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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo Fans Vs. Third-Party Developers & Entitlement

oniyide on 26 May 2015
bunchanumbers said:
I'd actually prefer it if Nintendo cut off all 3rd party support except for select deals with 3rd party publishers and indies. That and they should create a team whose specific job is to port select 3rd party games to Wii U. Pare it down to the essentials and the games that the fans want in their library. It would mean that Nintendo is in charge of porting a game over. Would mean less crappy ports and would encourage fans to buy the Nintendo version.

first off lets not pretend like Ninty has any leverage over 3rd parties, this aint the 90s so that whole cut them off is funny. Its actual the opposite way around which is what 3rd parties have essentially done across the board. 

As for your other suggestion IMHO that is more work than Ninty is willing to do theyve already stated they dont arent really going to sweat the multiplat games so dont expecat GTA on Wii U anytime soon.



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oniyide on 26 May 2015
DonFerrari said:
Cream147 said:
Firstly let's ditch the term "entitlement". Me or anyone else saying that I would have loved the opportunity to spend £50 on Project Cars is not entitlement. If you think it is then you don't understand what entitlement is, or you're just using that inflammatory word to be a jerk.

I'm not going to pretend that I would buy a massive amount of third-party games if they were coming to Wii U - currently I own precisely 0 retail third party games, and that situation is now likely to stay the same for some time until I get around to buying Rayman Legends or Zombi U.

However, would I have bought GTA V if it released on Wii U? Yes, and I think I'm far from the only one who would buy such a critically acclaimed and popular game. Rock Band 4 and Project Cars? Yes and yes, and again, I don't think I'd be the only one. Rock Band has sold respectably on Nintendo consoles in the past, and I think there would still be enough of a market there to make it worthwhile. Guitar Hero Live will on the other hand obviously struggle due to its extortionate price and gimmicky look, and this will be held up as an example of why you can't release third party games on Nintendo consoles.

The other thing is that third parties simply don't help themselves on Nintendo consoles. Mass Effect 3 released with Wii U on launch day. Well thanks a lot EA, I'd get it, but I've never played Mass Effect 1 and 2! How about releasing the whole trilogy? Instead, EA chalk Mass Effect 3's failure as a reason why we can't release on Nintendo consoles. The Rayman Legends issue has been talked over to death and was yet another way to screw over Nintendo fans - and yes, Nintendo fans don't forget that kind of thing. Watch Dogs is yet another ridiculous one, with a long delay ending in a bad port - and the mediocre response to the game already clocked by the Nintendo fans. When I went to my local game store on the one hand I could see Watch Dogs for 360 in the bargain bin for a fiver, and on the Wii U it was selling for £56. Yeah, thanks but no thanks. Project Cars looks like the latest and perhaps worst of betrayals. We were told how great the game was running on Wii U and how the Gamepad allowed for some creative ideas on their part. Now after all the promises, this is what we get. Of course we're annoyed, and being annoyed here is no more entitled than the people who were annoyed when Silent Hills was cancelled.

And then there's the constant sneering and snipes made at Nintendo fans by these third party companies. EA have a history of this, constantly mocking the consoles and the users. An Activision rep recently laughed at the idea of the latest CoD coming to Wii U - pretty disrespectful to the 300k customers who bought their games for Wii U. No one likes being made fun of - it's pretty much insult to injury in these situations.

Bleh, vent over I guess. If the right third party experience came along I promise I'd buy it, but not CoD or AC and not games that have been on the shelf for months and you expect me to shell out full price for a sub-optimal version. And I think that's how many Wii U owners feel.


Yet all that happened on PS (with CEO of Acti saying Sony needed to get their shit together and start selling PS3 and not make rubbish complicated HW)... we got several late late ports (like 2 years after), we got ME 2 without ME1, and all the other shit... guess what, the games still sold very good on PS, and most of the customers don't even follow all this BS on the web.

this, its funny how people still use that excuse, and to this day i still havent heard an actualy rebuttal to what you said.



