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Forums - Gaming - New Study Finds No Link Between Gaming and Sexist Attitudes

Mummelmann said:
No one on earth should be the slightest bit surprised by these findings (or lack of findings). This is the new "games make people violent" argument, strange that most feminist extremists choose not to promote the idea that games cause violent behavior, these two must surely go hand-in hand and fall under the same umbrella of societal problems and media influence.

I feel like I've missed the point at which sexism in games (not the industry/culture) has really been a huge deal. People like Anita made videos/comments whereby they criticise certain tropes and characters, the response to those videos is often what blows this out of proportion and leads to the wider debate regarding the industry not the games itself?




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setsunatenshi said:

so the artists and the market at large will decide what will be successful or not successful. if moaning is all the new age feminists would like to do, then go right ahead. to be honest not having a female assassin in assassins creed seems less of a 'gender issue' and more of a 'first world problems' issue in my oppinion.

calling that sexism does a deteriment to what real sexism is (eg: women not allowed to drive in countries like saudi arabia)


Games are a first world commodities, so yeah, anything you or any of us has ever complained about like DRM, DLC, QTE, Gamestop, broken games, over reliance on patches, linear RPGS, too many FPSs or whatever else is also first world problems. Gender representation is mostly a first world issue and unless you live in a third world country, it doesn't mean its not worthy of discussion.

What I don't get is why people make such a big deal out of critism and conversation. People should be able to have healthy debate because at the end of the day what you said is correct; the makers+ market will decide what becomes of it all anyway. 



teigaga said:
Mummelmann said:
No one on earth should be the slightest bit surprised by these findings (or lack of findings). This is the new "games make people violent" argument, strange that most feminist extremists choose not to promote the idea that games cause violent behavior, these two must surely go hand-in hand and fall under the same umbrella of societal problems and media influence.

I feel like I've missed the point at which sexism in games (not the industry/culture) has really been a huge deal. People like Anita made videos/comments whereby they criticise certain tropes and characters, the response to those videos is often what blows this out of proportion and leads to the wider debate regarding the industry not the games itself?


It has been a pretty big deal here in Sweden for some time, but they have, funnily enough, reconciled with the fact that it is very unlikely that games directly cause violent behavior. Everyone is rational when it suits their bias, I guess.
Both the industry and games have been accused of causing faltering moral values towards the female gender.
The most major difference in the two subjects of violence or sexism in games and the industry in general here is that while violence in games is historically a right-wing issue, sexism is historically a left-wing issue, they both share much of the same rhetoric and methods and I see it as a new facet of the same, seemingly non-existant problem.
I'm guessing that the reason this particular debate on sexism isn't as widespread as violence in games in the US and UK and many other nations, is simply due to the fact that these countries and regions do not have anywhere near the same far-left political presence with loud opinions and a media that allows them unlimited access to various channels where one can be loud about things (Swedish media is crazy, it is the left-wing version of Fox, only a lot bigger and influential and even less nuanced).

The new sexist angle in the video game debate has an irritating twist though; the people who make a living out of promoting this nonsense have a fall-back routine that "games are making people violent" supporters never did: the whole "see what happens when I talk about this subject? Everyone is attacking me because they're misogynists!", lumping justified and well reasoned arguments together with mere childish haters to disarm the arguments themselves and their proponents.



Mummelmann said:

It has been a pretty big deal here in Sweden for some time, but they have, funnily enough, reconciled with the fact that it is very unlikely that games directly cause violent behavior. Everyone is rational when it suits their bias, I guess.
Both the industry and games have been accused of causing faltering moral values towards the female gender.
The most major difference in the two subjects of violence or sexism in games and the industry in general here is that while violence in games is historically a right-wing issue, sexism is historically a left-wing issue, they both share much of the same rhetoric and methods and I see it as a new facet of the same, seemingly non-existant problem.
I'm guessing that the reason this particular debate on sexism isn't as widespread as violence in games in the US and UK and many other nations, is simply due to the fact that these countries and regions do not have anywhere near the same far-left political presence with loud opinions and a media that allows them unlimited access to various channels where one can be loud about things (Swedish media is crazy, it is the left-wing version of Fox, only a lot bigger and influential and even less nuanced).

The new sexist angle in the video game debate has an irritating twist though; the people who make a living out of promoting this nonsense have a fall-back routine that "games are making people violent" supporters never did: the whole "see what happens when I talk about this subject? Everyone is attacking me because they're misogynists!", lumping justified and well reasoned arguments together with mere childish haters to disarm the arguments themselves and their proponents.


Yeah, I'm from the UK and although we're quite liberal (even our conservatives) I can't recall sexism in video games ever reaching a big audience. Violence in video games on the other hand was quite. Gamergate got some attention but thats never been about actual games from what I've gauged.



teigaga said:
setsunatenshi said:

so the artists and the market at large will decide what will be successful or not successful. if moaning is all the new age feminists would like to do, then go right ahead. to be honest not having a female assassin in assassins creed seems less of a 'gender issue' and more of a 'first world problems' issue in my oppinion.

calling that sexism does a deteriment to what real sexism is (eg: women not allowed to drive in countries like saudi arabia)


Games are a first world commodities, so yeah, anything you or any of us has ever complained about like DRM, DLC, QTE, Gamestop, broken games, over reliance on patches, linear RPGS, too many FPSs or whatever else is also first world problems. Gender representation is mostly a first world issue and unless you live in a third world country, it doesn't mean its not worthy of discussion.

