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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Watch Dogs shifts almost no copies on its Wii U launch in UK

RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

The thing you don't want to admit to yourself is the Wii U/3DS IS part of the Wii/DS cycle. It's simply the other side of it. 

There's nothing inherintely wrong with this business philosophy, it's fine. But you have to be prepared for high highs and some low freaking lows. 

That's the inherint nature of position yourself in a "trying to catch lightning in a bottle" formula. There are ups and downs to it. We're just seeing the down side to it. 

Microsoft is doing OK, they made a mistake (similar to Nintendo) of betting too heavily on a gimmick. Had they not done this they would be fairly close, perhaps even leading Sony in North America and Europe right now because Sony's first year of software has been sh*t quite frankly. 

There's nothing special that Sony did, they just watched the other two implode on themselves by banking on gimmicks. 

Having said that though I notice you don't want to touch any part of the Apple part of the equation here. I don't care how novel Wii Sports was, even if Nintendo came up with 50 of those games today, they would run into a brick wall called smartphones/tablets. Nobody needs a Wii today ... it was neccessary when the only thing a casual could play games on was a PS2/XBox/GameCube and there were no games being made for their needs at all. 

Today there are hundreds of accessible games as simple or even simpler than Wii Sports to play available in everyone's pocket all day long for free. As such the Wii's original "mission" has been taken to its logical endpoint, it just so happened that Nintendo couldn't take it all the way there. They never would have the forsight to make a phone like Apple did and get the jump on that before anyone else. It was always Apple that was going to win the race, no matter what Nintendo did. 

The GameCube didn't have a gimmick, but it had plenty of bad execution, like I dunno, who's genius idea was it to make a PURPLE lunchbox as the design? Who was that supposed to appeal to? The gay (not that there's anything wrong with that) Ikea-chic art house crowd? Just because you don't rely on gimmicks doesn't mean you can abandon common sense. 

You know that someone is in trouble with his argument when it relies on the color and shape of a console. But let's start at the top.

The Wii's main task was to reverse the trend of declining home console sales for Nintendo. Nintendo realized that their controllers got increasingly more complicated with each passing generation, effectively cutting off the pipeline of new gamers, thus leaving them only with fans who stayed on board as well as kids (they are more willing to learn than adults, because they have plenty of time on their hands). This means that the Wii Remote was not created as a gimmick controller, but as a means to an end. The console had to convey the message that video games don't require sitting down for an hour to learn the controls before you can have fun. However, the controller was only one piece of the puzzle; after all, any video game hardware is useless without games coming along with it; and those games preferably have to be new IPs because that way they have a clean slate and don't face any prejudice. Wii Sports was the perfect game to launch with the Wii because it kept the message consistent; the system could be understood within seconds. The success proved Nintendo's line of thinking right.

Then comes the Wii U which contradicts the Wii. The Gamepad is not only the problem that led to declining home console sales for Nintendo, it emphasizes them even more. On top of that, Nintendo couldn't be bothered to make games that give the Gamepad value, or rather they didn't because it isn't really possible. The Gamepad is a gimmick controller, unlike the Wii Remote which never left any room for doubt that it serves a purpose. This means that your premise that the Wii U is a continuation of the Wii is dead wrong. In reality it's the polar opposite. Why? Because it's like Miyamoto said, doing what is good for business is boring to him; and as the man in charge of software, he also greatly influences Nintendo's hardware. That's just how it is inside of Nintendo: The hardware is shaped according to the software developers' wishes.

The reason why I don't want to talk about Apple is because they are irrelevant in the big picture. The 3DS and Wii U would have never come close to the sales of their predecessors even if there was no Apple. I am sure of that because Nintendo went down the road of irrelevance already long before Apple was a thing. Nevermind that free browser games on the PC were a thing before and during the DS/Wii era. Those simple, accessible and free games weren't detrimental to Nintendo because they couldn't replicate what the DS and Wii did. You want to argue that the Wii Sports audience moved to smartphones and tablets because they can get their fix there, yet there have never been any news about popular sports games on those devices. The truth of the matter is that Nintendo showed that audience the middle finger with the Wii U, so that's why Nintendo lost their grip on that audience. Nevermind that 2010 marked the last year of Nintendo putting out some solid games (Wii Party and Donkey Kong Country Returns), so by the time the Wii U launched, Nintendo was cold coffee without anything to show that could change their fortunes.

And now comes the moment to apply my reasoning across the entirety of Nintendo's history. My premise is that an accessible controller coupled with the right software (i.e. new IPs; and by "new" I mean new, not spinoffs) leads to growth for Nintendo while going the route of hardcore gaming or whatever you want to call it leads to decline. I'll save myself the time to write a breakdown because people should be able to think for themselves. It should go without saying that my reasoning doesn't need a scapegoat like the color of a console in order to be sound and consistent.

