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Forums - Sales - Amazon US December bestsellers thread - updated 01/01/15. AC X1 bundle #1, PS4 #15 & Destiny bundle #90

Insidb on 01 January 2015
Welfare said:
Insidb said:
Based upon last month's Amazon rankings, we should expect 2 things:

1) Another X1 win.
2) A smaller margin of victory.

Isn't that what we all predicted (because the PS4 price never dropped)?


How'd you come to the conclusion for #2? November had more PS4 skus than this month in the top 100, and the gap for NPD was atleast 400k. Following that logic, the gap should be bigger.

I went off of this simple logic:

November: X1 at 2, 82, and 100 & PS4 at 31, 48, and 79

December: X1 at 1 & PS4 at 15

While the X1 and PS4 had a lot more SKUs in November, all except 2 basically fell in the bottom 50 (I know that 48 comes before 50 lol). Similarly, in that month, all PS4 SKUs fell int he bottom 70, and X1 dominated at 2. In December, the X1 and PS4 were both in the top 15 with only a 14 spot margin. If you assume uniform distibrutions for both months, the PS4 won November by a significant margin (70+53+22=145 vs. 99+19+1=119), and the X1 won December by a smaller margin 100 vs 86). Since we know that the former didn't actually happen, the fall off from spot to spot is non-linear. Consequently, by virtue of the X1 and PS4 being much more closely situated at much higher positions this month, I'd expect a smaller margin of victory for the X1.



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Aphelion on 01 January 2015
Dark_Feanor said:
Aphelion said:
Puppyroach said:

You do know this is the same tactic MS ran with 360 as well, don't you? I am not saying it is good or bad, but it has benefitted them in the past. Also, I am not sure they are loosing money, since they have only made a temporary drop by 50$, otherwise they have to SKU: one with Kinect for 499$ and one without for 399$. And you also act as if PS4 hasn't had any deals this holiday, which I find interesting :).

360 sold well all year, x1 does not.  

Deals bundles happen each year, since the dawn of consoles.  3 price cuts in one year  ($400, $350, $329) is someting else.


I think you don´t know that the PS4 hardware has been selling with a very small profit (if at all) margin for months. Does it makes the PS4 early lead illegitimate?

MS lost almost $100 for each 360 sold in the first two or so year, Sony more than $200 with the PS3.

Your line of argument doesn´t make sense and fells only like a fanboy pulling straws.


Reality is not an argument, look in the mirror at whos using fanboy straw pulling arguments.  Do i give a shit about 360 and PS3 loses, none are debating that here are they, its the pro xbox crowd that has to grasp at straws of yester year to defend a weak product.



jlmurph2 on 01 January 2015
Insidb said:
Welfare said:
Insidb said:
Based upon last month's Amazon rankings, we should expect 2 things:

1) Another X1 win.
2) A smaller margin of victory.

Isn't that what we all predicted (because the PS4 price never dropped)?


How'd you come to the conclusion for #2? November had more PS4 skus than this month in the top 100, and the gap for NPD was atleast 400k. Following that logic, the gap should be bigger.

I went off of this simple logic:

November: X1 at 2, 82, and 100 & PS4 at 31, 48, and 79

December: X1 at 1 & PS4 at 15

While the X1 and PS4 had a lot more SKUs in November, all except 2 basically fell in the bottom 50 (I know that 48 comes before 50 lol). Similarly, in that month, all PS4 SKUs fell int he bottom 70, and X1 dominated at 2. In December, the X1 and PS4 were both in the top 15 with only a 14 spot margin. If you assume uniform distibrutions for both months, the PS4 won November by a significant margin (70+53+22=145 vs. 99+19+1=119), and the X1 won December by a smaller margin 100 vs 86). Since we know that the former didn't actually happen, the fall off from spot to spot is non-linear. Consequently, by virtue of the X1 and PS4 being much more closely situated at much higher positions this month, I'd expect a smaller margin of victory for the X1.

You missed the PS4 at 11. Theory makes no sense now.



Insidb on 01 January 2015
Aphelion said:
Insidb said:

I think MS revived the brand by damaging its viability. From a corporate perspective, they are throwing good money after bad; when you have a product that you have to sell at a loss to move, you usually discontinue the line. From a brand perspective, all that matters is that the consumer has confidence in the product and buys it. I'd hate to be Phil Spencer right now, because there must be immense pressure to make the X1 a viable product in 2015. Regardless, the brand value has been salvaged, and I would suspect that other companies would have to pay a premium to secure it from MS.


