To me it boils down to the Ford / Chevy analogy again when it comes to moves. If you removed all but the best moves you are left with a game like Smash, i.e. very limited moves set.  People cannot suprise you with a move when you only have a few that can be thrown at you.  I thought it was you earlier that talked about messing with your oppenents head, that is where some of those moves come into play in my Tekken experience.

As for the crack pipe line, it was just an expression - I've noticed some users on this site are very thin skinned, but come on If I find some of the moves hard to pull off (which for some odd reason when I am playing on the right some moves are harder for ME to pull off) and you say they are easy I could take offense to that.  Sorry but I don't buy into the whole politically correct movement we have been stuck with since the 90's. Life is messy, there is no need to be an A-hole, but we can't playfully jab at one another ... opps sorry talk about way off track.

Do you still play it much anymore Typhoon?  I'd love to play with someone good.  I crush most of my friends that I play with (if I'm trying, I sometiomes tank and give them wins so they will keep playing), I've only played against one other person when it comes to console play that beat me 2 out of 3 matches on average.

It is nothing like cars in the US.  There really are too many characters, and there are too many moves per character.  I only use four characters in TTT2.  I use christie a bit at times, but I've forgotten how to use her very well.

Anyway.  I use Yoshimitsu a lot.  He has a ton of different moves, for very impractical situations.  Do you know how difficult it is to fight against a good Yoshimitsu character?  You need to be able to defend properly.  You can't do that if you have no idea what a character is going to throw at you.

Many characters have 3 hit strings.  Some are HHH, some are MLH, some might be LML, and whatever else.  If you don't know what's coming, you cannot properly defend.  If you know an attack string had 3 high attacks, if you're sitting back and blocking, you don't know how to play or aren't familiar with the match-up.

It's not as simple as, "if you don't like a character, don't use them."  What will you do when it's time to fight them?  Lose?  Well...  Yes, that is what you do until you figure something out.

I hate Steve Fox, as a character.  Some people really don't know how to use him, and in the beginning, I lost over stupid things.  Guy does the same three, or four attacks, and he thinks he's good because he's winning.  As much as I hated that character, I had to learn how to properly punish all his crap.  So I went to the training mode, practice fuzzy guarding against certain strings, learned what I could counter with Feng Wei.  I still hate Steve, but it is a much easier fight.  Now do that again for the other 50+ characters.

It is too much.  Plain and simple.  I hate fighting Lars, with his quick, ambiguous strings, and seemingly random lows.  I hate fighting Bob with his "Speed and weight."  I even hate Jack because of that silly debugger that I struggle to block on reaction.  It's a lot of information for the player to take it.  Sure, Debugger is easily punishable on hit, but I don't always see it.  I tend to be okay as long as I'm not fighting Nina, Kazuya, Lars, Bob, or Paul.  Those characters tend to give me the most problems.  But, I understand why some people just don't like that.  Far too much information to process.  Then, when you try using one of those characters, to counter-pick, which is a bad idea, you end up losing again and getting discouraged.

Most people play fighting games by means of button mashing, and wanting to see cool stuff happen.  They do not understand that it is a complicated mind game, and that attacks, strategies have an assigned number of frames, and attributes etc.  If you pick a character that your opponent fully understands, and you are a beginner, no amount of luck, outside of their controller completely dying will ever lead you to win a 3 round match against them.

I'm glad Tekken 7 is winding down.  I'm sick of all those old Tekken 2 characters coming back every game.  I'm sick of Ganryu.  No body likes him.  You could spend development time making the game better if you didn't have to work so hard at bringing everyone back and making more new characters.  If you're not Yoshimitsu, Heihachi, Paul, or Nina, you don't need to be in every Tekken game.  And technically speaking, Yoshimitsu doesn't count because it's a different character named Yoshimitsu in every Tekken game.

No, that's not correct.  Attacks for a character are like tools in a box.  Cars are more personal and for personal preference.  You drive a car because you like it and it suits you.  It may be necessary to pick a car for a certain job, but, you still change colors, window tint, rims, etc. to your liking.

When it comes to playing a fighting game, you do an attack because it's appropriate for the situation.  When situation changes, you change your attack.

Bolded that is exactly what I'm talking about if you cut him down to 30 moves then you have a good idea exaclty what he is going to throw at you. 

As for the characters it sounds kind of like "i don't want to take the time to learn them" not a very solid argument.  That would be akin to you saying well the next Tekken should be designed only around me and the charachters I like to use any one elses favorite characters be damned.  And for the record if you know what you are doing Ganryu isn't terrible. Sorry I don't want to be a dick but it sounds like you either don't have the capacity to learn the majority of each characters moves or you're just too lazy to.

