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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo Fans Vs. Third-Party Developers & Entitlement

DonFerrari on 27 May 2015
Soundwave said:
DonFerrari said:

Maybe. Funny enough MS fans do the same this gen, gimped version, lacking feature or DLC. Maybe only Nintendo fans are smart.

 

Or the alternative, most people don't even know which version is best, or if it's late or lacking content. They see trailer, add, preview and buy the game. Nintendo fans don't do it because they either like 3rd parties and so have other console to buy they there Or don't care at all and wouldn't buy anyway. You can't say you really like 3rd parties and just buy Nintendo hw, so they are valid scenarios validated by Iwata.

 

Are Nintendo fans the only smart ones fighting all the evil 3rd party companies.


Nintendo fans aren't some sinuglar monolithic group. Many of us do play third party games ... we just opt to play them on the Playstation or XBox that have in addition to our Nintendo console. The actual number of Nintendo fans who alter their buying patterns based on some kind of internet vendetta is probably less than 1% I would say. Don't confuse a group of people making a lot of noise on an internet message board for an actual majority. 

I do agree with you, as I said a possibility is that they have multiple consoles, other is that the ones that buy only Nintendo hw aren't very much interested in 3rd parties not sponsored by Nintendo (like you said, probably a minority). But the least possible is that only Nintendo fans avoid gimped games or mobilize to not buy from disrespectfull 3rd parties.



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zorg1000 on 27 May 2015
Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:


There is more than just 13-35 year old males that enjoy games. Kids, females, parents, these are types of gamers Nintendo should heavily invest in.

Of course that doesn't mean Nintendo should completely ignore teenage/adult males but they shouldn't be the main focus, there should be a healthy mix of support for all types of demographics. Nintendo should continue and increase what they have done with games like Bayonetta 2, Fatal Frame V, Devil's Third while expanding on that and get some more western focused titles thrown in the mix.

The problem with this is none of the games you've listed enter into the type of mass market sweet spot I'm talking about. 

You don't want to have a game that will just automatically be ignored by 13-35 year old males either, because the audience base for just a kids game can be limited. Beyond that kids themselves often don't want a game that looks like its tailor made for them. The avergae 11 year old would probably rather play Call of Duty rather than Yoshi's Wooly World or even Splatoon. They don't want the game that looks like it's "mom approved". 

Bayonetta 2, Fatal Frame V, etc. are too violent, they don't compliment or work with things like Nintendo's core brands (Mario, Pokemon, Zelda) at all. 

The sweet spot today and I've said this before is the Marvel formula. They can appeal to kids, adults, and teenagers all at the same time without getting into a territory that's so violent/dark that it alienates the younger side of the audience, but doesn't get so kid-centric that it turns off adults. Star Wars is another brand license that does this very well. 

No wonder Disney paid out the ass to get both of them. 

11/12 year old boys are in that puberty stage where they want to be seen as grown up instead of as kids so yes they will choose Call of Duty over Yoshi but I'm not talking about pre-teens when I say kids, I'm talking more along the lines of 3-9 years old.

U are ignoring the female side of things, Marvel & Star Wars primarily appeal to males. Wii/DS did a great job of appealing to females among various age groups. Style Savvy, Art Academy, Nintendogs, Wii Fit, Animal Crossing all scored big among females. The only new ip that I can think of to release this generation that has a strong female appeal is Tomodachi Life and that game has been a huge success but it's not enough. Nintendo needs to actually push these types of games and create more to reclaim some of that female audience.

So ya i agree that the the whole Marvel/Star Wars idea is probably a more sound strategy than going for M-rated niche titles but don't forget about the female crowd that helped Wii/DS alot.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Soundwave on 27 May 2015
zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:


There is more than just 13-35 year old males that enjoy games. Kids, females, parents, these are types of gamers Nintendo should heavily invest in.

Of course that doesn't mean Nintendo should completely ignore teenage/adult males but they shouldn't be the main focus, there should be a healthy mix of support for all types of demographics. Nintendo should continue and increase what they have done with games like Bayonetta 2, Fatal Frame V, Devil's Third while expanding on that and get some more western focused titles thrown in the mix.

The problem with this is none of the games you've listed enter into the type of mass market sweet spot I'm talking about. 

