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Forums - Sales Discussion - The Reason Why Nintendo Can't Get 3rd Party Games

Soundwave said:

Nintendo can get third party games. Even the Wii U was getting a fair amount before it became obvious about 4-5 months in that it wasn't going to be some kind of sales hit.

The bigger issue is audience. They can't get the audience for those games. They've become far too closely associated as a kids and casual brand for too long that they MS and Sony can just dominate them for mindshare among the people that buy the big ticket third party titles.

They haven't had a blockbuster game for the 16-35 year old demographic since GoldenEye ... that's 18 whopping years ago. And I mean some of that is Nintendo's fault, they have all the money and resources in the world to at least make one IP that is a big gun with older male consumers, but they choose not to go after that and when they do they go with very niche ideas like Fatal Frame. 

Nintendo's Japanese division domiantes the entire company since Iwata took over, so that it's painfully easy for Sony/MS to walk all over them in the West too. 


The remedy is to woo the third party over to them before they launch the console. The NX has the best shot at this at best.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
Soundwave said:

Nintendo can get third party games. Even the Wii U was getting a fair amount before it became obvious about 4-5 months in that it wasn't going to be some kind of sales hit.

The bigger issue is audience. They can't get the audience for those games. They've become far too closely associated as a kids and casual brand for too long that they MS and Sony can just dominate them for mindshare among the people that buy the big ticket third party titles.

They haven't had a blockbuster game for the 16-35 year old demographic since GoldenEye ... that's 18 whopping years ago. And I mean some of that is Nintendo's fault, they have all the money and resources in the world to at least make one IP that is a big gun with older male consumers, but they choose not to go after that and when they do they go with very niche ideas like Fatal Frame. 

Nintendo's Japanese division domiantes the entire company since Iwata took over, so that it's painfully easy for Sony/MS to walk all over them in the West too. 


The remedy is to woo the third party over to them before they launch the console. The NX has the best shot at this at best.


It's too late now I think. They had maybe a window there a few years ago because the PS3/360 gen was going too long where they could've struck quickly with a more powerful machine and maybe taken advantage of a 1 year headstart, but now no one is really clamouring for a third me-too console. 

They could go the up-power route the problem with that is you need a ton more power going forward to make it noticable over the PS4 (diminshing returns). That and the hardware would be expensive and the game development would be monumentally expensive. 

To be honest do we really need three platform makers doing the exact same thing? If you like what Sony and MS does, then buy a Sony or MS console. It's not like we're lacking for choice here. I'm not saying I wouldn't appreciate a more powerful hardware, but I don't know if there really is a market for another console like that. 

Even if Nintendo did that, they are so closely associated with being a family/kids/casual brand that they wouldn't have the credibility to really say to core gamers "hey don't buy that PS4, buy our new Nintendo instead". 



Soundwave said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The remedy is to woo the third party over to them before they launch the console. The NX has the best shot at this at best.


It's too late now I think. They had maybe a window there a few years ago because the PS3/360 gen was going too long where they could've struck quickly with a more powerful machine and maybe taken advantage of a 1 year headstart, but now no one is really clamouring for a third me-too console. 

They could go the up-power route the problem with that is you need a ton more power going forward to make it noticable over the PS4 (diminshing returns). That and the hardware would be expensive and the game development would be monumentally expensive. 

To be honest do we really need three platform makers doing the exact same thing? If you like what Sony and MS does, then buy a Sony or MS console. It's not like we're lacking for choice here. I'm not saying I wouldn't appreciate a more powerful hardware, but I don't know if there really is a market for another console like that. 

Even if Nintendo did that, they are so closely associated with being a family/kids/casual brand that they wouldn't have the credibility to really say to core gamers "hey don't buy that PS4, buy our new Nintendo instead". 


Its not exactly too late. Nintendo could release the NX just in time to gather some multiplat gamers from last gen if they launch in the 2016-2017 region when the majority tend to start coming. Remember, this gen is still growing. If Nintendo can get the third parties to look at them as an option for their next console they will have a better launch. The Wii U was created despite third party's existence. Nintendo never really talked to them about the console, so in the end they would've had to demand downports when third parties had already had enough of Nintendo antisocial games. The NX wont be the most powerful console, but I'll bet it will be within perameters for the devs to be happy. 



