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Forums - General Discussion - The Debate About Religion Topic

 

Has this topic influenced you at all?

I was a non-believer, and... 2 12.50%
 
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I was a non-believer, but... 0 0%
 
I was a non-believer, but now I believe. 3 18.75%
 
I was a believer, and now I don't believe. 1 6.25%
 
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Total:16
Esiar said:
JWeinCom said:


Well, that would be wrong.  Judaism existed before Christianity.  It didn't arise once they rejected Jesus' claims of being the Messiah. 

From a Christian perspective: If someone who says they believe Judaism really believes it, they will accept Jesus as Christ, because Jesus said that if you truly believe Moses, you would believe him, because Moses wrote of him. So, the people who reject/ed Jesus don't truly believe in Judaism, because they are rejecting the prophecies of the prophets sent by God. So, non-messianic Judaism, from a Christian stand-point, is an offshoot of the real Judaism. Jesus completed the law and the prophets, so Christianity would be the complete Judaism.

And from an objective perspective, Judaism preceeded Christianity.  I think Jews would probably disagree with your assessment, so in this case I think the neutral perspective makes more sense.  



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spurgeonryan said:
Do you find Satanism moral?
Let's just say modern day Christianity, and lets leave out the sacrifices of the past.

But you sort of answered. You think humans would be much more "morally" stabile had religion never existed. Heck! Many wars in the past and even now days are because of religion! Or would humans find something else to fight about?

To answer your question, no, I do not find Satanism immoral. As long as it does not include human sacrifice;) But, and little does it matter to athiest or Satanist, I think they'l go to hell.


I don't know a whole lot about satanism so I don't know how moral I find it.  

I'm sure there would be wars, with or without religion.  But, I think that the idea that morals are set in stone, as most religions advocate, prevents our morals from growing with the times and with our knowledge.  



Jews definitely came before Christians. Jesus the man was a Jew. The Last Supper was a Seder meal. Christianity became it's own religion because unlike Judaism, Jesus believed in accepting all followers; whether they were Jews or not; and taught different things. Paul spread the religion throughout Northern Africa.



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ReimTime said:
Jews definitely came before Christians. Jesus the man was a Jew. The Last Supper was a Seder meal. Christianity became it's own religion because unlike Judaism, Jesus believed in accepting all followers; whether they were Jews or not; and taught different things. Paul spread the religion throughout Northern Africa.


Yeah.  To add, I think we should allow Jews to define Judaism, and Christians to define Christianity and so on.  Judging one religion from another's perspective is a bad thing.  If we judged Christians from the Jewish standard, they'd simply be Jews who had been deceived.



JWeinCom said:
Esiar said:

From a Christian perspective: If someone who says they believe Judaism really believes it, they will accept Jesus as Christ, because Jesus said that if you truly believe Moses, you would believe him, because Moses wrote of him. So, the people who reject/ed Jesus don't truly believe in Judaism, because they are rejecting the prophecies of the prophets sent by God. So, non-messianic Judaism, from a Christian stand-point, is an offshoot of the real Judaism. Jesus completed the law and the prophets, so Christianity would be the complete Judaism.

And from an objective perspective, Judaism preceeded Christianity.  I think Jews would probably disagree with your assessment, so in this case I think the neutral perspective makes more sense.  

They would definitely disagree. They would say that Jesus never fulfilled the prophecies, and that Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism (and the secular perspective is similar to this). But again, what I said is just the Christian perspective. Islam has a different perspective: What I usually hear is that being that Judaism and Christianity are offshoot's of Islam. The prophets before Jesus taught Islam, and men corrupted their words and that turned into Judaism, and Jesus came and taught Islam, coming with the Gospel. and they tried to kill him, but God saved him, and everyone was decieved to believe he was crucified, which lead to Christianity, the corruption of the Gospel, and Paul the Apostle coming up, etc., and that Muhammad brought the restoration of what the prophets before him truly taught.

A Christian isn't going to agree with that, but it's what Muslims believe (Unless they don't believe that; If there's a Muslim here who wants to correct me, they can if they want to of course).



Can't wait for The Zelder Scrolls 3: Breath of The Wild Hunt!

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Esiar said:
JWeinCom said:

And from an objective perspective, Judaism preceeded Christianity.  I think Jews would probably disagree with your assessment, so in this case I think the neutral perspective makes more sense.  

