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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Watch Dogs shifts almost no copies on its Wii U launch in UK

Soundwave on 25 November 2014
padib said:
Soundwave said:


Wii U hasn't proven it can sell anything outside of Mario/Zelda worth a damn, so until it does, I don't give it the benefit of the doubt. 

DKC and Bayonetta and Pikmin are all great games too, so to me it indicates something is very wrong with that audience base. 

Nintendo basically has lost all audience diversity on their console base by losing those people to Playstation/XBox. The only people left en masse are the Mario fanatics who like a little Zelda on the side. 

No you're wrong. I gave you ZombiU as a clear cut example, you just refuse the facts and prefer doubt because it fits with your preference.

DKC is just more of the same. I know I bought DKC but I didn't buy the sequel. Is something wrong with me?

I bought and played Pikmin for the cube, do I need to play another Pikmin? No. Is there something wrong with me?

I don't want to play Bayonetta, a violent game about cliche demons versus demons versus angels. Is there something wrong with me?

The obvious answer to the above three questions is no. So, people didn't buy them because people weren't interested in them. There is nothing wrong with the fanbase. In the meantime, a ton of people bought Mario Kart 8, I know I did. I skipped Mario Kart Wii, but I had to get this one. Why? Because it looked (and turned out) god-damned awesome.

That last sentence could not be more ignorant. If there are good games on the U, I will personally buy them. Smash is a great game, I don't care what characters are in it. Zelda is an awesome franchise and I will buy a console with a Zelda game on it, I don't care who makes it. Just as I would and have done for Final Fantasy. So if I buy a PS4 for Final Fantasy, am I just some Final Fantasy fanatic with absolutely nothing but a ravenous non-taste in games?

Seriously your opinion is broken.

You can be mad at me, but I'm just stating the truth. 

If Zombi U was any kind of success, Ubi Soft would be making Zombi U-2. No third party in this business turns down a chance to whore out any reasonably successful IP like crazy. 

Wii U is a sales dud and its a software sales dud too, even Nintendo is having huge headaches selling differing types of software on it, which is fairly predictable.

When you whittle your userbase down from 65 million (NES) to 49 million (SNES) to eventually 22 million with the GameCube and now we're down all the way to probably 18-20 million LTD for Wii U ... this type of contraction is natural. You have lost big chunks of your fanbase that would buy differing types of games in the past (ie: Street Fighter and Contra and Megaman and Final Fantasy other third party IPs once upon a time were dominant on Nintendo platforms, new IP like Star Fox or GoldenEye could be multi-million sellers, those days are long over now).

Wii generation was about a 4-year craze that has now fizzled into nothing, so now they're just back to the natural decline they were already on with the GameCube.



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the_dengle on 25 November 2014
Soundwave said:

Basically there's three categories of Wii U software: 

1.) Decent to Good Sales: 2D Mario, 3D Mario, Smash Brothers (Mario Fighting), Mario Kart are the main things that will sell on the Wii U, with some room left over for Zelda. Future home of: Mario Party 10, Mario Maker, Legend of Zelda U. 

2.) Poor/Low Sales: Donkey Kong Country, Pikmin 3, Wii Fit, Sonic Colors, Rayman didn't sell great. Wii Party U got saved by being bundled in Japan for a while. Future home to: Yarn Yoshi, Captain Toad, Splatoon, Xenoblade. 

3. ) Bomba Sales: Bayonetta, Call of Duty, Batman, Fatal Frame, Wonderful 101, Assassin's Creed, Need For Speed, Wii Sports Club, etc. are full-on bombs. Future home to: Devil's Third, Project: Cars (if that actually even comes out). 

I suppose if you want to pretend that Bayonetta and Mario should have the same sales expectations, this would be the case.

If the current VGC sales ratio of Bayo 2 : 3D World substituted Mario Galaxy's sales for the latter, Bayo 2 would have 1.6 million.

Soundwave said:

new IP like Star Fox or GoldenEye

I must say I found this amusing, since it was actually an adaptation of a film that was part of a 35-year-old franchise, which was itself an adaptation of a 45-year-old series of novels.



Soundwave on 25 November 2014
padib said:
Soundwave said:

You can be mad at me, but I'm just stating the truth. 

If Zombi U was any kind of success, Ubi Soft would be making Zombi U-2. No third party in this business turns down a chance to whore out any reasonably successful IP like crazy. 

Wii U is a sales dud and its a software sales dud too, even Nintendo is having huge headaches selling differing types of software on it, which is fairly predictable.