You don't want to have a game that will just automatically be ignored by 13-35 year old males either, because the audience base for just a kids game can be limited. Beyond that kids themselves often don't want a game that looks like its tailor made for them. The avergae 11 year old would probably rather play Call of Duty rather than Yoshi's Wooly World or even Splatoon. They don't want the game that looks like it's "mom approved". 

Bayonetta 2, Fatal Frame V, etc. are too violent, they don't compliment or work with things like Nintendo's core brands (Mario, Pokemon, Zelda) at all. 

The sweet spot today and I've said this before is the Marvel formula. They can appeal to kids, adults, and teenagers all at the same time without getting into a territory that's so violent/dark that it alienates the younger side of the audience, but doesn't get so kid-centric that it turns off adults. Star Wars is another brand license that does this very well. 

No wonder Disney paid out the ass to get both of them. 

11/12 year old boys are in that puberty stage where they want to be seen as grown up instead of as kids so yes they will choose Call of Duty over Yoshi but I'm not talking about pre-teens when I say kids, I'm talking more along the lines of 3-9 years old.

U are ignoring the female side of things, Marvel & Star Wars primarily appeal to males. Wii/DS did a great job of appealing to females among various age groups. Style Savvy, Art Academy, Nintendogs, Wii Fit, Animal Crossing all scored big among females. The only new ip that I can think of to release this generation that has a strong female appeal is Tomodachi Life and that game has been a huge success but it's not enough. Nintendo needs to actually push these types of games and create more to reclaim some of that female audience.

So ya i agree that the the whole Marvel/Star Wars idea is probably a more sound strategy than going for M-rated niche titles but don't forget about the female crowd that helped Wii/DS alot.

Women love Avengers and Star Wars too. There isn't any demographic properties like that don't appeal to. 



zorg1000 on 27 May 2015
Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:


There is more than just 13-35 year old males that enjoy games. Kids, females, parents, these are types of gamers Nintendo should heavily invest in.

Of course that doesn't mean Nintendo should completely ignore teenage/adult males but they shouldn't be the main focus, there should be a healthy mix of support for all types of demographics. Nintendo should continue and increase what they have done with games like Bayonetta 2, Fatal Frame V, Devil's Third while expanding on that and get some more western focused titles thrown in the mix.

The problem with this is none of the games you've listed enter into the type of mass market sweet spot I'm talking about. 

You don't want to have a game that will just automatically be ignored by 13-35 year old males either, because the audience base for just a kids game can be limited. Beyond that kids themselves often don't want a game that looks like its tailor made for them. The avergae 11 year old would probably rather play Call of Duty rather than Yoshi's Wooly World or even Splatoon. They don't want the game that looks like it's "mom approved". 

Bayonetta 2, Fatal Frame V, etc. are too violent, they don't compliment or work with things like Nintendo's core brands (Mario, Pokemon, Zelda) at all. 

The sweet spot today and I've said this before is the Marvel formula. They can appeal to kids, adults, and teenagers all at the same time without getting into a territory that's so violent/dark that it alienates the younger side of the audience, but doesn't get so kid-centric that it turns off adults. Star Wars is another brand license that does this very well. 

No wonder Disney paid out the ass to get both of them. 

11/12 year old boys are in that puberty stage where they want to be seen as grown up instead of as kids so yes they will choose Call of Duty over Yoshi but I'm not talking about pre-teens when I say kids, I'm talking more along the lines of 3-9 years old.

U are ignoring the female side of things, Marvel & Star Wars primarily appeal to males. Wii/DS did a great job of appealing to females among various age groups. Style Savvy, Art Academy, Nintendogs, Wii Fit, Animal Crossing all scored big among females. The only new ip that I can think of to release this generation that has a strong female appeal is Tomodachi Life and that game has been a huge success but it's not enough. Nintendo needs to actually push these types of games and create more to reclaim some of that female audience.

So ya i agree that the the whole Marvel/Star Wars idea is probably a more sound strategy than going for M-rated niche titles but don't forget about the female crowd that helped Wii/DS alot.

Women love Avengers and Star Wars too. There isn't any demographic properties like that don't appeal to. 