Sorry Typhoon I've enjoyed chatting but I have a friend coming over and I need to get ready for her. We will resume this later if you like, have a good one.

Yoshimitsu is a lot different that the other characters.  He has a lot of specific moves for different situations and is meant to be played almost completely random.  He has more unblockable attacks than anyone else in the game.  

I'm not saying Ganryu is a terrible character.  What I'm saying is that I don't like him as a character.  He is obsessive over Julia, and he's just some random fat old guy.  Julia is at least 25 years younger than him.  She doesn't like him, hardly notices him, but, he's obsessive... looking at her from far away.  It's not comical, it's not humorous, it's just weird, and very off-putting.  Especially in TTT2, when he's peaking at her change through an open door,  It's really stupid.

And, just so you know, Tekken 7 does have all the characters I like.  It has Lili, Feng Wei, and Leo.  No Yoshimitsu yet, but I didn't start using him until TTT2 anyway.  I'd imagine they wont reveal him until they have the new character model, since each Yoshimitsu that appears is a new character.

As for not wanting to take the time to learn the character, that IS a valid argument.  Most people who will buy the game feels that way.  You have to know when you're in the 10% and what the rest of the community wants who play the game.  I can be competetive.  I compete.  You cannot say to me, "Oh, you're incompetent," when you yourself don't have friends on your level.  Who keeps you on your feet?  The AI?

Me and my friends like Tekken, but we aren't playing it as much anymore.  One friend went downtown for a tournament.  He fights me so, he knew what kind of tricks to expect.  It gives me a chance to bait him, because when I know he's expecting me to do A, I always do B.  But, he was fighting feng, who, tried doing some of the same things most good feng players do.  He expected A, got A, and was ready for A, and beat the guy.

These are people who, if you find something that works, they go into training mode, with you tactic, and figure out everything about it.  I was using Lili's matterhorn cannon one day.  Crushed everything from mids to highs, and got good damage and meaty combo set-ups.  Did it as often as I could.  The very next day, doing matterhorn went from being a good solution to a guaranteed loss.

Combo didn't matter anymore, if I couldn't find another way to set it up.  Now, that I can't do it whenever I want, I'm a lot more careful when I do it.  However, despite being my favorite character, I've dropped Lili, and stuck to Feng Wei and Yoshimitsu.  Both are much harder characters to use than Lili, but Lili is not a good character.

With all that said.  You think you're good because you play people who don't know how to properly defend against you.  If you do an attack that has 18 frames on block, your friends might let you off, thinking it's safe.  Not me.

Anyway, I play all sorts of fighters. I have Soul Calibur II HD, Soul Calibur V, Mortal Kombat 9, Arcade Kollection, BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma, Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown, Dead or Alive 5, Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection Online, Tekken 6, Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, and many, other fighters.  So, no, I'm not going to take the time to learn absolutely everyone in TTT2, with so many other fighting games.  I barely listed half of them.

Of all my friends, I'm probably the worst at Tekken.  However, I'm still not bad by any stretch.

I bought it for Lili... I am not dissapointed or anything, all good.

Maybe part of our difference in opinion stems from me starting Tekken with the first one, where is seems you started later in the series.  You should try the original if you haven't , you may like it (or not and understand where I am coming from) it has a small roster and no where near the depth of moves. It seems closer to what you want. 

I'm not trying to say you're incompetent if I had to guess I'd guess you are pretty good. I also don't mean to make it sound as if I think I am good, I know I'm better than the people I play with, but even if I were king of the morons I'd still be a moron.

Anywho, cheers.

Who hadn't played the first game?  It and the Tekken 2 lack damage scaling.  The games are slow, stiff, and have aged terribly.  I can hardly get into Tekken 5 anynmore, let alone 4, 3, Tag 1, or the 1st two.  Yoshimitsu gets easy kills off stabbing and 10 hit combos.  Side-stepping is non-existent, and Tekken 1 and 2 are both 2.5D games.  And attacks are lacking.  Any type of set-up I know, or actvely do in TTT2 isn't possible in any other game.  Tekken 6 included.  It leaves me in a state where I have to remember what moves are specifically unavaliable, and have to improvise new stuff on the spot.

I also don't have any of my main characters, in games before Tekken 5, so I'm basically stuck using Yoshimitsu.

I play lots of fighting games.  I adjust to what is avaliable.  I bought Tekken 2 from PSN when it was on sale for .99 cents.  I never play it.  Not interested.  Same for Virtua Fighter 2.

Anyway, don't keep this thread alive over this conversation, just PM me this isn't a chat room.  But, I felt compelled to make one last post.