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Soundwave said:


It's too late now I think. They had maybe a window there a few years ago because the PS3/360 gen was going too long where they could've struck quickly with a more powerful machine and maybe taken advantage of a 1 year headstart, but now no one is really clamouring for a third me-too console. 

They could go the up-power route the problem with that is you need a ton more power going forward to make it noticable over the PS4 (diminshing returns). That and the hardware would be expensive and the game development would be monumentally expensive. 

To be honest do we really need three platform makers doing the exact same thing? If you like what Sony and MS does, then buy a Sony or MS console. It's not like we're lacking for choice here. I'm not saying I wouldn't appreciate a more powerful hardware, but I don't know if there really is a market for another console like that. 

Even if Nintendo did that, they are so closely associated with being a family/kids/casual brand that they wouldn't have the credibility to really say to core gamers "hey don't buy that PS4, buy our new Nintendo instead". 


Its not exactly too late. Nintendo could release the NX just in time to gather some multiplat gamers from last gen if they launch in the 2016-2017 region when the majority tend to start coming. Remember, this gen is still growing. If Nintendo can get the third parties to look at them as an option for their next console they will have a better launch. The Wii U was created despite third party's existence. Nintendo never really talked to them about the console, so in the end they would've had to demand downports when third parties had already had enough of Nintendo antisocial games. The NX wont be the most powerful console, but I'll bet it will be within perameters for the devs to be happy. 

It's too late to create a PS4-level machine. 

They would have to go to somewhere in the range of 3 TFLOPS + 12GB RAM minimum (*minimum*) at this stage, and even that probably wouldn't be enough. 

The PS2 routed the XBox even though the XBox was a good deal more powerful and that was only an 18 month headstart. 

Beyond that Nintendo has the brand problem of being associated with rainbows and bright green hills, the guy who wants to play Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto likely isn't sitting around dying for a Nintendo version of the Playstation. 



oniyide said:
IamAwsome said:

To be fair it's not Iwata and Reggie's fault that third parties, particularly EA, promised support and bailed before the system launched, while continuing to support the PS3 and 360. Sales became a legit reason to not support the console after 2013, but what about launch up to that point? 

the launch games bombed.

How many of those launch games were actually good? EA's only half-decent game on Wii U was NfS, it was released something like 5 months late on the Wii U, and EA had announced they were ceasing support for the system before it released.

What people always ignore when making these threads is that people aren't going to buy inferior games. They also aren't going to wait 6 months for a game that releases everywhere else without the delay.

The only Wii U games rated over 90 on metacritic that aren't first party are Rayman Legends (sold best, or at least equal-best, on Wii U, despite Ubisoft's shenanigans) and Guacamelee! Super Turbo Championship Edition (an eShop title that had released for PS3 and PSV more than a year earlier, and for PC a little less than a year earlier). Close to 90 (but not eShop-only, thus without sales data) includes Skylanders Swap Force (also available for Wii, so people aren't likely to upgrade for it), Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut (two-years-late port), Need for Speed: Most Wanted U (delayed as mentioned above, and EA had already ceased support for the platform when they released it), Mass Effect 3: Special Edition (rated 85... PS3/360 version was rated 93, PC version was rated 89, ME Trilogy was released around the same time containing this game plus the two before it for PS3/360/PC, and the game was 9 months late on Wii U)...

This brings us to the first game that rated comparably and released at least close to the original (less than a month delay) - Assassin's Creed 3. See if you can find a single sign of AC3 being advertised for Wii U. All of the advertising I can find shows only PS3 and 360 (here's the "available on" part of the launch TV commercial) .

Then NBA 2K13 was rated lower than the PS3/360 versions by a significant amount, Darksiders II was three months late, Batman: Arkham City - Armored Edition was a year late, Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Wii U Edition was more than two months late and still managed to sell about half as well as the 360 version, and I think you're starting to get the idea.

The ONLY notable, decent-quality Wii U multiplatform retail title that released day-and-date with the other versions, with decent advertising including the Wii U version, sold well on the Wii U (relative to the other versions). And *that* was a game that was meant to be a Wii U exclusive before being delayed 7 months with the publisher specifically saying it was so that other systems could get the game at the same time, thus moving the release from right in the middle of a drought (and thus getting all of the attention squarely on it) to a release right in the middle of the time when Nintendo was releasing all its big titles. And even the developers themselves thought the publisher's decision to delay the title was bullshit.

Third parties can't put out half-arsed efforts, and then expect spectacular sales.