DonFerrari on 26 May 2015
oniyide said:
DonFerrari said:


Yet all that happened on PS (with CEO of Acti saying Sony needed to get their shit together and start selling PS3 and not make rubbish complicated HW)... we got several late late ports (like 2 years after), we got ME 2 without ME1, and all the other shit... guess what, the games still sold very good on PS, and most of the customers don't even follow all this BS on the web.

this, its funny how people still use that excuse, and to this day i still havent heard an actualy rebuttal to what you said.


The only rebutal I can think of is quite ludicrous "nintendo fans are smarter", "nintendo fans are used to higher standards", etc. Guess I'll keep being a sucker that loves Sony, buy mostly 1st party, appreciate a few 3rd and gives a fair share of attention to nintendo games whenever I play with friends or go for older games.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

zorg1000 on 26 May 2015
Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Wii/DS level sales are going to happen again but there is a huge middle ground between Wii/DS & Wii U/3DS sales and with the right strategy they can improve their current situation.

Perhaps, but maybe not, it's quite possible that consumers simply gravitate towards one central platform that offers all the major third party titles with some decent 1st party exclusives, but those aren't the keys. 

To be honest I really suspect the N64 probably only topped 30 million because a lot of people bought into it early on thinking it would be another NES/SNES ... the average joe had no idea what the economics of carts vs CDs was all about and up until that time "Nintendo" was synonmous with having the widest library/best third party support. 


I'm not talking about Nintendo getting back "hardcore" gamers that are on Playstation/Xbox, more like I think they should find a way to attract kids/families again, the type of people who don't care or know that a game is 1st, 2nd or 3rd party. Offer up a bunch of new, exciting ip that can appeal to many different demographics. Nintendo has seen a lot of success with games that appeal to a more casual audience, Super Mario, Tetris, Mario Kart, Pokemon Smash Bros, Animal Crossing, Nintendogs, Brain Age, Wii Sports, Wii Fit. Is it a coincidence that every Nintendo game to sell over 10 million is a casual friendly title? I think not.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

bunchanumbers on 26 May 2015
oniyide said:
bunchanumbers said:
I'd actually prefer it if Nintendo cut off all 3rd party support except for select deals with 3rd party publishers and indies. That and they should create a team whose specific job is to port select 3rd party games to Wii U. Pare it down to the essentials and the games that the fans want in their library. It would mean that Nintendo is in charge of porting a game over. Would mean less crappy ports and would encourage fans to buy the Nintendo version.

first off lets not pretend like Ninty has any leverage over 3rd parties, this aint the 90s so that whole cut them off is funny. Its actual the opposite way around which is what 3rd parties have essentially done across the board. 

As for your other suggestion IMHO that is more work than Ninty is willing to do theyve already stated they dont arent really going to sweat the multiplat games so dont expecat GTA on Wii U anytime soon.

It really wouldn't be that hard to do. Sony is doing this with REvelations 2 and USF4. It wouldn't cost 3rd party publishers anything and they would get licensing fees. Nintendo used to do stuff like this back in the day so I don't see why it can't happen again.



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DonFerrari on 26 May 2015

PwerlvlAmy said:
ian's dickness doesnt stop there, he posted this in response to a wii u owner

Originally Posted by Ian Bell View Post
You won't hear this elsewhere, but in the industry we call you 'The 2%'.

You represent 2% of the purchases but create 98% of the hassle for developers by well, just what you've stated above. Going on channels to tell everyone 'don't buy this game!!' because you have some personal grief.


Honestly, if your followers are like minded people we could chop a good chunk off of that 2% in one fell swoop. You'd be doing us a great favour.





Like this is what really pass through dev minds on about supporting Nintendo HW.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 26 May 2015
oniyide said:

Tekken Tag Tournamet 2, Ninja Gaiden 3, Darksiders 2, Mass Effect 3, Batman Arkham City, Injustice, Need for Speed and thats just off the top of my head. Those games were not gimped and they still sold like sick.

