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Forums - Nintendo - Can anyone say to me why nintendo shos us a grpahic and than they use another in ZELDA U??

curl-6 on 04 November 2014
Nuvendil said:
 lack of voice acting these days is no small matter. Call it a "tradition" if you want, but times have changed and now lack of voice acting is viewed as either lazy or the sign of a low budget. And before the pitchforks come out, no, I don't think Link should be voiced. Rather, I think the game should follow the Elder Scrolls and Metroid Prime model of voicing everyone except Link. If TES has proved one thing, it's that silent protagonists aren't a problem. But silent games are.

I agree.

Personally, I'd rather it stayed unvoiced, but I recognize that from a market point of view, it is a drawback.



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Nuvendil on 04 November 2014

@curl-6 Precisely. And if it is done well, it should enhance and not hinder. But that does mean Nintendo has to spend money and make it a major focus. When you decide to half bake it, you get Other M.

As for doing it in a fictional language...that could be interesting.  But would require a lot of work and really tallented voice acting for it to be done well.  As for partial voice acting, that would still be an improvement; it would basically be like Xenoblade Chronicles was.



Deeds on 04 November 2014
Nuvendil said:
Deeds said:
Nuvendil said:
Also, on the note of other factors, if you want to talk about something in the game that is hamstringing sales, I would lean more towards lack of voice acting. Art direction is what it is, people can move past that I think. But lack of voice acting these days is no small matter. Call it a "tradition" if you want, but times have changed and now lack of voice acting is viewed as either lazy or the sign of a low budget. And before the pitchforks come out, no, I don't think Link should be voiced. Rather, I think the game should follow the Elder Scrolls and Metroid Prime model of voicing everyone except Link. If TES has proved one thing, it's that silent protagonists aren't a problem. But silent games are.

LOL. We have come full circle. I remember this exact same argument being used during the Gamecube era, then Nintendo added voice acting to Mario Sunshine, then they (smartly) removed it in Mario Galaxy and Mario Galaxy obliterated Sunshine in sales.


A platformer and a dialogue heavy, story centered adventure series are entirely different; you can't just compare two games of different genres. *snip*

This is hilarious. You are using the same argument I used to defend against Mario going dialogue heavy when people said Mario needed a voice to go up against Jak and Daxter. I said, "A platformer and a dialogue heavy, story centered adventure/platformer series like Jak and Daxter are entirely different."

Now Mario has gone silent again and is still selling while the "talkative" Jak and Daxter is dead. If you think VA is important why didn't Wall E (which is a movie) bomb when it's main protagonist was silent?

EDIT Also Mario Galaxy was more story driven than Sunshine, and yet Galaxy had no VA and still obliterated Sunsine in sales and popularity.



curl-6 on 04 November 2014
Nuvendil said:

@curl-6 Precisely. And if it is done well, it should enhance and not hinder. But that does mean Nintendo has to spend money and make it a major focus. When you decide to half bake it, you get Other M.

Yeah that's what I'd be worried about, Nintendo doesn't have a great track record with VA.



Nuvendil on 04 November 2014
Deeds said:
Nuvendil said:
Deeds said:
Nuvendil said:
Also, on the note of other factors, if you want to talk about something in the game that is hamstringing sales, I would lean more towards lack of voice acting. Art direction is what it is, people can move past that I think. But lack of voice acting these days is no small matter. Call it a "tradition" if you want, but times have changed and now lack of voice acting is viewed as either lazy or the sign of a low budget. And before the pitchforks come out, no, I don't think Link should be voiced. Rather, I think the game should follow the Elder Scrolls and Metroid Prime model of voicing everyone except Link. If TES has proved one thing, it's that silent protagonists aren't a problem. But silent games are.

LOL. We have come full circle. I remember this exact same argument being used during the Gamecube era, then Nintendo added voice acting to Mario Sunshine, then they (smartly) removed it in Mario Galaxy and Mario Galaxy obliterated Sunshine in sales.


