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Forums - Politics - Indiana Governer signs bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers.

McDonaldsGuy said:
BMaker11 said:

No, you can't. You have to have an actual reason (they're disturbing customers, destroying property, etc). And that reason can't be because of race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. That pesky Civil Rights act gets in the way of that. 

I'm from Indiana. Fuck this law


I think the Civil Rights act outside of government  is unconstitutional. No one should be forced to do anything they don't want to do. I am Jewish, but if a Nazi opened a restaurant I simply wouldn't go there and ask other people not to.

Very good reply. In my opinion, everyone wants their beliefs respected but refuse to respect the belief of others. If a bakery, on religious grounds, would rather not make you a cake then simply find another bakery who will. I am in no way in favor of forcing a business to serve someone where it violates their own religious belief. Do any of you guys think a business should be bankrupted because of an incident like this? I also find it interesting that a lawsuit demanding millions always follows close behind. In this world, you are not owed comfort and you will always encounter those who do not see eye to eye with you. The key is to respect each other and go your separate ways. 



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
Good just as gay people have the right to get married, people have the right to have their own opinions

Yeah, but marriage is not an opinion its just a marital status. The religious have been trying to step in the way of other peoples rights for the longest. Now they've compelled a state to allow them to discriminate in businesses. The lunacy is incredible. They have ever right to have an opinion, but to have public backed allowance to discriminate is intolerable and only pushes society back.

They cannot just spread the good word and leave it at that. They feel compelled to tell people how to live and control them. Its more emotional of a religion than it is spiritual. Emotional things cause us to make some irrational decisions.

The only reason gay marriage is an issue for the gay community or for the religious community is because government is involved in marriage.  This would be a non-issue or at most an issue within each individual church rather than a power struggle between the church and LGBT community at large.  

Can't you see how the gay community is doing what people believe is against their religion?  They are free to believe that whether you agree or not.  

People on the other side should be able to see how gay people just want to get married, and they should have that right.

If government isn't involved both can have more freedom.  Instead we have these 2 sides fighting for decades.



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pokymon90 said:
TruckOSaurus said:
pokymon90 said:


In that case nothing wrong it. There will be plenty of other shops/people that will help with their anniversery.  The government shouldn't make you serve somebody you don't want to serve. I applaud Mike Pence.

If the owner doesn't approve of interracial couples, should he be allowed to turn them away too?

My opinion is you can turn away anybody you want. Why not? You are providing a product and should be able to control where that product goes. Like if I own a video game store I can deny the kid that is acting stuck up and moronic and instead sell my product to somebody who actually acts like a nice person. You own the items/services, you can decide where/how/when/and why it goes. Does it really matter if the racist assholes deny a black person service, or the Catholic church denies gay couples service? In my opinion, no. Sure, they may be bad people, but you shouldn't force people to provide a product to everybody even if they don't want them. It's creates more controversy than it solves.There are plenty of other stores that can provide for you. And if it turns out that a majority of stores deny gays, then I guess the USA should ban gay marriage because the people are obviously not ready for it. The people decide what happens in this country, how it's always been, how it always should be. I for one am fine with all kinds of people. It's not like they are affecting me in anyway.

Ever see the sign " No shoes, no shirt, NO service?" Same thing applies. If you truly believe in free speech and individual freedom, you cannot force a business to serve anyone they decide not to serve. It may suck in many ways but living in a free society means dealing with things you may not agree with.



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I get the feeling the Supreme Court is about to have a chat with Indiana about civil rights.



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I sort of agree with the law.
99% of the time you can't tell someone is gay by looking at them. Do these business' have a gay test before service? They'd get in and get service from the business.
However, if a gay couple comes in and acts flamboyant, then yeah the business has a right to turn them away.
I think this is more of what the law is about.

Don't know if it's been answered, but does this apply to small business only? 



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Azuren said:
I get the feeling the Supreme Court is about to have a chat with Indiana about civil rights.


So you have zero regard for a persons religious belief?



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bobfulci said:

Ever see the sign " No shoes, no shirt, NO service?" Same thing applies. If you truly believe in free speech and individual freedom, you cannot force a business to serve anyone they decide not to serve. It may suck in many ways but living in a free society means dealing with things you may not agree with.


Agree completely. They own the place, you play by their rules. Love seeing all the different viewpoints in this thread though. I am just a firm believer that people should be able to sell to whomever they want. However, if the world was majority black athiest homosexuals and they did not accept white Catholic heterosexual men I guess I would feel kind of sad though. I could see myself complaining in that situation if there wasn't other options. Luckily for gay people, The majority DO NOT deny service to gay people. And like I said earlier, if the majority did deny service that speaks to what the American people want as the people have the power and shouldn't be forced to do something by the minority. That is called Minoritarianism.



pokymon90 said:
bobfulci said:

Ever see the sign " No shoes, no shirt, NO service?" Same thing applies. If you truly believe in free speech and individual freedom, you cannot force a business to serve anyone they decide not to serve. It may suck in many ways but living in a free society means dealing with things you may not agree with.