They revived the X1, at the cost of the brand.

Im confident that you dont buy a abox anytime but on sale, would you deny that ?

I think you misunderstand what "brand value" actually is. Let me make two examples to illustrate it: 1) When K-Mart was in the process of declaring bankruptcy, people still shopped there, because they trusted the K-Mart brand. Their competition and overexpansion diminished their market share and led them to fiscal collapse. Due to their extremely high brand value, they were able to secure investment capital to resuscitate their business, post declaration. 2) The Kodak brand was purchased about 2 years ago and applied to another company's line of security cameras. Their cameras sold exceedingly well, because buyers trusted the Kodak brand. The only reason the brand was available was because Kodak went out of business.

In summation, the cuts were bad for business, but they were not bad for the brand. I highly doubt the average consumer associates the XBox with a product "you dont buy...anytime but on sale."



Insidb on 01 January 2015
jlmurph2 said:
Insidb said:
Welfare said:
Insidb said:
Based upon last month's Amazon rankings, we should expect 2 things:

1) Another X1 win.
2) A smaller margin of victory.

Isn't that what we all predicted (because the PS4 price never dropped)?


How'd you come to the conclusion for #2? November had more PS4 skus than this month in the top 100, and the gap for NPD was atleast 400k. Following that logic, the gap should be bigger.

I went off of this simple logic:

November: X1 at 2, 82, and 100 & PS4 at 31, 48, and 79

December: X1 at 1 & PS4 at 15

While the X1 and PS4 had a lot more SKUs in November, all except 2 basically fell in the bottom 50 (I know that 48 comes before 50 lol). Similarly, in that month, all PS4 SKUs fell int he bottom 70, and X1 dominated at 2. In December, the X1 and PS4 were both in the top 15 with only a 14 spot margin. If you assume uniform distibrutions for both months, the PS4 won November by a significant margin (70+53+22=145 vs. 99+19+1=119), and the X1 won December by a smaller margin 100 vs 86). Since we know that the former didn't actually happen, the fall off from spot to spot is non-linear. Consequently, by virtue of the X1 and PS4 being much more closely situated at much higher positions this month, I'd expect a smaller margin of victory for the X1.

You missed the PS4 at 11. Theory makes no sense now.

Good catch: based on that, I would expect a wider margin for X1 this month on Amazon. In the same vein, it will probably be very close to November's then.



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Aphelion on 01 January 2015
Insidb said:
Aphelion said:
Insidb said:

I think MS revived the brand by damaging its viability. From a corporate perspective, they are throwing good money after bad; when you have a product that you have to sell at a loss to move, you usually discontinue the line. From a brand perspective, all that matters is that the consumer has confidence in the product and buys it. I'd hate to be Phil Spencer right now, because there must be immense pressure to make the X1 a viable product in 2015. Regardless, the brand value has been salvaged, and I would suspect that other companies would have to pay a premium to secure it from MS.


They revived the X1, at the cost of the brand.

Im confident that you dont buy a abox anytime but on sale, would you deny that ?

I think you misunderstand what "brand value" actually is. Let me make two examples to illustrate it: 1) When K-Mart was in the process of declaring bankruptcy, people still shopped there, because they trusted the K-Mart brand. Their competition and overexpansion diminished their market share and led them to fiscal collapse. Due to their extremely high brand value, they were able to secure investment capital to resuscitate their business, post declaration. 2) The Kodak brand was purchased about 2 years ago and applied to another company's line of security cameras. Their cameras sold exceedingly well, because buyers trusted the Kodak brand. The only reason the brand was available was because Kodak went out of business.

In summation, the cuts were bad for business, but they were not bad for the brand. I highly doubt the average consumer associates the XBox with a product "you dont buy...anytime but on sale."


Would work great if MS is to shut down xbox and sale it.  Maybe thats their plan all along.

Correct me if im wrong, majority of X1 sales came from two months of discount sales.  They are as i alreasy said conditioning peopel that xbox is a buy while on sale product.  



