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Forums - Sony - Sony looking at hand tracking for Project Morpheus.

 

How would you feel about hand tracking on Project Morpheus?

Love the idea! A must have for immersive VR! 42 41.58%
 
Cool idea, though not a must have. 30 29.70%
 
Meh, could take it or leave it. 11 10.89%
 
Don't want it, waste of time. 18 17.82%
 
Total:101
Dusk said:
teigaga said:
Dusk said:

Here's the thing. It's no different from the kinect. Not really, the difference is that the screen is on your head insead of in front of you. For some reason MS could not come up with practical ways to incorporate normal movement within a game as well as the hand tracking. I honestly think this could have been resolved if they had made a single hand controller or something like that, but it was never done. Another issue with Kinect is that in different lighing conditions and different sized rooms and dependant on how much stuff is in the room affected how well it worked. Even the kinect 2 wasn't accurate enough to track something like a finger point or the like to create directional movement within a game. It would be better perhaps with a glove or something that had some form of ability to control direction. 

well sony have a single hand controller in the form of Nav controller as I mention, alternatively just a standard move control. Above all I think some people are over complicating the matter assuming that this is going to applied to complex games or all games. Microsoft could never incorporate normal movement in kinect, but who's to suggest that the games where this would be applied would have normal movements? Many of Morpheus's demos were on rails anyway, on top of that Kinect1 didn't have head tracking which is essentially act as an accurate analouge stick. Further more how many games did microsoft really push with Kinect? 

Even if this is only applied to a handful of gimmicky experiences it may still very well be worth their time, as those gimmicky experience tend to be the ones that grab the mass market. Imagine a Nintendogs clone in VR, why would you need a controller for it, on top of that would a target audience of kids prefer controller or just you their hands? Again I think people are merely thinking about experiences they want to play and not thinking about the broader picture. 

Your head won't act as an analogue stick. It's pivotal and doesn't bounce back like a normal analogue stick. With a stick you can keep pressing a direction and the motion still flows in that direction, if they were to do that with your head it will induce dizziness, think of staring a direction while spinning on a tire swing. As shown in almost every demo, this works very well with onrails demos, but as far as full 360's, the full body/hips and shoulders has better utilization and the head just as a pivot. 

Since they have the single control scheme with Move and likely updates with it, what is the need for hand tracking. They already track hand movement, and likely better just with the Move, plus with the added bonus of having an actual usable controller. This honestly just seems like a move advanced Kinect, but unfortunately with very similar limitations. Although, if the Kinect would have incorporated a wiimote/nunchuck controller variation to go along with its usage, it really might have been able to do something special, but at the same time it almost negates the kinect for a superior variation of motion control. Yes, the wiimote+ and nunchuck/Move are far superior to the kinect when motion controls are concerned with the exception of some workout games that can track if you are actually doing the exercises correctly.  


Except what realistic game do you need to constantly turning 360 degrees in? Personally I have a very high metabolism and very alert nature. If I hear something behind me it takes less than a second to look and this absolutely won't be an issue; can't speak for others though.

 

BTW your comparisons with kinect, acting like Sony's attempting to copy them are hilarious considering PSEye came out years before kinect was a concept 



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Without haptic feedback and something to stop you from reaching through things it will always remain a gimmick, only suited to a small subset of movements.
AR is more suited to this, overlay a control surface on a table and you can at least type on the table. Typing in thin air or will always suck. Yet maybe I'm wrong. Project a holographic switch or panel and maybe it won't feel so wrong to interact with that.



teigaga said:
Dusk said:

Your head won't act as an analogue stick. It's pivotal and doesn't bounce back like a normal analogue stick. With a stick you can keep pressing a direction and the motion still flows in that direction, if they were to do that with your head it will induce dizziness, think of staring a direction while spinning on a tire swing. As shown in almost every demo, this works very well with onrails demos, but as far as full 360's, the full body/hips and shoulders has better utilization and the head just as a pivot. 

Since they have the single control scheme with Move and likely updates with it, what is the need for hand tracking. They already track hand movement, and likely better just with the Move, plus with the added bonus of having an actual usable controller. This honestly just seems like a move advanced Kinect, but unfortunately with very similar limitations. Although, if the Kinect would have incorporated a wiimote/nunchuck controller variation to go along with its usage, it really might have been able to do something special, but at the same time it almost negates the kinect for a superior variation of motion control. Yes, the wiimote+ and nunchuck/Move are far superior to the kinect when motion controls are concerned with the exception of some workout games that can track if you are actually doing the exercises correctly.  

Again no one said anything about full 3D movements, your head would act like a cursor which is what one analogue stick does in First and Third persons games and its something kinect never had. You're still talking about a 1 size fits all approach, whereas I'm talking about making the option available to devs and sonys marketing team. No one will argue against nav controller and move stick, that is obviously the main control scheme for any complex experience and the most responsive experience but its also $40 more in accessories and not as intuitive a sell as functional gesture controls for simpler experiences which are garuneteed as we've seen with sonys demos. You're right it has it limitations but that has nothing to do with its potential appeal. Think about about educational games, interactive stories, pet simulators, full body arcade games.