As my final point, I'd like to remind people that I saw the failure of the Wii U coming, based on the above reasoning. You, on the other hand, were caught off guard because you thought success is all about gimmicks.


No I guessed the Wii U would fail because the whole "lets make another console that's a generation behind the other two and try to sell it based on the controller" was a formula that was eventually going to bite Nintendo in the ass. So I wasn't shocked. 

I think you are 1000000% wrong on Apple being irrelevant. You want them to be irrelevant, but they're not, they took casual gaming honestly further than Nintendo ever could. Nintendo does not have the vision or marketing or balls to attempt making their phone, even though really they could have had they gone for it in 2007/8. 

They're just too conservative of a company, someone else like Apple was always going to come by and steal their candy away from them. 

Can you carry a PC in your pocket? Do you still have to use a keyboard/mouse? Are PC games backed by the largest marketing machine known to man? Families share the PC too, a phone you can play whenever you want, where ever you want, for however long you want to your heart's content.  

How the hell is soccer mom supposed to know where to even go to play "accessible" PC games? There's no centralized marketing structure for casuals to understand where to go, Apple gives them an easy to understand centralized iOS shop for all their apps, movies, music, games. It's easy for casuals to use and understand. The PC games are not really even that casual. Super Meat Boy is a casual game? Any type of remotely fast paced game using even a mouse is harder to play than a touchscreen game. People understand touch, it's the first thing babies do instinctively, we're hard wired for it. 

But you know what? I don't even care if Nintendo made a full console just exclusively for casuals. I actually would like to see them try as a *side* project. Go ahead, do it Nintendo. You will get your ass kicked by Apple today. I actually thought that's what Quality of Life was going to be, but I guess not. They are running scared, they know they don't dare confront Apple directly because they know they will get schooled. 

They didn't give the "middle finger" to casuals, they very clearly thought a touchscreen controller would appeal to casuals (it's not like buttons scared away casuals from the DS, which is more successful than the Wii ever was) and almost half their first year line up was casual-fare. Casuals just moved on. 



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Sorry Nintendo fans but just by looking at Bayonetta 2 sales which had everything in its favor to sell well, it didn't. Exclusive game, marketing from Nintendo, rage from the fans competitor, 90+ metascore, bundle with the 1st game. It has so far 340k and it's not in the top 75. It's obvious there weren't any chance for almost any third parties to sell well even with all the excuses that have been brought until now. I'll get it, it's a niche title which probably will be used as an excuse. Sorry but selling third parties games on Wii U is just a miracle.



Angelv577 said:
Sorry Nintendo fans but just by looking at Bayonetta 2 sales which had everything in its favor to sell well, it didn't. Exclusive game, marketing from Nintendo, rage from the fans competitor, 90+ metascore, bundle with the 1st game. It has so far 340k and it's not in the top 75. It's obvious there weren't any chance for almost any third parties to sell well even with all the excuses that have been brought until now. I'll get it, it's a niche title which probably will be used as an excuse. Sorry but selling third parties games on Wii U is just a miracle.


Well we dont know the digital numbers yet. Hopefully the people waiting to buy a WiiU for Smash are interested in this one as well:)



RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

No I guessed the Wii U would fail because the whole "lets make another console that's a generation behind the other two and try to sell it based on the controller" was a formula that was eventually going to bite Nintendo in the ass. So I wasn't shocked. 

I think you are 1000000% wrong on Apple being irrelevant. You want them to be irrelevant, but they're not, they took casual gaming honestly further than Nintendo ever could. Nintendo does not have the vision or marketing or balls to attempt making their phone, even though really they could have had they gone for it in 2007/8. 

They're just too conservative of a company, someone else like Apple was always going to come by and steal their candy away from them. 

Can you carry a PC in your pocket? Do you still have to use a keyboard/mouse? Are PC games backed by the largest marketing machine known to man? Families share the PC too, a phone you can play whenever you want, where ever you want, for however long you want to your heart's content.  

How the hell is soccer mom supposed to know where to even go to play "accessible" PC games? There's no centralized marketing structure for casuals to understand where to go, Apple gives them an easy to understand centralized iOS shop for all their apps, movies, music, games. It's easy for casuals to use and understand. The PC games are not really even that casual. Super Meat Boy is a casual game? Yeah right. 

But you know what? I don't even care if Nintendo made a full console just exclusively for casuals. I actually would like to see them try as a *side* project. Go ahead, do it Nintendo. You will get your ass kicked by Apple today. I actually thought that's what Quality of Life was going to be, but I guess not. They are running scared, they know they don't dare confront Apple directly because they know they will get schooled. 

