JWeinCom said:
sc94597 said:
Believe it or not there are athiests who believe they've falsified the existence of any deity, logically. The question is more of an epistemological one of philosophy vs. science. In science you are always an agnostic with how you address knowledge. There is always the possibility that something doesn't explain the full picture. In philosophy/logic you are dealing with absolute truths.
So the distinction between a gnostic athiest and an agnostic athiest is a real one.
The terms "agnostic" vs. "gnostic" are most useful when we ask the questions with regards to deities in general (not any specific one.)
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I understand the difference on a technical level, but I think you have to take into account the way language is used colloquially. I feel that if I told people I'm an agnostic atheist, I wouldn't be effectively explaining my view to them.
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I understand. In my original post, I mostly wanted to address the people who say things like "Agnosticism is weak athiesm for people who are scared or think athiesm is bad. Some agnostics can be thiests, some can be indifferent, and others can actively disbelieve in the existence of a god. While athiesm might describe an agnostic athiest better than agnosticism, colloquially, agnosticism has a much wider meaning and a larger spectrum. To characterize it as "weak athiesm" (something with an entirely different meaning) is to over-simplify things in my opinion. They are answers to very different questions. If somebody asked me "Do you believe we can know anything about the existence of a deity?" I'd say, "no, I am an agnostic." If somebody asked me, "do you believe in the existence of a deity?" I'd say, "No, I am an athiest." The usefulness of making this distinction for the context of somebody who wants to understand is that it helps explain where the athiesm comes from. In my case, it comes from my agnosticism. My beliefs are rooted in empiricism and rationalism. Therefore, anything that I am agnostic about I cannot form a positive belief for. The athiesm of a gnostic comes from something very much different. They believe that they've disproved the diety, logically, and therefore can't believe in his existence because he does not exist.
This also helps inform us of the two types of theists. There are those who "feel" a god exists, based on anecdotal "knowledge"/pattern-seeking and instinct and there are those who know a god exists based on logic and/or teachings/scripture. I've found the first group much more tolerable than the second and I can empathize with them much more.