They would definitely disagree. They would say that Jesus never fulfilled the prophecies, and that Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism (and the secular perspective is similar to this). But again, what I said is just the Christian perspective. Islam has a different perspective: What I usually hear is that being that Judaism and Christianity are offshoot's of Islam. The prophets before Jesus taught Islam, and men corrupted their words and that turned into Judaism, and Jesus came and taught Islam, coming with the Gospel. and they tried to kill him, but God saved him, and everyone was decieved to believe he was crucified, which lead to Christianity, the corruption of the Gospel, and Paul the Apostle coming up, etc., and that Muhammad brought the restoration of what the prophets before him truly taught.

A Christian isn't going to agree with that, but it's what Muslims believe (Unless they don't believe that; If there's a Muslim here who wants to correct me, they can if they want to of course).

Yeah I mean. As an atheist, I kind of don't feel like the distinction is necessary.  However, I will say that each religion should be defined by their believers.  I don't think that Christians should define Jews, Jews should define Christians, or Hindus should define Buddhists.  



I'm not an atheist nor am I religous. I'm open minded to all possiblies but I believe that some are unlikely. I like to read or do some religous research when my interest is peaked or when I'm looking for ammo in religious debates. Honestly, though I haven't done that in ages.

I believe there's likely some godlike being(s) out there doing whatever they/it wants for self-fulfillment. Humans are the ones that made up all of these rules, procedures, rituals, ect and not the godlike being(s). It's what they build their religion around.  

I also believe that organised religion overall is bad especially when it's involved in politics.  I rather people treat their religion more as a personal belief and talk amoungst other believers in private. Governments should leave them be and protect their rights. Also, religions shouldn't try to force others outside of their religion to live as they do. 

 

 

 

 

 

 



JWeinCom said:
ReimTime said:
Jews definitely came before Christians. Jesus the man was a Jew. The Last Supper was a Seder meal. Christianity became it's own religion because unlike Judaism, Jesus believed in accepting all followers; whether they were Jews or not; and taught different things. Paul spread the religion throughout Northern Africa.


Yeah.  To add, I think we should allow Jews to define Judaism, and Christians to define Christianity and so on.  Judging one religion from another's perspective is a bad thing.  If we judged Christians from the Jewish standard, they'd simply be Jews who had been deceived.


Eh it's a tough subject because Judaism, Chiristianity, and Islam are such broad terms. Under Christianity there is Mormonism, Eastern Orthodox, Protestantism, Roman Catholic etc. Judaism has an even bigger split because there are hardcore Jews who follow the Torah to a tee and there are Conservative Jews who do not believe it is the word of God (Ex: cutting hair on temples vs leaving it). Islam has bigger splits still (leaders have to be descendants of Muhammad, and are divine figures who cannot make mistakes (Shi'a) vs leaders who can any member of Muhammad's tribe, are human beings that make mistakes (Sunni).

To answer Esiar's comment: false. Judaism existed before Islam. When Muhammad was driven out of Mecca (his main protection died and enemies came after him) he sought refuge amongst the Jews in Medina. They got along quite well, actually.

*edit* whoops I misunderstood what you meant by others defining a religion. Ignore first paragraph, unless you want to learn about splits in faith haha



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JWeinCom said:
Esiar said:

They would definitely disagree. They would say that Jesus never fulfilled the prophecies, and that Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism (and the secular perspective is similar to this). But again, what I said is just the Christian perspective. Islam has a different perspective: What I usually hear is that being that Judaism and Christianity are offshoot's of Islam. The prophets before Jesus taught Islam, and men corrupted their words and that turned into Judaism, and Jesus came and taught Islam, coming with the Gospel. and they tried to kill him, but God saved him, and everyone was decieved to believe he was crucified, which lead to Christianity, the corruption of the Gospel, and Paul the Apostle coming up, etc., and that Muhammad brought the restoration of what the prophets before him truly taught.

A Christian isn't going to agree with that, but it's what Muslims believe (Unless they don't believe that; If there's a Muslim here who wants to correct me, they can if they want to of course).

Yeah I mean. As an atheist, I kind of don't feel like the distinction is necessary.  However, I will say that each religion should be defined by their believers.  I don't think that Christians should define Jews, Jews should define Christians, or Hindus should define Buddhists.  

Same goes for denominations, since religions can be broard like ReimTime said. The beliefs of Catholics do not represent the whole of Christianity.

And in responce to ReimTime: From a secular/historical stand-point you're right about Judaism preceeding Islam. Also in a Christian and Jewish persceptive. I was just showing that Muslims have a different view-point.



Can't wait for The Zelder Scrolls 3: Breath of The Wild Hunt!

True^^^^



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