A platformer and a dialogue heavy, story centered adventure series are entirely different; you can't just compare two games of different genres. *snip*

This is hilarious. You are using the same argument I used to defend against Mario going dialogue heavy when people said Mario needed a voice to go up against Jak and Daxter. I said, "A platformer and a dialogue heavy, story centered adventure/platformer series like Jak and Daxter are entirely different."

Now Mario has gone silent again and is still selling while the "talkative" Jak and Daxter is dead. If you think VA is important why didn't Wall E (which is a movie) bomb when it's main protagonist was silent?

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.  "Jak and Daxter had voice acting,  Mario abandoned it.  Jak and Daxter are no longer around but Mario is.  Therefore, voice acting harmed Jak and Daxter."  Just because the one happened after the other does not mean the two are connected in a cause-effect relationship. 

And you name one silent adventure game that has endured, I will name a number that have vanished.  You name one instance of a silent game growing in size, I will name a number that have shrunk or stagnated. 

Also, serious cheery picking on that Wall E example when it is one among hundreds of successful movies, and is not nearly on the level of, say, Frozen or Cars or Toy Story or Tangled or...you get the idea.  Plus audience expectations and assumptions with movies are different than with video games; this is common knowledge.

Edit:  actually, Tangled isn't much higher, but still higher



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Nuvendil on 04 November 2014
curl-6 said:
Nuvendil said:

@curl-6 Precisely. And if it is done well, it should enhance and not hinder. But that does mean Nintendo has to spend money and make it a major focus. When you decide to half bake it, you get Other M.

Yeah that's what I'd be worried about, Nintendo doesn't have a great track record with VA.


Well, Prime 3 did pretty good.  I hope, if Nintendo tries a voiced Samus again (I think there's potential honestly; she wasn't a silent protagonist before), that they leave it in Retro's hands cause whoever did Other M...ugh, just no.  Oh, and get a good voice actress if you are going to do that, seriously.  I could have picked a better one blindfolded.

As for Zelda, the writing in Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess was pretty good iirc.  They just need to spend the money on good voice actors.  



Deeds on 04 November 2014
Nuvendil said:
Deeds said:
Nuvendil said:
Deeds said:
Nuvendil said:
Also, on the note of other factors, if you want to talk about something in the game that is hamstringing sales, I would lean more towards lack of voice acting. Art direction is what it is, people can move past that I think. But lack of voice acting these days is no small matter. Call it a "tradition" if you want, but times have changed and now lack of voice acting is viewed as either lazy or the sign of a low budget. And before the pitchforks come out, no, I don't think Link should be voiced. Rather, I think the game should follow the Elder Scrolls and Metroid Prime model of voicing everyone except Link. If TES has proved one thing, it's that silent protagonists aren't a problem. But silent games are.

LOL. We have come full circle. I remember this exact same argument being used during the Gamecube era, then Nintendo added voice acting to Mario Sunshine, then they (smartly) removed it in Mario Galaxy and Mario Galaxy obliterated Sunshine in sales.


A platformer and a dialogue heavy, story centered adventure series are entirely different; you can't just compare two games of different genres. *snip*

This is hilarious. You are using the same argument I used to defend against Mario going dialogue heavy when people said Mario needed a voice to go up against Jak and Daxter. I said, "A platformer and a dialogue heavy, story centered adventure/platformer series like Jak and Daxter are entirely different."

Now Mario has gone silent again and is still selling while the "talkative" Jak and Daxter is dead. If you think VA is important why didn't Wall E (which is a movie) bomb when it's main protagonist was silent?

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.  "Jak and Daxter had voice acting,  Mario abandoned it.  Jak and Daxter are no longer around but Mario is.  Therefore, voice acting harmed Jak and Daxter."  Just because the one happened after the other does not mean the two are connected in a cause-effect relationship. 