Of course there are females who enjoy Star Wars & Avengers just like there are males who enjoy 50 Shades of Grey or P.S. I Love You, but are u going to try and deny the majority of those properties have a specific gender that accounts for a majority of their fanbases?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Nem on 27 May 2015

I am not gonna give my time and views to some random guy i probably will regret hearing.

I assume this is about Project cars. SMS took advantage of people with the kickstarter, they used their money with the promise of making a Wii U version. Their efforts caught the eye of a big publisher and the project grew in scope and was directed at a mass market audience instead. Add to this that these people hyped their Wii U version and always knew the power of the system.

So, i ask. Is it wrong of people to feel disappointed for beeing lied to and used? Only in the games industry do you have people who defend that companies are right, not customers. Its ludricous the sugestion that people should conform to the lies and stay quiet. I would say its unacceptable, no matter wich platform.
This is in no way entitlement. Its honesty. Honesty is what is misding in the games industry, and unlike what the OP and the derpy person on the video may say, you should always fight for what you think is right.

Do not conform. That isnt the road to change and to a better, more transparent games market. Say NO to lies.



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captain carot on 27 May 2015

No Kickstarter at all.

http://www.wmdportal.com/

Neither a lot of money from Wii U owners.

And they are honest actually. Honestly Wii U is not fast enough to run the communities vision of a racing game. Because many of the decisions that led to that specific game where made by the WMD community.



JRPGfan on 27 May 2015
Captain_Yuri said:
DonFerrari said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Thats the thing though, the wiiU had the worst versions in one way or another. Whether it be by performance issues or missing DLC, for majority of the third party games, it was the worst version

And cod on the wii was the worst version... So it makes sense as to why it sold the least

There is no denying that Nintendo fan's buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo exclusives but I highly doubt that the third party's gimped versions weren't the causes for the bad sales as well...

PS versions were a lot worst than Xbox on begin of last gen... Bayoneta was basically unplayable on launch.. they still sold on par... not 1/20 on basically the same game but worst graphic, that we are supposed to believe it doesn't matter.

Hmm, that is true... Maybe 160rmf is right, Sony fans do/can settle for less

Hense the word choice of entitlement? seems fitting enough.

 

Captain_Yuri said:
DonFerrari said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Then what's the reason? Better graphics/fps + all the dlc would be what I would think is the reason


People have more than 1 console and buy the better version. Nintendo fans preffer exclusives, etc... because all your points are negated by games on PS3 that suffered the same problems but sold good.

How do you justify CoD on Wii selling so much less than other platforms if not by prejudice of the fanbase against 3rd parties, dev or things like that? Best CoD on Wii sold 2.4M (almost like PSP version, that is certainly a lot more gimped) and on WiiU it sold between 250-300k against their counterparts best sold on X360 14.5M and PS4 6.5M how much was it lacking to sell 1/7 and 1/20 of the other platform?

Thats the thing though, the wiiU had the worst versions in one way or another. Whether it be by performance issues or missing DLC, for majority of the third party games, it was the worst version

And cod on the wii was the worst version... So it makes sense as to why it sold the least

There is no denying that Nintendo fan's buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo exclusives but I highly doubt that the third party's gimped versions weren't the causes for the bad sales as well...

If the resolution is lower, or the fps, maybe it all comes down to hardware of the consol? it is alot weaker than the other two.

Its not realistic to expect to have the "best" version of any 3rd party game on the Wii U.

 

And it shouldnt stop people from buying a game, if they like what they see gameplay wise.

 

 

Angelv577 said:
Again with this topic. Third parties dont need nintendo and nintendo fans are fine with no Third parties support. Nothing will change this gen and honestly neither next gen.


probably this.

 

zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:

There is more than just 13-35 year old males that enjoy games. Kids, females, parents, these are types of gamers Nintendo should heavily invest in.

Of course that doesn't mean Nintendo should completely ignore teenage/adult males but they shouldn't be the main focus, there should be a healthy mix of support for all types of demographics. Nintendo should continue and increase what they have done with games like Bayonetta 2, Fatal Frame V, Devil's Third while expanding on that and get some more western focused titles thrown in the mix.

So more barbie games on the nintendo systems is all that needs to happend? Ironically there already are nintendo only versions of many barbie games....