Rayman is not a good example. First should not have even been Wii U exclusive in the first place since it has been proven by now that game is better released multiplat and most of its fans are on Sony systems (we'll get to that later) 2nd its not like that game lit the charts on fire on any system really. 3rd (and this goes to my first point) it sold worse than PS3 and 4 version, "but the PS3 has a much bigger install base" true didnt stop PS4 version from beating it despite coming out much later. Bonus this is usually where people say but those are late ports, excuses late ports sell. So many examples im not even gonna list them, we all know.

Tekken Tag Tournamet 2: 2 month old port
Ninja Gaiden 3: 8 Month old port
Darksiders 2: 3 month old port missing dlc (I think but not 100% sure)
Mass Effect 3: Missing dlc and 8 month old port
Batman Arkham City: 1+ year old port missing dlc
Need for Speed: 3 month old port missing dlc

and etc so yea... those games were old and had issues since the game is a few months+ old



                  

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oniyide on 26 May 2015
DonFerrari said:
oniyide said:

this, its funny how people still use that excuse, and to this day i still havent heard an actualy rebuttal to what you said.


The only rebutal I can think of is quite ludicrous "nintendo fans are smarter", "nintendo fans are used to higher standards", etc. Guess I'll keep being a sucker that loves Sony, buy mostly 1st party, appreciate a few 3rd and gives a fair share of attention to nintendo games whenever I play with friends or go for older games.

the real reason is "different tastes and image" but some will never admit that becasue it doesnt paint 3rd parties in a bad light and that issue is on Ninty and MUCH harder to fix. WOnt be over night either.



oniyide on 26 May 2015
DonFerrari said:
PwerlvlAmy said:
ian's dickness doesnt stop there, he posted this in response to a wii u owner

Originally Posted by Ian Bell View Post
You won't hear this elsewhere, but in the industry we call you 'The 2%'.

You represent 2% of the purchases but create 98% of the hassle for developers by well, just what you've stated above. Going on channels to tell everyone 'don't buy this game!!' because you have some personal grief.


Honestly, if your followers are like minded people we could chop a good chunk off of that 2% in one fell swoop. You'd be doing us a great favour.





Like this is what really pass through dev minds on about supporting Nintendo HW.


is that what all the fuss is about? the guy stated some truths, harsh but true, the numbers back em up



DonFerrari on 26 May 2015
Captain_Yuri said:
oniyide said:

Tekken Tag Tournamet 2, Ninja Gaiden 3, Darksiders 2, Mass Effect 3, Batman Arkham City, Injustice, Need for Speed and thats just off the top of my head. Those games were not gimped and they still sold like sick.

Rayman is not a good example. First should not have even been Wii U exclusive in the first place since it has been proven by now that game is better released multiplat and most of its fans are on Sony systems (we'll get to that later) 2nd its not like that game lit the charts on fire on any system really. 3rd (and this goes to my first point) it sold worse than PS3 and 4 version, "but the PS3 has a much bigger install base" true didnt stop PS4 version from beating it despite coming out much later. Bonus this is usually where people say but those are late ports, excuses late ports sell. So many examples im not even gonna list them, we all know.

Tekken Tag Tournamet 2: 2 month old port
Ninja Gaiden 3: 8 Month old port
Darksiders 2: 3 month old port missing dlc (I think but not 100% sure)
Mass Effect 3: Missing dlc and 8 month old port
Batman Arkham City: 1+ year old port missing dlc
Need for Speed: 3 month old port missing dlc

and etc so yea... those games were old and had issues since the game is a few months+ old


Happened with a lot of temporary exclusive from X360 to PS3, still sold good... TLOU is a remaster done 1 year after original and had fantastic sales and a lot of people were double dippers.... those sound a lot more like excuses than accepting the reality... 2 month old port is an excuse for bad sales? Ok



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."