believe now that Putin is a "good guy" there. Gotta love it. Gotta love it. Now we just have to wait till Russia sends an even larger wave of immigrants to Europe, totally disorganising those Western fools, and in the mean time finishes the war in Ukraine. All pieces are falling together, the Empire of Evil is getting off its knees and the West is more pathetic and weak than ever.

Can't believe USA is no match for a country that's multiple times weaker than it is, but is led by a leader with balls. Where is Reagan when you need him...


To tell the truth, I'd love Turkey to finally start cleaning the Middle East up. Instead of picking on poor Kurds, they should finally get the whole reagion uder their boot - as it should be. Everyone would benefit from that. Or maybe the Jews should get that region in order? That would be more brutal though.

And no bullshit about any democracy over there. These people do not understand democracy and they do not want it. They need a strong leader that's gonna keep everyone firmly by the throat. A nation has to grow up and mature a lot for democracy. Unfortunately these people are just like the Russians in this aspect and aren't ready for it, so nobody should force it upon them.
Killing all those dictators was such a massive mistake...



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

OdinHades said:
Augen said:
[...]


I think the US with NATO allies and Russia can work together on this.

I know people may hate the solution, but choices right now are
1. Dictatorship
2. Chaos
3. Long term occupation
We know we lack the desire and resources for 3 (ex: Iraq), so 1 is the best of bad choices right now.  We know we can team up and crush a force of ISIS scale in war fare. The issue is the aftermath.  As nice as democracy would be, it is a long road for many places that would take decades to achieve.  Some may call this cynical or cruel, but we've tolerated these kind of authoritarian states in the past.  I look at Iran and using diplomacy and trade as the blueprint to play the long game in the region, as opposed to disaster that was and continues to be Iraq.


There is a problem though. Dictatorship leads to Chaos. The opposition won't stop fighting the government just because the russians came. They will get enough support to continue the civil war for several years if not decades. The various forces in syria might even team up against the government and russia, leading to an full-blown war leaving nothing but burnt earth. Putin doesn't care enough nor does he have the fundings to plainly invade the whole country. With Assad, the country is going nowhere and the slaughtering of people in syria will continue. 

As it is right now, I'm afraid there just is no solution. No matter what you do, it just leads to more chaos. Kill off ISIS and some other group will follow. Al-Qaida is still alive and kicking for example. Trying to kill each and every enemy of the state of syria is an impossible task, especially when they are entering guerilla mode. 

the golf arabs will cut their loses soon, they are realy struggling with the oil price, and paying ISIS isnt cheap.

and there will be no teaming up, al-quaida and ISIS realy hate each others guts and the other groups arent real factors(and never have been).

and killing all of isis/al-quaida isnt impossible. just carpetbomb their citys and camps till the people rise up againt them or just are tired of war.(worked for the us in iraq, in vietnam, in germany, in japan,etc).

they will stop supporting isis if they see that the higher power from the sky is named sukhoi and not allah.

 

and for the western and eastern jihadis, grad or buratino will do the job(they do so in iraq when used by the iran/iraq alliance)



Scisca said:
Gotta love how cold-blooded and powerful the Russian propaganda is when compared to the weak and ignorant Americans. Putin is toying with USA, commiting crimes in daylight, laughing in their faces, yet USA is helpless. It's perfect - 100% Russia style. Kudos, gotta respect a perfectly executed plan. The best thing is, so many people actually believe now that Putin is a "good guy" there. Gotta love it. Gotta love it. Now we just have to wait till Russia sends an even larger wave of immigrants to Europe, totally disorganising those Western fools, and in the mean time finishes the war in Ukraine. All pieces are falling together, the Empire of Evil is getting off its knees and the West is more pathetic and weak than ever.

Can't believe USA is no match for a country that's multiple times weaker than it is, but is led by a leader with balls. Where is Reagan when you need him...


To tell the truth, I'd love Turkey to finally start cleaning the Middle East up. Instead of picking on poor Kurds, they should finally get the whole reagion uder their boot - as it should be. Everyone would benefit from that. Or maybe the Jews should get that region in order? That would be more brutal though.

And no bullshit about any democracy over there. These people do not understand democracy and they do not want it. They need a strong leader that's gonna keep everyone firmly by the throat. A nation has to grow up and mature a lot for democracy. Unfortunately these people are just like the Russians in this aspect and aren't ready for it, so nobody should force it upon them.
Killing all those dictators was such a massive mistake...

Isn't that the brilliance of what Russia is doing? And truly who does this piss off more than anyone, the Saudis, who seriously get a free ride. 



 

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Just read a Time article stating Russia isn't using guided bombs on most of their strikes. Apparently, they state that Russia lags behind in guided bombs due to the collapse a few decades ago. I haven't watched any of the strike videos though. I just say good luck on killing just military targets. USA tends to create more enemies than kill with our previous and possibly current Middle East strategy. Might as well just send Russian ground troops and take back Syria for Assad.

http://time.com/4059442/russia-bombing-syria-isis-assad/



sethnintendo said:

Just read a Time article stating Russia isn't using guided bombs on most of their strikes. Apparently, they state that Russia lags behind in guided bombs due to the collapse a few decades ago. I haven't watched any of the strike videos though. I just say good luck on killing just military targets. USA tends to create more enemies than kill with our previous and possibly current Middle East strategy. Might as well just send Russian ground troops and take back Syria for Assad.