Agree completely. They own the place, you play by their rules. Love seeing all the different viewpoints in this thread though. I am just a firm believer that people should be able to sell to whomever they want. However, if the world was majority black athiest homosexuals and they did not accept white Catholic heterosexual men I guess I would feel kind of sad though. I could see myself complaining in that situation if there wasn't other options. Luckily for gay people, The majority DO NOT deny service to gay people. And like I said earlier, if the majority did deny service that speaks to what the American people want as the people have the power and shouldn't be forced to do something by the minority. That is called Minoritarianism.


even more luckily for most of us, laws like this don't last and being gay is protected from discrimination in many places, right up there with race, sex religion and more.

do you have any idea how many laws a person running a business already has to follow? and by forming a business and getting a business licens or forming some sort of LLC they have in order to gain various protections under the law, giving up some of their freedoms of what they can do as well.

Compairing it to no shirt no shoes no service is a joke. There are big differences between dress codes and denial of service over sexual orientation. People can still refuse service to people who are loud and obnoxious.

And focing people who already have a business to not refuse service to someone for any of the various protected statuses is hardly being forced by the minority, we have protections for them so that we don't have dictatorships of the majority. It's easy to say hey you have other options when all the options are avaliable to you from a position of privalege.

in your society where people can discriminate would you force them to post signs saying that they deny sevice to whomever they deny it to, or would even that be to terible a thing to force them to do?



Wonktonodi said:
pokymon90 said:


Agree completely. They own the place, you play by their rules. Love seeing all the different viewpoints in this thread though. I am just a firm believer that people should be able to sell to whomever they want. However, if the world was majority black athiest homosexuals and they did not accept white Catholic heterosexual men I guess I would feel kind of sad though. I could see myself complaining in that situation if there wasn't other options. Luckily for gay people, The majority DO NOT deny service to gay people. And like I said earlier, if the majority did deny service that speaks to what the American people want as the people have the power and shouldn't be forced to do something by the minority. That is called Minoritarianism.

 

 

in your society where people can discriminate would you force them to post signs saying that they deny sevice to whomever they deny it to, or would even that be to terible a thing to force them to do?

My whole point is that people should be able to serve who they want. And yes, it would be preferable for businesses to put up signs saying they do not accept somebody to their business. That would fix all problems of an altercation. It's when people try to argue with the people that are providing the service that major altercations happen. It's obvious that they don't want to have you as a customer so why the fuck are you trying to be a customer!?!?! Let them lose your money if they don't want your money. Heard a story a few months ago about a woman complaining that a wedding cake was not made for her because the woman who makes the cakes did not agree with the woman's sexual orientation. Then she started complaining. What is the point in trying to make somebody serve you who didn't want to serve you to begin with?!?!?! It's common sense. Let people do what they want, and go somewhere else. Instead of gay couples making a big deal about one business disrespecting you why not just stop complaining and not go to that business and put your money elsewhere. There is no issue.

Also, I would like to point out that I am pro-people rights. I have friends who are gay. I just look at them as normal people...because that's what they are. However, I am not in a position to hate on people who do not want to serve them because of their beliefs. I may disagree with them, but trying to make them change makes the world a shitty place where everybody has to think the same. That is stupid.



pokymon90 said:

My opinion is you can turn away anybody you want. Why not? You are providing a product and should be able to control where that product goes. Like if I own a video game store I can deny the kid that is acting stuck up and moronic and instead sell my product to somebody who actually acts like a nice person. You own the items/services, you can decide where/how/when/and why it goes. Does it really matter if the racist assholes deny a black person service, or the Catholic church denies gay couples service? In my opinion, no. Sure, they may be bad people, but you shouldn't force people to provide a product to everybody even if they don't want them. It's creates more controversy than it solves.There are plenty of other stores that can provide for you. And if it turns out that a majority of stores deny gays, then I guess the USA should ban gay marriage because the people are obviously not ready for it. The people decide what happens in this country, how it's always been, how it always should be. I for one am fine with all kinds of people. It's not like they are affecting me in anyway.

Sounds great. Please back away because my book with little to no scientific evidence for anything tells me you're an abomination and the state gave me the power to tell you to go to another establishment. You know this power in the hands of many Christians can cause people to leave states, right? Christians are not the persecuted bunch they make themselves out to be. They make up 80% of the country and are very powerful. It would become a civil rights issue because the state would've backed bigotry. Everyone would have a right to freedom of thought and religion, but this is religion imposing itself on others. If it expands that could turn into segregation of gays from neighborhoods. These things spread like a virus. The problem with the religious is they do not think about the weight of their actions on society, so they never truly understand why people say they push society back when they choose to impose their will.