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Soundwave said:

It's too late to create a PS4-level machine. 

They would have to go to somewhere in the range of 3 TFLOPS + 12GB RAM minimum (*minimum*) at this stage, and even that probably wouldn't be enough. 

The PS2 routed the XBox even though the XBox was a good deal more powerful and that was only an 18 month headstart. 

Beyond that Nintendo has the brand problem of being associated with rainbows and bright green hills, the guy who wants to play Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto likely isn't sitting around dying for a Nintendo version of the Playstation. 

No. Devs only demanded 8GB of ram and Nintendo could opt to range themselves within a mid range PC in power. The PS4 and XBox One were developed to be around a PC that could handle high level PC settings rather than Ultra. Nintendo could sell a $350 console at medium level graphics on a PC.



Aielyn said:
oniyide said:
IamAwsome said:

To be fair it's not Iwata and Reggie's fault that third parties, particularly EA, promised support and bailed before the system launched, while continuing to support the PS3 and 360. Sales became a legit reason to not support the console after 2013, but what about launch up to that point? 

the launch games bombed.

How many of those launch games were actually good? EA's only half-decent game on Wii U was NfS, it was released something like 5 months late on the Wii U, and EA had announced they were ceasing support for the system before it released.

What people always ignore when making these threads is that people aren't going to buy inferior games. They also aren't going to wait 6 months for a game that releases everywhere else without the delay.

The only Wii U games rated over 90 on metacritic that aren't first party are Rayman Legends (sold best, or at least equal-best, on Wii U, despite Ubisoft's shenanigans) and Guacamelee! Super Turbo Championship Edition (an eShop title that had released for PS3 and PSV more than a year earlier, and for PC a little less than a year earlier). Close to 90 (but not eShop-only, thus without sales data) includes Skylanders Swap Force (also available for Wii, so people aren't likely to upgrade for it), Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut (two-years-late port), Need for Speed: Most Wanted U (delayed as mentioned above, and EA had already ceased support for the platform when they released it), Mass Effect 3: Special Edition (rated 85... PS3/360 version was rated 93, PC version was rated 89, ME Trilogy was released around the same time containing this game plus the two before it for PS3/360/PC, and the game was 9 months late on Wii U)...

This brings us to the first game that rated comparably and released at least close to the original (less than a month delay) - Assassin's Creed 3. See if you can find a single sign of AC3 being advertised for Wii U. All of the advertising I can find shows only PS3 and 360 (here's the "available on" part of the launch TV commercial) .

Then NBA 2K13 was rated lower than the PS3/360 versions by a significant amount, Darksiders II was three months late, Batman: Arkham City - Armored Edition was a year late, Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Wii U Edition was more than two months late and still managed to sell about half as well as the 360 version, and I think you're starting to get the idea.

The ONLY notable, decent-quality Wii U multiplatform retail title that released day-and-date with the other versions, with decent advertising including the Wii U version, sold well on the Wii U (relative to the other versions). And *that* was a game that was meant to be a Wii U exclusive before being delayed 7 months with the publisher specifically saying it was so that other systems could get the game at the same time, thus moving the release from right in the middle of a drought (and thus getting all of the attention squarely on it) to a release right in the middle of the time when Nintendo was releasing all its big titles. And even the developers themselves thought the publisher's decision to delay the title was bullshit.

Third parties can't put out half-arsed efforts, and then expect spectacular sales.


Lots of crappy games sell all the time, the XBox One has plenty of bad/poor 3rd party ports that crush 1-2 million no problem. PS2 routinely had the worst versions of many multiplats. 

Nintendo simply doesn't have the audience for these games in the first place. They allowed Sony/MS to basically consolidate the entire audience for games like Batman, Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, Madden NFL, etc. etc. a long time ago. 

If Assassin's Creed on Wii ran at 5-6 extra fps it wouldn't have sold like double the copies. 

Nintendo hasn't been relevant to the "I don't give a sh*t about Mario or Link, what else you got?" core gamer crowd in a core gaming sense since probably GoldenEye. And that's 18 years ago. I remember I had a couple of friends that bought an N64 basically just because of GoldenEye and wrestling games, they didn't give two farts about Mario 64 or Zelda: OoT. 



Aielyn said:
oniyide said:

the launch games bombed.

How many of those launch games were actually good? EA's only half-decent game on Wii U was NfS, it was released something like 5 months late on the Wii U, and EA had announced they were ceasing support for the system before it released.