Like Barbie Dreamhouse Party, its only found on Wii/Wii U/DS/3DS. I think Nintendo already is the most girl friendly consol, and it doesnt look like thats helped it any.

 

But yeah I support your idea that nintendo needs more mature content, that is aimed more at older males as well that play games.



captain carot on 27 May 2015

Just for that third parties dont need Nintendo and Nintendofans... argument:

It's actually Nintendo that needs third party to get gamers on board that are not so specific Nintendo fans.

Otherwise and the Wii 'accident' taken aside it's 62m>49m>33m>22m>~15m>under 10m>dead.



outlawauron on 27 May 2015
Captain_Yuri said:
oniyide said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Hmm, that is true... Maybe 160rmf is right, Sony fans do/can settle for less

or maybe they just like to play games that they believe are good? Have a wider variety of tastes. Or maybe its time to admit that the Ninty systems do not have an audience for certain types of games. I'm surprised it took this long for this silly comment to be made.

I dont see the deal of a game being a late port, if its good people will buy it, not everyone who wanted a game was able to do so intially or even have the system. thats why the excuses are just that, excuses if they wanted the games on the systems they would sell. Lets not pretend like the games on WIi U are SO unplayable, give me a break.

Well, I gotta go to sleep so u can have the last word but I will end off with this. While I agree that Nintendo systems don't have an audience for certain types of games, imo, it is more due to the fact that the ports are gimped in someway that Nintendo fans won't pay for it and/or they have another platform which is very likely where they can just buy the better versions of the games. I would never, ever pay full price for a game that is gimped in someway because thats just nonsense to me... There are far better games where my money can go to and I do think that many Nintendo fans are like that which is why they buy Nintendo games more than third party games which have issues.

And yes, its not unplayable but really, why on earth should we settle for less when we can either get a different game that isn't gimped or we can buy the full version on a different platform? There is really no reason to buy the wiiU version at all if its the worst version and if you love buying the gimped version just so you can play it, good for u but I will always be against buying the gimped version of anything... And I do believe that it is why most third party games that have issues sell so horribly on Nintendo platform. And the ones that aren't gimped but still sell horribly, provided they actually don't have any issues like missing dlc and the games themselves are great, are the ones that I will blame the fans on but those are very few and far between.

You grossly overestimate the knowledge and interest of the normal user. Most people have no idea if a game is very gimped or not, it's nearly only the small minority of people who frequent forums. If this were the case, then the very good Wii U version of games would have sold better. No reason for the PSV version of Need for Speed to more than triple the Wii U's version in sales.

and honestly, I know this second part is a lie, so I won't even touch it.



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Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 27 May 2015
outlawauron said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Well, I gotta go to sleep so u can have the last word but I will end off with this. While I agree that Nintendo systems don't have an audience for certain types of games, imo, it is more due to the fact that the ports are gimped in someway that Nintendo fans won't pay for it and/or they have another platform which is very likely where they can just buy the better versions of the games. I would never, ever pay full price for a game that is gimped in someway because thats just nonsense to me... There are far better games where my money can go to and I do think that many Nintendo fans are like that which is why they buy Nintendo games more than third party games which have issues.

And yes, its not unplayable but really, why on earth should we settle for less when we can either get a different game that isn't gimped or we can buy the full version on a different platform? There is really no reason to buy the wiiU version at all if its the worst version and if you love buying the gimped version just so you can play it, good for u but I will always be against buying the gimped version of anything... And I do believe that it is why most third party games that have issues sell so horribly on Nintendo platform. And the ones that aren't gimped but still sell horribly, provided they actually don't have any issues like missing dlc and the games themselves are great, are the ones that I will blame the fans on but those are very few and far between.

You grossly overestimate the knowledge and interest of the normal user. Most people have no idea if a game is very gimped or not, it's nearly only the small minority of people who frequent forums. If this were the case, then the very good Wii U version of games would have sold better. No reason for the PSV version of Need for Speed to more than triple the Wii U's version in sales.

and honestly, I know this second part is a lie, so I won't even touch it.

Wait which part is a lie? The bolded one or are u referring to the second paragraph?

Cause if its the bolded one, I would like to know which game I bought at a full retail price that was the gimped version



                  

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