http://time.com/4059442/russia-bombing-syria-isis-assad/

KAB-500 is a guided bomb and has been spotted multiple times at the theatre of action, further read:
http://rectaline.livejournal.com/1270.html (not official, of course)

US are not interested in resloving the situation atm.



mai said:
sethnintendo said:

Just read a Time article stating Russia isn't using guided bombs on most of their strikes. Apparently, they state that Russia lags behind in guided bombs due to the collapse a few decades ago. I haven't watched any of the strike videos though. I just say good luck on killing just military targets. USA tends to create more enemies than kill with our previous and possibly current Middle East strategy. Might as well just send Russian ground troops and take back Syria for Assad.

http://time.com/4059442/russia-bombing-syria-isis-assad/

KAB-500 is a guided bomb and has been spotted multiple times at the theatre of action, further read:
http://rectaline.livejournal.com/1270.html (not official, of course)

US are not interested in resloving the situation atm.

Nope we are just adding to the mess.  We are now butthurt that our CIA backed rebels are getting hit.  I'd rather just see this mess over with and Russia might as well help even more.  Removing dictators in Middle East doesn't seem to work out.



sethnintendo said:
mai said:
sethnintendo said:

Just read a Time article stating Russia isn't using guided bombs on most of their strikes. Apparently, they state that Russia lags behind in guided bombs due to the collapse a few decades ago. I haven't watched any of the strike videos though. I just say good luck on killing just military targets. USA tends to create more enemies than kill with our previous and possibly current Middle East strategy. Might as well just send Russian ground troops and take back Syria for Assad.

http://time.com/4059442/russia-bombing-syria-isis-assad/

KAB-500 is a guided bomb and has been spotted multiple times at the theatre of action, further read:
http://rectaline.livejournal.com/1270.html (not official, of course)

US are not interested in resloving the situation atm.

Nope we are just adding to the mess.  We are now butthurt that our CIA backed rebels are getting hit.  I'd rather just see this mess over with and Russia might as well help even more.  Removing dictators in Middle East doesn't seem to work out.

It's for the show. Decision makers within the political beaumonde of yours are not interested in the removing dictators or whoever, architects of the Arab Spring are intersted in the mess itself.



sethnintendo said:

Nope we are just adding to the mess.  We are now butthurt that our CIA backed rebels are getting hit.  I'd rather just see this mess over with and Russia might as well help even more.  Removing dictators in Middle East doesn't seem to work out.


Dude, don't let yourself get fooled. Russia isn't helping anyone over there. In fact - they aren't helping anyone, period. They have a strict policy of caring only about themselves and their interests and never compromise it.

The situation in Syria is a mess, but some things are quite obvious.

IS in Syria was created and backed up by the regime, all the way back when Hussain was still alive in Iraq. They wanted to have Muslim units to confront the Kurds. After the US invasion in Iraq, the BAAS party was delegalized, so they went undergroud and started resistence - and it just happened to be the same party that ruled in Syria. For years they've been rectruiting people in Syria to help jihadists in Iraq - all this was going on with the permission of the Syrian regime and under control of their inteligence agencies and secret service.

Moreover, Assad released islamists from the prison in Sednaya and let them take over oil fields and military bases. Soldiers were dying, but they were Sunnites, so nobody cared. Islamists got whole bases full of weapons. The important thing is that all this wasn't a master plan of Assad. It was really all designed by Russia and Iran and their military specialists and there were even documents proving that found by the opposition. Assad is and has always been nothing more but a Russian puppet.

Currently we have:
Syrian regime bombing civilians.
US bombing IS.
Russia bombing anti-regime opposition.
Turkey bombing Kurds.

Who cares about Syrians? Nobody! Nobody gives a damn about them. The closest would probably be the US, but they are so incompetent, it hurts. Still, it's mainly a struggle for power over the region, not for the people of Syria.

And again is Russia helping? Hell no!! They are just adding oil to the fire. They are only there to secure their foothold in the region. They only care about their own interests, not about Syrians, and the thing is that Syria is the only country in the Middle East they can control. Learn it by heart and never forget - Russia doesn't give a single f*** about anyone, especially civilians, even their own. That's what makes them so dangerous. It's against their nature to help anyone, they always follow their agenda, which is never good for civilised Western people.

And what is it all leading to? In my opinion to an all out massive war in the Middle East. Russia is doing its uttmost to strenghten its position in the region, but guess what - Turkey isn't going to just stand pat and look as Russia gains control over Syria right at the Turkish doorstep. Hell no! They will react and challenge Russia - and this will only lead to further bloodshed in Syria.

And in Europe we are guaranteed to have a series of terrorist attacks coming. But this won't really be IS, these attacks will also be truely inspired and designed by Russian secret service. They will cause more and more havoc in the Middle East nad Europe, using IS as their cover ,and nobody will even notice as they advance in Ukraine, later on maybe take on the Baltics as well, possibly even Poland and Finland later on? Doesn't really matter, these are actually details, cause Putin's main goal is clear - he wants Russia to return to the position of a superpower, totally dominating Europe.

 

And all that while at the same time having their propaganda actually convince many, many people that they are helping Syrians in the Middle East and are the good guys cleaning up the mess after the Americans... Just... Perfect... Flawless...

The thing - don't let them fool you. They are bastard evil to the core and they never, NEVER help anyone and their intentions are always bad news for us.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.