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Forums - Nintendo - Ram requirements did the Wii U in for the next gen titles

torok said:
bdbdbd said:
 


Actually, Nintendo's crazy rules were pretty much the reason the 3rd parties existed after the 80's crash, as the reason for the crash in the first place was the lack of quality control - a little like the market today. With the N64, Nintendo had the belief that only a handful of developers would survive the rising development costs of 3D grafics, which is why they needed to limit the devs more, otherwise them too would go down the gutter as well - and looking at todays market, they were right (albeit a decade too early). Ironically, 3rd parties accuse Nintendo for the problems the 3rd parties created themselves.


Nintendo didn't had quality control with third parties. There is plenty of massively broken NES titles that they just put their seal of approaval on like LGN movie tie-ins. They even made the Power Glove! What they did was to block any title that they believed that would compete with a first party offer. They affected directly the profit of 3rd parties because they manufactured all the cartridges and Nintendo would determine how many copies would be made, not the 3rd party (who actually made the game). Best part? Nintendo manufactured X cartridges and sent you the bill. If they tought your niche title neede 1M copies, better pay for it.

N64 limiting the devs for their own good? Cartridges were more expensive to manufacture, they were making the lose money. The only thing N64 did was block them to do the pre-rendered cutscenes the public wanted.

Nintendo politics just had one objective: guarantee that Nintendo 1st party games had a unfair advantage and guarantee that Nintendo controlled everything around 3rd party games. So, when the first guy promissed something better (Sony), 3rd parties jumped ship praying for better days.


Yes it did - one of the quality control methods was to limit the number of games a single publisher could release on Nintendo's console each year (including Nintendo themselves). This was made in order for the publishers to make games that could sell instead of churning out the crap that caused Atari to crash. If you think the broken NES games were bad, the broken Atari games were horrible.

When you go back to mid 80's, the console race is much more even than it looks like when looking at the totals 3 decades later, as it wasn't until 1989 or so the NES sales exploded. It's not that as a publisher you didn't have any options - you had Sega Master System, Atari 5200 and 7800, Commodore 64 to name a few that had the potential to compete NES (some did beat NES in different regions) - and still the publishers chose Nintendo, which is strange as nobody believed consoles having a future of any kind.

 

It isn't different today - the console manufacturers press the discs and send the bill to publishers. If you pay X amount of license fees per copy anyway, I don't think the medium matters. However, the big plus was, that back then you used Nintendo's distribution channel, meaning that if Nintendo made you a million copies of a niche title, they were going to ship the million copies to stores. One of the problems Nintendo had with cartriges was during the NES days that they weren't able to produce them enough.

 

There wasn't such thing as "pre-rendered cutscene" in the terminology of 90's, they were FMV's, full-motion videos. And even then, the common perception was that the videos should be done with the engine. N64 was designed the same way as previous consoles - to run everything from the program code. Playstation had very different take, as it was designed to stream data directly from the disc. The cartrige ended up hurting Nintendo badly, as PS games were roughly half the price of N64 games at retail - not to mention the not-so-stellar Playstation games in the bargain bin that made pirating them having no point, as the empty disc you would burn the game to was more expensive than the game bought new.

 

The smacktalk of Nintendo's business comes mostly from the guys that either bet the wrong horse back when NES was popular or guys who weren't able to release the amount of games they had wanted due to Nintendo's quality control policy.

I think we both like the small guys, right? If console manufacturers had the policy of one publisher being able to release 5 games a year on a single console, who would suffer and who would benefit? The big budget games would be made anyway, so what would be made less is the cheap shit made just to fill store shelves - that would benefit all the smaller publishers that could have more sales for their games due to smaller competition of the shelf space.

 

IF the third parties are doing so much better with the "Sony practices", why are they going belly-up? Why aren't there as much developers there were during the SNES days? As there should be more of them if Sonys business practices are better for the 3rd parties.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

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S.T.A.G.E. said:

 I am guessing it will be the same for Batman as well.Batman Arkham Knight will be minimum 2GB of ram...but is 4 GB is recommended, so the game should run smoothly on the Xbox One and PS4. Perhaps some negotiations for Arkham Knight could've been made, but graphics requirements could also hamper it, so theres that as well.

Batman Arkham Knight would work on Wii U but the Batmobile would not exceed speeds of 25 mph!      http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/27/why-batman-arkham-knight-isnt-on-wii-u



baloofarsan said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

 I am guessing it will be the same for Batman as well.Batman Arkham Knight will be minimum 2GB of ram...but is 4 GB is recommended, so the game should run smoothly on the Xbox One and PS4. Perhaps some negotiations for Arkham Knight could've been made, but graphics requirements could also hamper it, so theres that as well.

Batman Arkham Knight would work on Wii U but the Batmobile would not exceed speeds of 25 mph!      http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/27/why-batman-arkham-knight-isnt-on-wii-u


LMAO. We know that how the devs work today is to make up excuses instad of solutions.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Probably it's not the only reason for making publishers less willing to port multiplat games, but yes, there are some limits to the things console efficiency can achieve, anyway: a game that needs 8GB main RAM plus 0.5 or 1 or 2GB graphics RAM on PC can run greatly with 8GB total RAM on the most beefed-up consoles, PS4 and XBOne, and with very accurate optimisations and more lightweight OS and a few more compromises on graphics, probably even with 4GB main RAM plus 1 or 2GB graphics RAM Wii U wouldn't have had any problem with any PC game designed from the start to be portable to consoles.
But just 2GB total RAM plus 32MB eDRAM graphics cache is stretching it too much: yes, you can write a set of system libraries and calls so powerful, wide and efficient to greatly reduce the executable code size, but data files for multiplatform games levels remain the same size, or at most they can be scaled down a little reducing the level of detail of the description of each object; if they're still too big, the only solution is dynamic loading, but without hard disk it requires additional work to optimise the access to data to avoid the negative effects of optical drives higher seek times.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Using RAM requirements for PCs to draw conclusions for why a console doesn't get PS3/X360-like versions of current gen games doesn't really work!



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Thing is, you have an amount of RAM you really need. Put a bit simple, let's say your GPU benefits from up to 512MB. But it's actually neither fast enough in terms of shaderpower nor fillrate to utilize 2GB.
So there's just no need for a giant VRAM.
To some degree the same goes for main RAM. Good thing with unified memory is, you can still decide how many you want to use for what.
If Wii U did have lets say a 1,6GHz quadcore and a 640FLOP/s GPU (640 strem processors@500MHz) it could much better utilize more RAM.

Wii U as is doesn't really have that big need for more RAM. Less RAM for the OS would be fine though. Still don't see why it eats up half of the memory, 512MB should be enough.

Wii U is weak compared to PS4One, but actually pretty balanced. Except for the memoryhungry yet slow OS.