When you whittle your userbase down from 60 million (NES) to 49 million (SNES) to eventually 22 million with the GameCube and now we're down all the way to probably 18-20 million LTD for Wii U ... this type of contraction is natural. You have lost big chunks of your fanbase that would buy differing types of games in the past (ie: Street Fighter and Contra and Megaman and other third party IPs once upon a time were dominant on Nintendo platforms, new IP like Star Fox or GoldenEye could be multi-million sellers, those days are long over now). Wii generation was about a 4-year craze that has now fizzled into nothing. 

You are stating bias. The U can sell games, but it has to be games that compel WiiU owners of prospective owners. That is the truth.

Your ZombiU argument is bad because ZombiU sold well. If the profits were inadequate, that is a budgetting issue, not an issue with whoring or anything like that.

WiiU is not a sales dud, the great games are selling on it. Were Nintendo to actually make more good games, those would sell. People understood a long time ago that Wii Sports and other cash grabs were shit and stopped buying them, it has nothing to do with the U.

The home consoles you mention are a bad argument. You know full well how successful a Nintendo console can be without the Wii hype. Look at the portables line. They sell great because they offer great games.

That's the model to look at to see how the U could actually be a success. In the meantime you are looking at all the ways it and other Nintendo home consoles were failures and that is what is blinding you. Despite you being an advocate for the unified API and library for gen 9, the obvious saving grace for Nintendo (a decent software library), you will insist to doom the U.

What can I tell you? You are not stating truth you are stating bias.


That's your opinion, I think the mediocre numbers the Wii U has put up speak for themselves (both in software and hardware). 

If Sony's console userbase got whittled down to only 18-20 million users as Nintendo is tracking to, they would have the same issues too, so it's not just a "Nintendo thing". 

This is what happens when you go from systems that used to sell 33-65 million and collapse down to 20 million or even less (quite possibly) with the Wii U. 

You are left with an audience base that doesn't buy much of anything other than a very narrow grouping of software. Same thing happened with Sega on the Dreamcast, they could not get games like Jet Set Radio and Shenmue and others to sell, even though Sonic did pretty good. 

The mass market does not want a Wii U. 

I get that the online community for the Wii U is vocal, but just because they make a big fuss doesn't mean they can back up their talk with any actual action. NeoGaf is the biggest online gaming community, and even that is like 130,000 users (probably a lot of multiple accounts and about 1/3 of those people post almost exclusively on the non-gaming side of the board). 

That is nothing in the grand scheme of things. 



fluky-nintendy on 25 November 2014

I think Disney should acquire Nintendo after all. The perfect match for perfect games and combos.



...Let the Sony Domination continue with the PS4...
Soundwave on 25 November 2014
padib said:
Soundwave said:

That's your opinion, I think the mediocre numbers the Wii U has put up speak for themselves (both in software and hardware). 

If Sony's console userbase got whittled down to only 18-20 million users as Nintendo is tracking to, they would have the same issues too, so it's not just a "Nintendo thing". 

This is what happens when you go from systems that used to sell 33-65 million and collapse down to 20 million or even less (quite possibly) with the Wii U. 

You are left with an audience base that doesn't buy much of anything other than a very narrow grouping of software. Same thing happened with Sega on the Dreamcast, they could not get games like Jet Set Radio and Shenmue and others to sell, even though Sonic did pretty good. 

The mass market does not want a Wii U. 

I get that the online community for the Wii U is vocal, but just because they make a big fuss doesn't mean they can back up their talk with any actual action. NeoGaf is the biggest online gaming community, and even that is like 130,000 users (probably a lot of multiple accounts and about 1/3 of those people post almost exclusively on the non-gaming side of the board). 

That is nothing in the grand scheme of things. 

And this is your opinion. So what? The question is who is more right. I believe I am because I understand Nintendo better than you do.

The numbers today don't mean squat on what Nintendo can sell on the long run. Look at the PS3, it started horribly relative to the PS2 but it turned out all right. To say that Nintendo is absolutely incapable of creating a compelling library because U owners just buy Mario is the most stupid opinion I've read on vgchartz in a very long time.

So sorry if you think that's just my opinion, but I think my reasons to hold my opinion are more compelling.

Your online community argument is a strawman which has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. There are reasons to believe that the market is not purely consisting of Mario lovers and PSXB multi-plat lovers. There are many more gamers out there who for example buy the 3DS. Where are all those gamers in your market model? They don't exist because your model is broken.


My opinion is based on cold, hard data. 

Nintendo's performance is mediocre. 