And you name one silent adventure game that has endured, I will name a number that have vanished.  You name one instance of a silent game growing in size, I will name a number that have shrunk or stagnated. 

Also, serious cheery picking on that Wall E example when it is one among hundreds of successful movies, and is not nearly on the level of, say, Frozen or Cars or Toy Story or Tangled or...you get the idea.  Plus audience expectations and assumptions with movies are different than with video games; this is common knowledge.

LOL, why are you dancing around the question? Why did Wall E do so well even though the protagonist was silent? Why did a more story driven Mario Galaxy with no VA do better than a less story driven Mario Sunshine with VA? The answer is pretty easy.



Nuvendil on 04 November 2014
Deeds said:
Nuvendil said:
Deeds said:
Nuvendil said:
Deeds said:
Nuvendil said:
Also, on the note of other factors, if you want to talk about something in the game that is hamstringing sales, I would lean more towards lack of voice acting. Art direction is what it is, people can move past that I think. But lack of voice acting these days is no small matter. Call it a "tradition" if you want, but times have changed and now lack of voice acting is viewed as either lazy or the sign of a low budget. And before the pitchforks come out, no, I don't think Link should be voiced. Rather, I think the game should follow the Elder Scrolls and Metroid Prime model of voicing everyone except Link. If TES has proved one thing, it's that silent protagonists aren't a problem. But silent games are.

LOL. We have come full circle. I remember this exact same argument being used during the Gamecube era, then Nintendo added voice acting to Mario Sunshine, then they (smartly) removed it in Mario Galaxy and Mario Galaxy obliterated Sunshine in sales.


A platformer and a dialogue heavy, story centered adventure series are entirely different; you can't just compare two games of different genres. *snip*

This is hilarious. You are using the same argument I used to defend against Mario going dialogue heavy when people said Mario needed a voice to go up against Jak and Daxter. I said, "A platformer and a dialogue heavy, story centered adventure/platformer series like Jak and Daxter are entirely different."

Now Mario has gone silent again and is still selling while the "talkative" Jak and Daxter is dead. If you think VA is important why didn't Wall E (which is a movie) bomb when it's main protagonist was silent?

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.  "Jak and Daxter had voice acting,  Mario abandoned it.  Jak and Daxter are no longer around but Mario is.  Therefore, voice acting harmed Jak and Daxter."  Just because the one happened after the other does not mean the two are connected in a cause-effect relationship. 

And you name one silent adventure game that has endured, I will name a number that have vanished.  You name one instance of a silent game growing in size, I will name a number that have shrunk or stagnated. 

Also, serious cheery picking on that Wall E example when it is one among hundreds of successful movies, and is not nearly on the level of, say, Frozen or Cars or Toy Story or Tangled or...you get the idea.  Plus audience expectations and assumptions with movies are different than with video games; this is common knowledge.

LOL, why are you dancing around the question? Why did Wall E do so well even though the protagonist was silent? Why did a more story driven Mario Galaxy with no VA do better than a less story driven Mario Sunshine with VA? The answer is pretty easy.

I'm "dancing around the question" because you're little stunt is based on an established and known logical fallacy that is old as the hills.  You are trying to make out the success or failure of these works to somehow be connected to voice acting when that has nothing to do with it.  You are also now blurring the lines between mediums, not just genres.  I'm avoiding the question for a simple reason...



Deeds on 04 November 2014
Nuvendil said:
 

I'm "dancing around the question" because you're little stunt is based on an established and known logical fallacy that is old as the hills.  You are trying to make out the success or failure of these works to somehow be connected to voice acting when that has nothing to do with it.  You are also now blurring the lines between mediums, not just genres.  I'm avoiding the question for a simple reason...

LOL. Now he/she's resorting to posting pics. But I think you may be getting the idea why Zelda doesn't need VA to sell better over time. :)



phaedruss on 05 November 2014

You guys realize that they've said since they showed that Fing tech demo that it was not what the game was going to look like right? I mean jesus christ.