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Forums - Gaming Discussion - For Those Who "ONLY" Are Getting/Considering FFXV+XCX, Which Do You Think.....

sc94597 on 26 December 2014
outlawauron said:
sc94597 said:
outlawauron said:

They've made one great game ever, a couple of good games, and some meh games. Not sure how you can make that strecth unless you're giving them credit for all partnerships (Brawl, SRT, etc).

They fit right in with Tri-Ace, Namco, and From Software.

What was SE's great (internally developed) game last generation? Level 5 had DQIX, but what did SE bring to the RPG space that was great? Only game I can think of is TWEWY, and that wasn't an example of the great budgets you were talking about. If you look at Square Enix on metacritic, the highest reviewed games in the past 5 years were final fantasy, dragon quest, chrono trigger remakes/ports to IOS and non-RPG's from Eidos. I think that was spemanig's point. Despite SE's illustrious history, they did very little great last generation and it wasn't their high-budget endeavors that they were acclaimed for, while Monolith Soft with Nintendo's modest budget created their "one great game." SE's last "great" high-budget role-playing game was in the PS2 era, on the other hand. The best Japanese developed RPG's of last generation were developed by Monolith, Atlus, Level 5 and From-Software on relatively modest budgets - not Square-Enix's largesse. It seems to me that as long as a developer has a stable budget source and freedom (which were Monolith's problems) the size of the budget matters very little in what they can achieve other than some sacrifices in aesthetic choices (whether to use CGI vs. in-game cutscenes for example.) 

I never mentioned just last generation, but I still would pick Square. Even my love affair with FF13 and FF14 aside. There's plenty more that they were involved that were a lot of fun like Crisis Core, War of the Lions, KH: BBS, Dissidia, Lord of Vermillion (JP only), 4 Heroes of Light, and Type 0. It's harder to compare a publisher/developer to a sole developer, but it's not like Square wasn't producing good games last generation. All of the above (and Last Remnant arguably) are better than Project X Zone and Disaster: Day of Crisis (ie. 2 of the last 3 games they've developed). 

Spemanig mentioned last generation though. From your post it seemed to imply that a RPG developer needs an A-tier budget to produce multiple great Role-Playing games and only Level 5 and Square-Enix are capable of those budgets on a consistent basis. However, the opposing point was that despite having these huge budgets Square-Enix wasn't anywhere better off in producing these games than other developers (I would give the trophy for last generation to Atlus, to be honest.) I ,  in particular, wasn't commenting on the good games (Monolith has produced more good games than bad, its entire Xeno meta series being quite solid and Baten Kaitos and Soma Bringer were "good".) I was more commenting on the great games, which you mentioned Monolith only produced one (I'd argue Xenogears and Xenoblade are two great games.) That made me wonder what was the "great" game, not just good game, that Square-Enix produced last generation? Atlus had Persona, Monolith had Xenoblade, From Software had Souls, and Level 5 had Dragon Quest IX (which honestly I do think SE should be given some credit as well.) The only Role-playing game by Square Enix that seemed to get universal praise was TWEWY. 



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Materia-Blade on 26 December 2014
Jumpin said:

1. Will Have The Bigger World? (In Actually Traveling Land Size) - Xenoblade, and there will be a lot more to do in the world too.

2. Will Have More A Depth Feel to It? (Talking World, as in Landscapes/Citys/etc) - Xenoblade, FF games haven't really had much depth in a very long time, and FF15 looks fairly shallow so far. Xenoblade will most likely have FAR more depth to it.

3. Will Have The Better Combat? - Considering Xenoblade for Wii already has much better combat, both more complex and smoother in execution, the new Xenoblade should absolutely demolish FF in this category. 

4. Will Innovate better Gameplay? - Xenoblade, easily, it'll likely be a much tighter game with much much more to do.

5. Will Have the Better Story? - Considering Xenoblade is written by the same guy that did Xenogears, and FF stories haven't been good in over a decade, Xenoblade.

6. Will Take Up Most of Gamers time? (Replay value+Longevity) - Probably Xenoblade, I don't think FF15 will even be even half as long as the original Xenoblade. If it is, it will be due to a bunch of fluff like FF13, which was a 5-6 hour game with 30 hours of fluff.

7. Will Have The Better Enemy Designs? (pls note this isnt graphically, we all know FFXV wins [X1/PS4]) - No idea what this means if not graphically.

8. Will Have The Best SideQuest? - This one goes to Xenoblade easily, not even arguable. FF games are not known for their sidequests, Xenoblade is rich with them, there is stuff to do everywhere you go.

9.  Overall Better Game? FFXV/XCX......... Both, Who Cares!!! - I don't think Final Fantasy 15 will be very good based on the series track record since the PS2 days. Like FF13, it will be flashy, but boring. Xenoblade was one of the greatest RPGs of all time, and didn't do 15% of what the next Xenoblade is going to do.

10. Will You Get Day 1? (FFXV/XCX/Both!) - Xenoblade day 1, no plans for FF15.

 

All in all, FF15 is just the latest example of an FF game to be massively overhyped. We saw last generation what happened with FF13, and Xenoblade came out and delivered a far better experience. Xenoblade X has had MUCH more time and care put into its development, and much more love from the development staff as well. I fully expect FF15 to fall flat, and Xenoblade to surprise even those with the highest expectations.

enemy designs = how cool and imaginative they look. not a graphical comparison.