They didn't give the "middle finger" to casuals, they very clearly thought a touchscreen controller would appeal to casuals (it's not like buttons scared away casuals from the DS, which is more successful than the Wii ever was) and almost half their first year line up was casual-fare. Casuals just moved on. 

Sorry, but you thought the Wii U would succeed.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=152950

"Who cares if the Wii U only sells around the N64 level (I doubt it would ever go as low as the GCN) and is supported primarily by core Nintendo fans?"

This quote clearly implies that you originally thought the Wii U would sell far above N64 levels.

It looks like you didn't understand why Apple is irrelevant to this discussion. Neither did you really grasp the rest of what I wrote, because you still insist that the Gamepad is a continuation of the Wii Remote. I could show pictures of a GC with GBA, a Wii Remote and a Gamepad to a five year old and they would be able to tell that the GC with GBA and the Gamepad are much closer to each other than the Wii Remote is to either one of the others. Why can't you connect the dots? I don't think it's so much that you can't, it's more that you don't want to.

I had hope that the Wii U wouldn't tank like it did and could at least settle in like the N64 did. I also admit I underestimated how quickly the Nintendo "fans" would bail on Nintendo. But find me a quote where I said Wii U would be a huge success. I never predicted that. 

The "it has buttons so too complex" doesn't even make sense, how is it that the DS is more successful than the Wii then? It has plenty of pesky buttons. Wii U is basically if a Wii and DS had sex, not even so much a GameCube (I don't recall a touch screen on the GBA either). 

I've actually had several of my casual Wii-owning friends over to play the Wii U, and you know what? They don't (gasp!) hate it. In fact they actually like it. Quite a bit. My living was filled with a lot of roaring laughter from my friends playing Mario Chase and other games in Nintendo Land. 

The problem is it's just not that exciting, not enough to *need* one in your life. People aren't impressed anymore by the notion of "hey I can't play video games ... oh wait, yes I can!", they know they can play video games and they know full well there are about 300 of them they can get for free on their phone when ever they want. So the appeal of "hey look! it's a game so simple even my mom can play it!" is nothing new or fresh anymore. Yeah Nintendo, we get it, anyone can play, so what else have you got or were you just planning to ride the novelty of that feeling forever? Grandpa can play on Wii, he can dance on Kinect, he can solve puzzles on iPad ... so what?

Beyond that Apple just does a multitude of things better than Nintendo. That and I think Apple inadvertantly really kicked Nintendo in the balls by introducing the free/$1 concept to casual gaming. Once you let people have things for free, it's very difficult to convince them to go back to paying money for it. This has definitely taken hold of casuals to whom gaming is not really a central part of the entertainment diet (it's a "nice to have", not a "must have). 

My friends will not pay for music. Not even on iTunes, doesn't matter how good the album is, or even how much they like the artist. Because they've become accustomed to getting it for free. So the idea of paying even $9 for an album is absurd to a lot people today. 



Woah, this thread is popular! I don't think anyone even noticed this in the UK charts thread...



    

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A game that didn't live up to the hype when it was originally released on other systems and was delayed for several months for Wii U didn't sell well? Even though they didn't do anything incredibly innovative with the gamepad? Even though they're charging full price when the other versions have dropped?

Seriously, Ubisoft tried SO hard to support the Wii U how could this have went so badly?????

lol seriously I don't understand why 3rd parties complain when they always shoot themselves in the foot on Nintendo platforms. It was almost as if they didn't want this version of the game to sell...



Less than 10,000 first week confirmed. :P



kevinrulzall91 said:
A game that didn't live up to the hype when it was originally released on other systems and was delayed for several months for Wii U didn't sell well? Even though they didn't do anything incredibly innovative with the gamepad? Even though they're charging full price when the other versions have dropped?

Seriously, Ubisoft tried SO hard to support the Wii U how could this have went so badly?????

lol seriously I don't understand why 3rd parties complain when they always shoot themselves in the foot on Nintendo platforms. It was almost as if they didn't want this version of the game to sell...

Third parties aren't losing any sleep over Nintendo. I'm sure Ubi Soft would've liked another successful platform, but Nintendo made mistakes with it and it doesn't have a market. No loss to Ubi Soft, they can just reach their audience through Sony and MS instead. 

If I'm software maker why do I give a sh*t whether they snotty nosed kid buying my game console A/B/X. That's their choice, my concern is making sure they buy my game in the first place. 



"that holds water until you consider that another recently released mature game, Bayonetta 2, placed first on the console in its launch"

YEah, Bayonetta 2 sold really great in the UK! /sarcasm



The One and Only

VizionEck.com

This article is lying. Just look:

"Nobody expected Ubisoft’s Watch Dogs to do well, but 14th is even lower than anyone would have thought"