What I don't get is why people make such a big deal out of critism and conversation. People should be able to have healthy debate because at the end of the day what you said is correct; the makers+ market will decide what becomes of it all anyway.

real sexism shouldn't be considered the same type of problem as drm, dlc, qte, gamestop, etc. that's exactly my point in the first place. real sexism, racism, discrimination of any kind should be taken seriously, so when the new age feminists make gaming their battlecry they are doing a complete disservice to what should be an actual important cause.

they make it a joke and actually cause a rift with people that in any normal circunstances would be fighting tooth and nail for equal rights for all people when their target is the tit's size of lara croft or how you can hire prostitutes in gta.

it goes to play right into the professional victims like that sarkeesian con artist that will use the publicity gained from it to personal profit.

unless you're in a 3rd world country nowadays feminism is empty. if you care for equality of rights you should just be a humanist



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I knew that since I played Gears, I saw those muscle guys and was like "girls in my city thought there should be more Chippendales in the world and they are only useful while naked for them" before they touched the game.



setsunatenshi said:
teigaga said:

Games are a first world commodities, so yeah, anything you or any of us has ever complained about like DRM, DLC, QTE, Gamestop, broken games, over reliance on patches, linear RPGS, too many FPSs or whatever else is also first world problems. Gender representation is mostly a first world issue and unless you live in a third world country, it doesn't mean its not worthy of discussion.

What I don't get is why people make such a big deal out of critism and conversation. People should be able to have healthy debate because at the end of the day what you said is correct; the makers+ market will decide what becomes of it all anyway.

real sexism shouldn't be considered the same type of problem as drm, dlc, qte, gamestop, etc. that's exactly my point in the first place. real sexism, racism, discrimination of any kind should be taken seriously, so when the new age feminists make gaming their battlecry they are doing a complete disservice to what should be an actual important cause.

they make it a joke and actually cause a rift with people that in any normal circunstances would be fighting tooth and nail for equal rights for all people when their target is the tit's size of lara croft or how you can hire prostitutes in gta.

it goes to play right into the professional victims like that sarkeesian con artist that will use the publicity gained from it to personal profit.

unless you're in a 3rd world country nowadays feminism is empty. if you care for equality of rights you should just be a humanist

If the semantics bother you so much then just ignore it and discount the discussion from "real feminism". More often then not its the external groups, like yourself that are labelling and constantly inserting and focusing on "feminism" as  oppose to simply having said discussion, that is one of the main things that fuels a lot of conflict and polarises sides. At the end of the day its someone who may or may not call themselves a "feminist" talking about gender in games, the label has no relevance. If you consider the topic "empty" then don't engage with it, the consequences should be equally as "empty".

Also I never got the fuss over Anita Sarkeesian, she made videos discussing what she considered sexist tropes in games, I don't recall her calling for mass bann on games that sexualised females. The fact that you find her "playing Victim" to constant online abuse and deathreats more problematic  then the harrasment itself is weird. 




teigaga said:
setsunatenshi said:
teigaga said:

Games are a first world commodities, so yeah, anything you or any of us has ever complained about like DRM, DLC, QTE, Gamestop, broken games, over reliance on patches, linear RPGS, too many FPSs or whatever else is also first world problems. Gender representation is mostly a first world issue and unless you live in a third world country, it doesn't mean its not worthy of discussion.

What I don't get is why people make such a big deal out of critism and conversation. People should be able to have healthy debate because at the end of the day what you said is correct; the makers+ market will decide what becomes of it all anyway.

real sexism shouldn't be considered the same type of problem as drm, dlc, qte, gamestop, etc. that's exactly my point in the first place. real sexism, racism, discrimination of any kind should be taken seriously, so when the new age feminists make gaming their battlecry they are doing a complete disservice to what should be an actual important cause.

they make it a joke and actually cause a rift with people that in any normal circunstances would be fighting tooth and nail for equal rights for all people when their target is the tit's size of lara croft or how you can hire prostitutes in gta.

it goes to play right into the professional victims like that sarkeesian con artist that will use the publicity gained from it to personal profit.

unless you're in a 3rd world country nowadays feminism is empty. if you care for equality of rights you should just be a humanist

If the semantics bother you so much then just ignore it and discount the discussion from "real feminism". More often then not its the external groups, like yourself that are labelling and constantly inserting and focusing on "feminism" as  oppose to simply having said discussion, that is one of the main things that fuels a lot of conflict and polarises sides. At the end of the day its someone who may or may not call themselves a "feminist" talking about gender in games, the label has no relevance. If you consider the topic "empty" then don't engage with it, the consequences should be equally as "empty".


i do for the most part not engage with it, i did this time because there was an actualy study quoted that put a crack on the wheel of people i vehemently disagree with



Isn't sexism predicated on a number of factors as opposed to one? I am sure that gamers are aware of some sexist tendencies in the industry and know how to ignore them. Furthermore, the main thing I have an issue within the whole idea of sexism and how feminists view these points is that, if there are certain issues, such as OverWatch female body types being portrayed as sexist, then where is the line that we draw?



" It has never been about acknowledgement when you achieve something. When you are acknowledged, then and only then can you achieve something. Always have your friends first to achieve your goals later." - OnlyForDisplay

even if there was,it shouldn't matter