Incredibly conflicted to be honest. Both views are pretty valid to me...

Have you heard of a magical thing called context?  I in no way said rape is the prime reason of abortion, nor did I argue that abortion as a whole should be legal because of rape.  I saw a quote somewhat else said, and I wanted to respond to it.  Don't twist it into me making an argument I didn't make.  I don't like my words being manipulated. 

JWeinCom said: Ljink96 said: Anti Abortion and here's why: Firstly, I find that I can't tell someone else what to do with their life. I can't. That's my Pro Abortion side. But I was in a debate once and I was Anti Abortion, full on because you're not giving someone a chance at life. Yes, that embryo or cell of blood, whatever stage it is in...is an aspiring and growing human being. Somebody gave you a chance, the best that you can do is give them a chance or not have the baby. "But nobody will take care of him/her as I would"...well damn... that makes no sense. If you want to have him/her killed...does that even infer that you would even take care of him/her? I've heard it all and it all is BS. Of course, that's my opinion. Oh, and one more thing: the child disability thing. I understand that someone might not want to bring a child into this world with no chance of living. Then again, there are religious folks(which I am) that will say that you don't know what God can do for that child. AKA, a miracle. But unlike strict religious types, I won't continually force that on you. It's your choice. I don't find it to be the right choice but it's yours to make. I guess, I have mixed feelings about it. Overall, I just feel that definitely, any child that hasn't been predetermined to have an issue, deserves a chance to see and experience this beautiful world of ours. How selfish it would be to do otherwise. "But what if I was raped"? I don't wanna be reminded of the baby and I want to kill it instead... That to me is a bunch of BS. Have the child, send him/her to be adopted. So... let's say you were just raped.  Now you have a baby in your stomach.  For nine months you're going to have a little thing kicking around in your stomach for nine months.  You're going to have to go through an incredibly painful process, your body will be irreperably changed (poor vagina), a process which actually can be lethal (particularly depending on where you are, but even in the US abortion is many times safer than live birth).  If you are in school or in work, this process will inevitably disrupt what you are doing in life.  Depending on what your career path is, it may derail it completely. People who may not be aware that you've been raped may judge you, or may even good naturedly ask who the father is, so once again you can be reminded that you've been raped.  Your lovelife will be put on hold for a year because most people don't want a pregnant chick (although, gotta be honest, I'm sort of into it.  TMI right?) And after you've gone through this process, you'll have the stigma of having given a child up for adoption, and there is always the chance that this will lead to legal issues with the rapist over custody (yeah this has happened). I feel like you haven't fully thought about this issue from the perspective of a woman.

I feel that, there are always 2 sides to a story. I understand that women may be damaged by being raped. I was in a debate as I said, remember? But, one side is never more justifiable in this issue. There are no definitions or anything to apply to this issue. I respect your thoughts. I understand the trials and troubles that a woman may face. It isn't fun and it is taxing and somewhat embarassing.(I learned during the debate). I stand by my opinion and may you stand by yours. But never call someone out on their opinions, even if they don't make sense to you, because after all, it's an opinion.

What defines a human? Conscience? Cognitive abilities? Physiology?

I see it as the heart, so once the heart develops I am against it.

Pro-Choice, and this coming from someone who was almost aborted due to showing very similar signs to a previous pregnancy that had ended in miscarriage.

That's what manslaughter is; "the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or in circumstances not amounting to murder."