What people always ignore when making these threads is that people aren't going to buy inferior games. They also aren't going to wait 6 months for a game that releases everywhere else without the delay.

The only Wii U games rated over 90 on metacritic that aren't first party are Rayman Legends (sold best, or at least equal-best, on Wii U, despite Ubisoft's shenanigans) and Guacamelee! Super Turbo Championship Edition (an eShop title that had released for PS3 and PSV more than a year earlier, and for PC a little less than a year earlier). Close to 90 (but not eShop-only, thus without sales data) includes Skylanders Swap Force (also available for Wii, so people aren't likely to upgrade for it), Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut (two-years-late port), Need for Speed: Most Wanted U (delayed as mentioned above, and EA had already ceased support for the platform when they released it), Mass Effect 3: Special Edition (rated 85... PS3/360 version was rated 93, PC version was rated 89, ME Trilogy was released around the same time containing this game plus the two before it for PS3/360/PC, and the game was 9 months late on Wii U)...

This brings us to the first game that rated comparably and released at least close to the original (less than a month delay) - Assassin's Creed 3. See if you can find a single sign of AC3 being advertised for Wii U. All of the advertising I can find shows only PS3 and 360 (here's the "available on" part of the launch TV commercial) .

Then NBA 2K13 was rated lower than the PS3/360 versions by a significant amount, Darksiders II was three months late, Batman: Arkham City - Armored Edition was a year late, Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Wii U Edition was more than two months late and still managed to sell about half as well as the 360 version, and I think you're starting to get the idea.

The ONLY notable, decent-quality Wii U multiplatform retail title that released day-and-date with the other versions, with decent advertising including the Wii U version, sold well on the Wii U (relative to the other versions). And *that* was a game that was meant to be a Wii U exclusive before being delayed 7 months with the publisher specifically saying it was so that other systems could get the game at the same time, thus moving the release from right in the middle of a drought (and thus getting all of the attention squarely on it) to a release right in the middle of the time when Nintendo was releasing all its big titles. And even the developers themselves thought the publisher's decision to delay the title was bullshit.

Third parties can't put out half-arsed efforts, and then expect spectacular sales.

The classic third parties never tried argument. What more do you want? Wii u got a semi decent launch exclusive "zombiu", definitive ports of games (nfs, darksiders, Rayman legends), new ip only on wii u (lego city undercover, wonderful 101), and a full blown partnership game that went on to achieve game of the year awards (bayonetta 2). I can understand if some of these attempts didn't do well, but literally all of them were flops, and none went on to go beyond 1 million sales, while mario kart single handidly claims 50% attachment rate. This problem goes far far beyond "third parties never tried," and even if that was the case, it's Nintendo's job as a console maker to make third parties try harder. You can't tell me that the wii u missing Gta V, Destiny, and other insanely big titles has nothing to do with Nintendo



oniyide said:
Cobretti2 said:

The problem is my fellow bretheran nit pick every little problem. For example AC IV was "oh frame rate is shit" when in reailty it just dipped a few times because of hardware restrictions. No worst that on PS360. Hell the PS4 version even had frame rate issues. BUt nothing major that prevents you from playing the game.

Majorly broken unplayable games and gimp games I can understand but these happen on all consoles. Sadly gamers on other consoles will go out and buy them too hnece some devs think they can just release shit and ty to patch it later.

Those are just excuses that people use to justify the crap sales of the games. Heres the thing how many of those 9mil plus WIi U owners ONLY own a WIi U? ANd i mean just a Wii U no PC nonsense. Hell how many on this site? i would reckon 2? 3mil tops? With everyone else buying those 3rd party games on systems they already have.

agreed and justifications why they didn't buy it lol.

even with three million single console oweners a great game deserves 1million sales. considering the Wii U has a drought atm so they can't say they got nothig to play unless they played those games.



 

 

IkePoR said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


Sony wasnt humbled. They took the dive with the PS3 to save Blu Ray. It was a planned suicide mission in which they knew they would financially be bleeding.

Interesting theory.  Never heard it before but it sounds plausible.

Sony had no choice they lost ground on all their previous format wars to other technologies

Betamax to VHS

Walkman to Compact Disc

Mini Disc to MP3 players

 

HD DVD was goign to steam role then Sony did the PS3 and even then almost lost. Last hour they paid  one of the bif studios (forgot which) to become bluray exclusive and all other tudios followed