Clyde32 on 26 December 2014
outlawauron said:

I never mentioned just last generation, but I still would pick Square. Even my love affair with FF13 and FF14 aside. There's plenty more that they were involved that were a lot of fun like Crisis Core, War of the Lions, KH: BBS, Dissidia, Lord of Vermillion (JP only), 4 Heroes of Light, and Type 0. It's harder to compare a publisher/developer to a sole developer, but it's not like Square wasn't producing good games last generation. All of the above (and Last Remnant arguably) are better than Project X Zone and Disaster: Day of Crisis (ie. 2 of the last 3 games they've developed). 

The main difference in Monolith Soft is Tetsuya Takahashi.



Zekkyou on 26 December 2014
Samus Aran said:

Not irrelevant at all. I can guarantee you Monolith Soft will get this game right on their first try, without needing patches. ;)

Besides, the re-released version still didn't get high praise from the fans, despite being a lot better than the first version.

Can't comment on FF fans at larger, but it's been a huge hit with MMO fans (which is ultimately all that matters.). One of the most successful MMOs in years, and has gotten better and better with each patch. I'm sure SE are enjoying all that sweet sweet subscription money



sc94597 on 26 December 2014

I do have to say after reading some post in this thread, I'm quite excited for both games. :) Hopefully this makes the genre popular again. JRPG's definitely seem to be moving forward.



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VXIII on 26 December 2014
sc94597 said:
I do have to say after reading some post in this thread, I'm quite excited for both games. :) Hopefully this makes the genre popular again. JRPG's definitely seem to be moving forward.

And from the look of things, turn-based combat won't be a part of that future, at least for big budget games. Turn-base fans should get used to small RPGs from time to time.



outlawauron on 26 December 2014
Samus Aran said:
outlawauron said:

rrelevant to your statement and also irrelevant because FF14 doesn't exist in that form.

Not irrelevant at all. I can guarantee you Monolith Soft will get this game right on their first try, without needing patches. ;)

Besides, the re-released version still didn't get high praise from the fans, despite being a lot better than the first version.

I'm sorry Samus, you're just full of crap. I know I should have expected this when I replied to you, but you're either lying or just have no idea what you're talking about. FF14 is pretty much universally loved, has fantastic player feedback, and continues to grow.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

sc94597 on 26 December 2014
VXIII said:
sc94597 said:
I do have to say after reading some post in this thread, I'm quite excited for both games. :) Hopefully this makes the genre popular again. JRPG's definitely seem to be moving forward.

And from the look of things, turn-based combat won't be a part of that future, at least for big budget games. Turn-base fans should get used to small RPGs from time to time.

Turn-based games will still be here in Shin Megami Tensei, Dragon Quest, Pokemon, Persona, Etrian Odyssey and Bravely Default. All of which are great games, and some are highly successfull. :) So I'm not worried about that, and neither should people who only like turn-based RPGs. I'm not a huge fan of KH's take on action RPG (which feel much more Action than RPG to me), but it seems to be more strategic in FFXV. Xenoblade has a non-action real-time system (see: FFXII/XI/XIV/Any MMORPG/Certain WRPGS) I think these systems are nice compromises and fit well. I like genre diversity, and ideally all of these systems should exist: turn-based, real-time, strategic, and action-oriented. 



outlawauron on 26 December 2014
Clyde32 said:
outlawauron said:

I never mentioned just last generation, but I still would pick Square. Even my love affair with FF13 and FF14 aside. There's plenty more that they were involved that were a lot of fun like Crisis Core, War of the Lions, KH: BBS, Dissidia, Lord of Vermillion (JP only), 4 Heroes of Light, and Type 0. It's harder to compare a publisher/developer to a sole developer, but it's not like Square wasn't producing good games last generation. All of the above (and Last Remnant arguably) are better than Project X Zone and Disaster: Day of Crisis (ie. 2 of the last 3 games they've developed). 

The main difference in Monolith Soft is Tetsuya Takahashi.

He's an up and coming director. He's only directed 4 games (two as executive director), but he's had some success. Good for him in making some late career gains despite being in the industry for 20+ years.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

Samus Aran on 26 December 2014
outlawauron said:
Samus Aran said:
outlawauron said:

rrelevant to your statement and also irrelevant because FF14 doesn't exist in that form.

Not irrelevant at all. I can guarantee you Monolith Soft will get this game right on their first try, without needing patches. ;)

Besides, the re-released version still didn't get high praise from the fans, despite being a lot better than the first version.

I'm sorry Samus, you're just full of crap. I know I should have expected this when I replied to you, but you're either lying or just have no idea what you're talking about. FF14 is pretty much universally loved, has fantastic player feedback, and continues to grow.

Except FF XIV isn't universally loved. The JRPG of last generation was definitely Xenoblade Chronicles. 

It didn't even sell all that well according to VGCHARTZ (if the numbers are accurate). So how on earth is this universally loved? Or is FF really that small of a franchise? 

I have no doubt this game made SE a lot of money with the subscriptions, but that's irrelevant. 

FFXIII sold over 7 million copies according to VGCHARTZ while XIV only sold around 2 million in total. That's not all that impressive considering it released on 3 different platforms.