The Playstation 3 was selling far better than the Wii U even at $500 (again look at the data) and was moving better numbers in third party software all through its lifecycle. Lets look at even the most recent NPD sales, the Wii U sold 69k for October, the PS3's equivalent month (October 2008) it sold 190k ... that's almost triple the Wii U number. That's not "close". 

I don't base my opinion on my personal gaming tastes/wishes. I wish Bayonetta 2 would sell 3 million copies. I wish DKC: TF was a big hit. 

But I'm not going to sit here with a straight face and say "yeah these are selling great, everything is fine". Everything is sure as f*ck not fine, the Wii U is pretty much a full-on disaster for Nintendo that internally they probably wish they could go back to the drawing board with but it's too late now. 



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Soundwave on 25 November 2014
padib said:
Soundwave said:

My opinion is based on cold, hard data. 

Nintendo's performance is mediocre. 

The Playstation 3 was selling far better than the Wii U even at $500 (again look at the data) and was moving better numbers in third party software all through its lifecycle. 

I don't base my opinion on my personal gaming tastes/wishes. I wish Bayonetta 2 would sell 3 million copies. I wish DKC: TF was a big hit. 

But I'm not going to sit here with a straight face and say "yeah these are selling great, everything is fine". Everything is sure as f*ck not fine, the Wii U is pretty much a full-on disaster for Nintendo that internally they probably wish they could go back to the drawing board with but it's too late now. 

Your opinion is based on a broken model.

In that model, Mario lovers and PS-XB multiplat lovers are the only existing buyers out there. Nevermind NDS owners. They bought the DS for reasons we just don't know.

I'm done here, you've made much better posts before take a break.

For the record I don't wish DKC:TF was a hit. I don't wish Bayo 2 were a big hit. I only care that Nintendo release consoles with large amounts of great games. They pulled it off for the DS, they did not pull it off this gen but a little bit for the 3DS. Until they do that for the U the U is a dud.

So this has nothing to do with some wishful thinking. As I said, I understand Nintendo better than you do and many people on here do. There is a blindspot on these forums that cause people to not understand how or why Nintendo sells and doesn't sell, and that is the DS market. People buy Nintendo platforms when there are good and lush software libraries on them. PERIOD.

The Wii U has Mario Kart, Bayonetta, Hyrule Warrios, Mario 3D World, Pikmin 3, Zombi U, NSMBU, DKC, Rayman, Monster Hunter ... sorry but the "wait till it has more games" excuse went out the window a long time ago. 

It has a far better library now than the 3DS did at the end of 2011 when it started to take off sales wise (for a while anyway). You're just making excuses for poor performance on Nintendo's part. Some of them are pretty tired too, even most Wii U fans have given up using the "it has no games" excuse. 

It has a better library right now than either the PS4 or XB1 and has had a better slate of releases this year than the 3DS as well. 

Aside from one OK month with Mario Kart, it's sold like hot garbage all year long. It apparently just got outsold by the 9 year old XBox 360 in October despite having notable game releases for the last two months ... this is just not good. 



Soundwave on 25 November 2014
padib said:
Soundwave said:

The Wii U has Mario Kart, Bayonetta, Hyrule Warrios, Mario 3D World, Pikmin 3, Zombi U, Rayman, Monster Hunter ... sorry but the "wait till it has more games" excuse went out the window a long time ago. 

It has a far better library now than the 3DS did at the end of 2011 when it started to take off sales wise (for a while anyway). You're just making excuses for poor performance on Nintendo's part. Some of them are pretty tired too, even most Wii U fans have given up using the "it has no games" excuse. 

It has a better library right now than either the PS4 or XB1 and has had a better slate of releases this year than the 3DS as well. 

3 good games in there: Mario Kart, Mario 3D World and Zombi U.

And even then! Mario 3D World, as great as it is, could be to the unsuspecting buyer just more of the same (though it really isn't), the game looks like 3D Land, and also takes cues from NSMB. Mario Kart may have been skipped by MK Wii buyers. I got MK8 because I personally skipped MKWii. The others are not in the great and lush library category, and even if they were are not nearly numerous enough. No the "wait till it has more games" excuse has gone nowhere, and is far from being an excuse. It's sound logic.

The 3DS not only has great and more Nintendo games, it also is backed by major 3rd party games. I'm not making any excuses I'm just using my brain.

It may have a better library than the PS4 or XB1 owners, but it's not enough for the NDS type buyers. Also, the games are more expensive than on the 3DS but are not necessarily better. That's another major issue, price.

But we have yet to pass step 1 in this convo to even get to that. You're still stuck on some console war logic, I put that behind me years ago.


Bayonetta 2 is probably the best game released this year on any system. Yes above anything on the PS4/X1 too. 