The argument that its worth nothing as far as the selling potential of VR is not something any of us can really say with much backing, the argument that it has potential whilst also being unlikely to cost sony an arm and leg in investment however if far more agreeable, no?


It's not though. As I said, it's a pivot which will work fine for on rails games looking from side to side. In first person games it gives you a full 360 degree rotation, your head is incapable of the same. So it working as a cursor it not the same. I'm sure this thing could work fine with fairly simplistic games like we have already seen in abundance. Games like Kinect Sports, Kinect Star Wars, the multitude of party games on all 3 systems, but it really doesn't seem like it is going to take it a step further in any way, and I think that is what many are expecting from it, producer and consumer alike. 

With the likely high price range of this anyway, the controllers should be included. It should include everything necessary to get the full experience. 

I really don't think this is going to take off like Sony and the many others are hoping and banking on. It could very easily be a slipping point for a company like Sony. 



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

aLkaLiNE said:
Dusk said:

Your head won't act as an analogue stick. It's pivotal and doesn't bounce back like a normal analogue stick. With a stick you can keep pressing a direction and the motion still flows in that direction, if they were to do that with your head it will induce dizziness, think of staring a direction while spinning on a tire swing. As shown in almost every demo, this works very well with onrails demos, but as far as full 360's, the full body/hips and shoulders has better utilization and the head just as a pivot. 

Since they have the single control scheme with Move and likely updates with it, what is the need for hand tracking. They already track hand movement, and likely better just with the Move, plus with the added bonus of having an actual usable controller. This honestly just seems like a move advanced Kinect, but unfortunately with very similar limitations. Although, if the Kinect would have incorporated a wiimote/nunchuck controller variation to go along with its usage, it really might have been able to do something special, but at the same time it almost negates the kinect for a superior variation of motion control. Yes, the wiimote+ and nunchuck/Move are far superior to the kinect when motion controls are concerned with the exception of some workout games that can track if you are actually doing the exercises correctly.  


Except what realistic game do you need to constantly turning 360 degrees in? Personally I have a very high metabolism and very alert nature. If I hear something behind me it takes less than a second to look and this absolutely won't be an issue; can't speak for others though.

 

BTW your comparisons with kinect, acting like Sony's attempting to copy them are hilarious considering PSEye came out years before kinect was a concept 

Dude, you have completely missed the point. This is not a MS vs Sony thing in any way. It makes no difference who did it first in any way. The kinect is far more well known and has had far more support for it, plus more money thrown at it but still with very little to show for it. It did great initially, but beyond that, the consumer encouraged MS to drop it and they did. Sony was pushing the cam as well with the PS4, as shown on stuff like Jimmy Fallon at the time, and it hasn't done well either which is why there is little support for it. 

What game other than a side scroller, racer/on rails or fighter uses a 360 degree camera? Almost all of them. Shooters of course, musou/beat em up's, current RPG's, some puzzle games. Man the list goes on. 

I'm not sure what your metabolism and alert nature have to do with anything. Almost anybody can turn around, reaction time will vary, but for the most part it's a given. I'm not sure what you are getting at with that at all. 

Again, get it out of your head that this is some sort of MS and Sony war thing, it's not. 



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

I rather just have the regular controller to use with Morpheus. The casuals can use motion control stuff for all I care.



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Aeolus451 said:
I rather just have the regular controller to use with Morpheus. The casuals can use motion control stuff for all I care.


Its the right way to go, and the simplest to code, this way you could easily make games that work both with VR devices, and without it.

The motion hand tracking thing is going to be for very few games, its gonna be gimmicky and ultimately do very little for gameing.

(unless they make you get a controller on each hand, like the wii mote)



Normchacho said:
Nem said:


Because at the moment, its just a screen in your face. An unconfortable huge device attached to your head for hours will get unconfortable aswell. Its a disaster waiting to happen.

For this tech to work, it needs to work better. This new motion technology marriage is a good idea and it needs to be less cumbersome.


Well...all VR is going to be screen on your face, how else would you be able to see anything? Actually, so far people have been saying that the Morpheus is really comfortable and Sony seem to have gone to great lengths to make sure it was easy to wear.

Obviously as time goes on the headsets will get smaller and more comfortable, but the first impressions that we've been getting have been saying that it isn't really an issue with the current hardware.


Perception is what matters and that thing looks hideous. If it were something like a Visor, like you see in anime's like Sword art online, it would have a better chance. Morpheus does not look anymore aestethicaly pleasing than the virtual boy. Also, "people" have not had it in their head for several hours yet.

The tech is not ready. Not good enough and not practical.



"hideous."



Dusk said:
Sooooo, now that MS dropped Kinect, Sony is going to pick it up. Allllrighty then.

They continue simply with eyetoy and move, which MS developed into Kinect and now Sony devlops it further for Project morpheus



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Next step

Dick tracking :)