Ljink96 said: JWeinCom said: Ljink96 said: Anti Abortion and here's why: Firstly, I find that I can't tell someone else what to do with their life. I can't. That's my Pro Abortion side. But I was in a debate once and I was Anti Abortion, full on because you're not giving someone a chance at life. Yes, that embryo or cell of blood, whatever stage it is in...is an aspiring and growing human being. Somebody gave you a chance, the best that you can do is give them a chance or not have the baby. "But nobody will take care of him/her as I would"...well damn... that makes no sense. If you want to have him/her killed...does that even infer that you would even take care of him/her? I've heard it all and it all is BS. Of course, that's my opinion. Oh, and one more thing: the child disability thing. I understand that someone might not want to bring a child into this world with no chance of living. Then again, there are religious folks(which I am) that will say that you don't know what God can do for that child. AKA, a miracle. But unlike strict religious types, I won't continually force that on you. It's your choice. I don't find it to be the right choice but it's yours to make. I guess, I have mixed feelings about it. Overall, I just feel that definitely, any child that hasn't been predetermined to have an issue, deserves a chance to see and experience this beautiful world of ours. How selfish it would be to do otherwise. "But what if I was raped"? I don't wanna be reminded of the baby and I want to kill it instead... That to me is a bunch of BS. Have the child, send him/her to be adopted. So... let's say you were just raped.  Now you have a baby in your stomach.  For nine months you're going to have a little thing kicking around in your stomach for nine months.  You're going to have to go through an incredibly painful process, your body will be irreperably changed (poor vagina), a process which actually can be lethal (particularly depending on where you are, but even in the US abortion is many times safer than live birth).  If you are in school or in work, this process will inevitably disrupt what you are doing in life.  Depending on what your career path is, it may derail it completely. People who may not be aware that you've been raped may judge you, or may even good naturedly ask who the father is, so once again you can be reminded that you've been raped.  Your lovelife will be put on hold for a year because most people don't want a pregnant chick (although, gotta be honest, I'm sort of into it.  TMI right?) And after you've gone through this process, you'll have the stigma of having given a child up for adoption, and there is always the chance that this will lead to legal issues with the rapist over custody (yeah this has happened). I feel like you haven't fully thought about this issue from the perspective of a woman. I feel that, there are always 2 sides to a story. I understand that women may be damaged by being raped. I was in a debate as I said, remember? But, one side is never more justifiable in this issue. There are no definitions or anything to apply to this issue. I respect your thoughts. I understand the trials and troubles that a woman may face. It isn't fun and it is taxing and somewhat embarassing.(I learned during the debate). I stand by my opinion and may you stand by yours. But never call someone out on their opinions, even if they don't make sense to you, because after all, it's an opinion.

Oh no, we can always call people out on their opinions.  Opinions can and should be challenged, because that's how we learn more and are exposed to different ideas.  If our opinions were never challenged, we'd live in a bubble.

I feel that you made a very oversimplified argument about abortion in rape cases, without fully conisidering the scope of the situation.  I don't feel there is any justification for inflicting physical and mental pain on a woman who has already been violated.

Depends on someone's point of view.

If the baby hasn't been developed yet, can it be considered a life? or a rational 'living' thing? does it have a soul? can it think? can it feel?

If memory serves me right, the period in which is 'safer' and recommended to have an abortion is between 14 and 22 weeks of pregnancy. Is this enough time to answer the questions above? 

'Killing' something that hasn't been fully develop doesn't have the same emotional impact as killing something that is (from a biological standpoint, don't want to get into the religious aspect). Sounds harsh but that is my opinion on the matter.

Did I claim that in some way? Did you for some reason read it that way?

Independent of if killing a child is hard, wich is is, abandoning a child is also hard. To be honest, I find it harder to give the baby away. When you think about it, aborting a fetus that is only under a month into the pregnancy, wich you have yet to grow many a big attachment to the idea of a baby, when your body has yet to suffeer the changes on maternety, is easyer.

Inmaging, having a child for 9 months, your body been through hell to finallly give birth to it, thinking for 9 months your possibilitys with the baby, if you should keep it, give it away, thinking names for it. What if they decide to keep the baby, then the father near the end walks away and they had already thought up a life as a family to then give that child away.

Although both are hard decicions filled with regrets. I can only see giving away the child as much more potentially devastating.

Anti abortion. If you don't want a kid there are plenty of methods of contraception. Sometimes they fail, yes, but at least give the thing a chance at life. You fucked up, not your future kid; so don't take his future life away. I wouldn't throw half of myself away, ever. I wouldn't throw family away, ever. I think it's morally wrong.
There is a much better method: contraception.
It looks like this: those who can afford birth control/abortions have fewer births, while the poor drug-riddled folks just keep pumping them out. Give everyone free and reliable contraception, and solve like 8,000 problems at once.

UNLESS: it's a rape. If it's a rape baby, abort that fetus and kick the living shit out of it what a sack of shit. But if my mom heard that she would say: "But that baby didn't have anything to do with the rape, and it is innocent."
See, that is the struggle I would have. Although that fetus is genetically half rapist, it was innocent of the crime, and has real association to the rapist other than genes. So I can see the argument of the pro-lifers there, but I still disagree, unless anyone can convince me otherwise.