Aura7541 said:
BMaker11 said:
I didn't move the goal post at all. And I never said an exclusive deal would never happen. This issue you brought up was about buying 3rd party exclusivity (read: not exactly the same as striking up a deal). I gave a reasonable explanation as to why the TR situation wasn't "buying exclusivity" but very well was a voluntary agreement, based on the circumstances. You make fun of "OMG so dominant", yet the COO, himself, pretty much said "we partnered with them because OMG so dominant". You think Tekken was exclusive because Sony bought it out? How about MGS1? Or did it actually make more sense because the PS1 was "OMG so dominant", as you so put it; or because it had better hardware (that was explicitly the case for FF7, which I keep referring to) than the competitors?
And the fact that there exists a deal doesn't mean anything, by its lonesome. You took issue with the comment of buying exclusivity, and you have yet to prove that Sony did such a thing. Sony has a "deal" with FFXIV, but they didn't buy exclusivity for it, for example. You're sticking to Tomb Raider, not because "you don't need to find any other examples" but rather because you can't find any other examples, and TR was the closest thing you could find that closely resembles the point you're trying to refute. Too bad I actually read the article instead of just the headline.
So, again, the point still stands that SFV (and every iteration of it) being exclusive is nothing people can whine about, since "Microsoft started it", per se.
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I read the Tomb Raider article and it's difficult to decide what kind of interpretation people should take since... well, it's PR. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony did moneyhat TR for the PS1 considering the company's dominant position at that time. I also would not be surprised the other way because of the CD-ROM format as McGarvey mentioned. The cartridges on the N64 were really expensive and weren't the best media format to work with. At this point, it's quite silly to argue whether Sony moneyhatted TR or not as that article didn't really show anything conclusive. However, that is not to say Sony is clean. All companies have done this because it's business at the end of the day.
FFXIV is only on the PS4 and PC because of Microsoft's "no cross-platform play" clause. This clause also played a role in SFV's console exclusivity on the PS4 as part of the deal included cross-platform play between PC and PS4 gamers. Hopefully, part of Phil Spencer's rectification plan is to get rid of that clause altogether.
What I'm curious to know is what was Microsoft doing while Sony and Capcom agreed to a deal on SFV. Was the deal done with MS unaware? Perhaps Ono wanted to make SFV for all systems and implement cross-platform play across all versions, but MS said no. Whatever it is, we may not know the whole story until years later...
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@bolded: this is why I said the situation was dubious, at best (although, market dominance would negate the need of moneyhatting, since it was the de facto console of choice), and requested another example. But "the deal exists, therefore I don't need other examples". Even though "deal" doesn't necessarily mean "paid for it", the latter of which is the reason this whole discussion even came up. Not to mention, the Saturn was discontinued in 1998, so it was obviously on the decline in 1997, so no way it would have been put on that console, anyway. And, as you pointed out, N64 had cartridges, so, again, PS1 had better hardware for this game. 2 more points that lend more credibility to the POV I take on the exclusivity of the game.
I won't say Sony hasn't moneyhatted before. I just can't think of any games before Gen 7, and I just want a legitimate example, otherwise, there shouldn't be any contention to the comment "Microsoft started this 3rd party exclusivity crap". The Capcom 5 was a "deal" between Nintendo and Capcom, but Capcom did it voluntarily to boost GC sales and show the world that the GC had 3rd party support. That just goes to show that the reasoning behind signing exclusivity deals (although Capcom backed out of it because of shareholders) isn't always "they gave us a bunch of money". There can be other motives, as the COO in TRs case even said.
With regard to what MS was doing: didn't Ono say they didn't have money to make SFV? If that's the case, I see the situation being very similar to what MS did with Titanfall - the developer didn't have the resources necessary to complete the game so Sony/MS stepped in. If cross-platform play is a dealbreaker, then obviously Sony would be the ones to jump on it since MS doesn't like that feature.