Hyrule Warriors is pretty good, Pikmin 3 is arguably the best Pikmin game, DKC is better than any platformer on the 3DS, Mario Kart 8 is way better than Mario Kart 7, Mario 3D World takes a giant dump all over Mario 3D Land, NSMBU is far better than NSMB2, Smash on Wii U is considerably better than the 3DS game, etc. etc. 

The 3DS doesn't even get that many cool third party games. Sure in Japan maybe but 60% of them don't even get localized here, so who gives a fart if you can't even play the damn game? No Western developer seriously supports the 3DS, the Wii U until this year actually had far better Western dev support. 

Some Nintendo fans need to stop being so senstive. Most Nintendo fans get it, but some are overly sensitive. If a basketball team loses 120-88, a fan shouldn't get their panties in a wad if someone says they got their ass kicked. They did get their ass kicked (it doesn't mean they're bad people, they just got their ass kicked in that particular game). Even if I'm a die-hard fan of said team, I can admit "yeah they got their ass kicked last night". I'm sorry but this is a competetive, cut throat market, not a kindegarten gym class where everyone gets a partipation ribbon and a cupcake afterwards, even the fat kid. 

Moderated for this and other posts - Starcraft



KLXVER on 25 November 2014
padib said:
Soundwave said:

The Wii U has Mario Kart, Bayonetta, Hyrule Warrios, Mario 3D World, Pikmin 3, Zombi U, Rayman, Monster Hunter ... sorry but the "wait till it has more games" excuse went out the window a long time ago. 

It has a far better library now than the 3DS did at the end of 2011 when it started to take off sales wise (for a while anyway). You're just making excuses for poor performance on Nintendo's part. Some of them are pretty tired too, even most Wii U fans have given up using the "it has no games" excuse. 

It has a better library right now than either the PS4 or XB1 and has had a better slate of releases this year than the 3DS as well. 

3 good games in there: Mario Kart, Mario 3D World and Zombi U.

And even then! Mario 3D World, as great as it is, could be to the unsuspecting buyer just more of the same (though it really isn't), the game looks like 3D Land, and also takes cues from NSMB. Mario Kart may have been skipped by MK Wii buyers. I got MK8 because I personally skipped MKWii. The others are not in the great and lush library category, and even if they were are not nearly numerous enough. No the "wait till it has more games" excuse has gone nowhere, and is far from being an excuse. It's sound logic.

The 3DS not only has great and more Nintendo games, it also is backed by major 3rd party games. I'm not making any excuses I'm just using my brain. Also Pokemon and many other strong-selling non-U franchises on the 3DS (tomodachi and others).

The U may have a better library than the PS4 or XB1 owners, but it's not enough for the NDS type buyers. Also, the games are more expensive than on the 3DS but are not necessarily better. That's another major issue, price.

But we have yet to pass step 1 in this convo to even get to that. You're still stuck on some console war logic, I put that behind me years ago.


The 3DS has major 3rd party support? Maybe more than the WiiU, but thats about it...



KLXVER on 25 November 2014
padib said:
KLXVER said:

The 3DS has major 3rd party support? Maybe more than the WiiU, but thats about it...

It has the same kind of 3rd party support the DS got. Again, you are looking at it from a PS-XB versus Nintendo point of view. You don't realize that the portables show that there are other games out there that don't fit in the PS-XB 3rd party games or in the Nintendo 1st party games.

That's what I'm talking about but nobody will understand it.

Too bad. But idgaf anymore.

Soundwave this reply goes to you too. Hopefully one day you will understand what I mean.

 

No, the DS had way better support than the 3DS. Name three big western developers that support the 3DS.



the_dengle on 25 November 2014
Soundwave said:

If a basketball team loses 120-88, a fan shouldn't get their panties in a wad if someone says they got their ass kicked.

Take it from a Sixers fan... you don't know the meaning of ass-kicking until you've lost 123-78....

padib said:

3 good games in there: Mario Kart, Mario 3D World and Zombi U.

You previously said you weren't interested in other games because you had gotten your fill of those franchises earlier. To now dismiss them as not good purely on the basis of your lack of interest in them is a wild change of tone.

KLXVER said:

No, the DS had way better support than the 3DS. Name three big western developers that support the 3DS.

Er. I can't name three big Western developers that supported the DS. It's pretty much just Rockstar as far as I can tell, and even then Chinatown Wars was probably primarily made by Rockstar Leeds, not Rockstar North.

So unless n-Space and 5th Cell are considered "big" Western developers... actually, they have both made games for 3DS, so... if they are big Western developers, that's two down, one to go. How about Next Level?