Insidb on 01 January 2015
Aphelion said:
Insidb said:
Aphelion said:
Insidb said:

I think MS revived the brand by damaging its viability. From a corporate perspective, they are throwing good money after bad; when you have a product that you have to sell at a loss to move, you usually discontinue the line. From a brand perspective, all that matters is that the consumer has confidence in the product and buys it. I'd hate to be Phil Spencer right now, because there must be immense pressure to make the X1 a viable product in 2015. Regardless, the brand value has been salvaged, and I would suspect that other companies would have to pay a premium to secure it from MS.


They revived the X1, at the cost of the brand.

Im confident that you dont buy a abox anytime but on sale, would you deny that ?

I think you misunderstand what "brand value" actually is. Let me make two examples to illustrate it: 1) When K-Mart was in the process of declaring bankruptcy, people still shopped there, because they trusted the K-Mart brand. Their competition and overexpansion diminished their market share and led them to fiscal collapse. Due to their extremely high brand value, they were able to secure investment capital to resuscitate their business, post declaration. 2) The Kodak brand was purchased about 2 years ago and applied to another company's line of security cameras. Their cameras sold exceedingly well, because buyers trusted the Kodak brand. The only reason the brand was available was because Kodak went out of business.

In summation, the cuts were bad for business, but they were not bad for the brand. I highly doubt the average consumer associates the XBox with a product "you dont buy...anytime but on sale."


Would work great if MS is to shut down xbox and sale it.  Maybe thats their plan all along.

Correct me if im wrong, majority of X1 sales came from two months of discount sales.  They are as i alreasy said conditioning peopel that xbox is a buy while on sale product.  

I have always been a PS fan, but that doesn't strike me as a "great," much less likely outcome. It also doesn't strike me as the type of insane investment that a company as successful as MS would ever make.

The fact that they sold a ton of consoles at a reduced price is largely contingent upon market context. MS was competing with a lower cost, more powerful alternative, so they reduced the price to a point where people would choose the X1 over the PS4. That has a whole lot to do with the market space and very, very little to do with customers adopting the perception that the XBox is a brand you only buy on sale.



Aphelion on 01 January 2015
Insidb said:

I have always been a PS fan, but that doesn't strike me as a "great," much less likely outcome. It also doesn't strike me as the type of insane investment that a company as successful as MS would ever make.

The fact that they sold a ton of consoles at a reduced price is largely contingent upon market context. MS was competing with a lower cost, more powerful alternative, so they reduced the price to a point where people would choose the X1 over the PS4. That has a whole lot to do with the market space and very, very little to do with customers adopting the perception that the XBox is a brand you only buy on sale.


just wait till new years sales plummet, and ill be plain as day to see. 

Though ill give you it that could just be X1 being weak product and selling low.  Not yet the perception of buy only when on sale.  



Insidb on 01 January 2015
Aphelion said:
Insidb said:

I have always been a PS fan, but that doesn't strike me as a "great," much less likely outcome. It also doesn't strike me as the type of insane investment that a company as successful as MS would ever make.

The fact that they sold a ton of consoles at a reduced price is largely contingent upon market context. MS was competing with a lower cost, more powerful alternative, so they reduced the price to a point where people would choose the X1 over the PS4. That has a whole lot to do with the market space and very, very little to do with customers adopting the perception that the XBox is a brand you only buy on sale.


just wait till new years sales plummet, and ill be plain as day to see. 

If the sales plummet in 2015, why would it be anything other than consumers reverting back to the aformentioned cost comparison judgment. Do you really believe that people won't be buying $400 X1s because they think it's an on-sale only brand? I do not.



Aphelion on 01 January 2015
Insidb said:
Aphelion said:
Insidb said:

I have always been a PS fan, but that doesn't strike me as a "great," much less likely outcome. It also doesn't strike me as the type of insane investment that a company as successful as MS would ever make.

The fact that they sold a ton of consoles at a reduced price is largely contingent upon market context. MS was competing with a lower cost, more powerful alternative, so they reduced the price to a point where people would choose the X1 over the PS4. That has a whole lot to do with the market space and very, very little to do with customers adopting the perception that the XBox is a brand you only buy on sale.


just wait till new years sales plummet, and ill be plain as day to see. 

If the sales plummet in 2015, why would it be anything other than consumers reverting back to the aformentioned cost comparison judgment. Do you really believe that people won't be buying $400 X1s because they think it's an on-sale only brand? I do not.

Its whats happening, you dont waste $ on a xbox.  You wait to get a deal, its what many on here already learned and think of it.  Its becoming the way they see the xbox.