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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What Can Nintendo Do To Appeal To The West?

DanneSandin said:
All this really is, is a pipe dream.

Disney wouldn't be too thrilled by having their games on ONE console, I'd imagine. Just consider for a moment that they have shut down their own development studios and have licensed Star Wars to EA; they obviously don't care about gaming all that much. But I wager they'd like to sell as many games to as many people as possible, hence why they've always been 3rd party.

And besides, it wouldn't be possible for Nintendo either; they simply don't have the man power to produce that many games. C'mon, they're struggling to release a few games a year on the Wii U.


They'd be free to make games on other consoles. Just that on the Nintendo platform, Nintendo would fund/finance those games (or co-finance them with Disney). 

It's not really different from the Star Wars deal that Nintendo had in the 1990s where they got exclusive Star Wars games, but there were still other Star Wars games on other systems. 

Nintendo could has staffed up lately, but they could set up a studio to just work on Marvel games (200-300 people). It's a worthwhile investment as I think the game's would all be profitable, so why not. It's not like you're banking on some highly risky IP that you're sure people will like ... people like Iron Man, people like the Guardians of the Galaxy, people like Star Wars (well the OT anyway) ... these are not even in question.

Besides it's not like Disney is exactly picky about what they license their character IP out too, lol. They stick their characters on any piece of crap they can think of for licensing purposes, a deal with Nintendo would just be another day of the week for Disney.  



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Soundwave said:
KingdomHeartsFan said:
Soundwave said:

Nintendo's next console won't be x86 based. I would bet $100 on it.

It will be an ARM mobile CPU (v8) and an AMD low-power (consumption) mobile part which will allow for Wii U quality graphics (perhaps with better lighting/shader effects and more RAM) on a handheld. The home version will be the same chip overclocked with more CPU/GPU cores and more RAM for 1080p play at home.

Even on the GameCube ... Nintendo had most of the same third party games as the XBox and PS2 ... it just didn't help. That audience is owned by Sony/MS, there's not a lot Nintendo can do to win them back. 

They need a way to expand their appeal in a different way. 

I thought this thread was about what they should do?  Not what will happen.

Even if it was x86 based ... so what? Why is the average American/British/German kid going to buy the Nintendo console over the Sony or MS console where all their friends play? The Gamecube tried this approach and failed. 



The problem with Gamecube was it was it looked dorky, had a shitty controller, and did not have many games.

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Ka-pi96 said:
Soundwave said:
DanneSandin said:
All this really is, is a pipe dream.

Disney wouldn't be too thrilled by having their games on ONE console, I'd imagine. Just consider for a moment that they have shut down their own development studios and have licensed Star Wars to EA; they obviously don't care about gaming all that much. But I wager they'd like to sell as many games to as many people as possible, hence why they've always been 3rd party.

And besides, it wouldn't be possible for Nintendo either; they simply don't have the man power to produce that many games. C'mon, they're struggling to release a few games a year on the Wii U.


They'd be free to make games on other consoles. Just that on the Nintendo platform, Nintendo would fund/finance those games (or co-finance them with Disney). 

It's not really different from the Star Wars deal that Nintendo had in the 1990s where they got exclusive Star Wars games, but there were still other Star Wars games on other systems. 

Nintendo could has staffed up lately, but they could set up a studio to just work on Marvel games (200-300 people). It's a worthwhile investment as I think the game's would all be profitable, so why not. It's not like you're banking on some highly risky IP that you're sure people will like ... people like Iron Man, people like the Guardians of the Galaxy, people like Star Wars (well the OT anyway) ... these are not even in question.

Besides it's not like Disney is exactly picky about what they license their character IP out too, lol. They stick their characters on any piece of crap they can think of for licensing purposes, a deal with Nintendo would just be another day of the week for Disney.  

I don't think you really get it. Disney don't make games themselves, they licence those rights out. Sure, Nintendo could buy those rights, but they would be incredibly expensive to get exclusive rights especially the kind of long term deal you are thinking about and if they aren't exclusive rights... well then, it wouldn't really help much. Also, you mentioned co funding. Why would Disney want to do that when there are plenty of others that are willing to just pay Disney for the rights to make a game and then fund it completely by themselves?

I don't think they're *that* expensive. LEGO licenses out the Marvel IP so do smaller third parties. 

It would be expensive if Nintendo was asking for full exclusivity over the license, but obviously they wouldn't. 

You're right about the co-financing ... Nintendo should just finance the games themselves. They have billions sitting in the bank they don't need Disney's financing to make games. They would probably have to add a big Western studio to be able to pump out enough games, I'm thinking a new studio in Seattle or LA with 200-300 people + perhaps beefing up Retro Studios even further so they could work on Marvel IP now and again too. 

Even if there is an oppurtunity cost, the fact is all these games (if high quality enough) would make Nintendo money even factoring in the cost of licensing the characters *AND* expand Nintendo's portfolio appeal. 

A Guardians of the Galaxy series of games can be as much of a "killer app" to even the player who loves GTA5 and Halo and doesn't care for Mario, and it can appeal just as well to the 12-year-old who loves Mario and Pokemon. The fact that there are no good video games being made around these properties is a huge missed oppurtunity by this industry really. 



KingdomHeartsFan said:

@ bold #1-you seem to think its easy to just open your own development studios and make AAA games.  Its not, even if they invest in western studios there is no guarantee that those games will even turn out good, its costly and a huge risk.  You wanna talk about a fool's gambit and a loser's wager, its exactly what your proposing.

@bold #2-No PS4's Playstation shop is not a big system seller either, it is as you said a nice feature for people that already own the console.  Having big AAA developers that actually sell your console is way more important.

If Nintendo wanted shooters/sports games they would not be better off stricking deals with developers, you wanna know why?  No FPS they make will be bigger than Cod, no soccer game they make will be bigger than Fifa.  Its not about getting games that appeal to Nintendo fans, its about getting a wide variety of games that appeals to a wider audience.  Why do you think they got Bayonetta 2?  That is the complete opposite kinda game that appeals to NIntendo fans.  Just appealing to Nintendo fans obviously isn't working, the Wii U is bombing hard.

The situation I'm proposing is not like the GC, but lets say it was, I'm sure Nintendo would be killing for GC sales right about now cause that's how bad the Wii U is selling, that's now bad their current system of ignoring third party developers is doing.  The only way they can still sell systems and ignore third parties is to come out with something so revolutionary that everyone has to try it (the Wii) which is rare and probably won't happen again.


#1. No, I said invest, as in find one of the many fledgling development studios and invest in it or some of the lesser know AA studios (that's how Retro and Next Level came about). Not open their own studios, though that's viable oppurtunity too as many would absoltuely KILL to work for Nintendo, and immediately start gunning for AAA projects. This is a far less major risk than bending over backwards for AAA who will still not support the system.

#2. I've seen plenty of people arguing for indies being big deals, it wasn't directed at you perse.

They don't need to appeal to only Nintendo fans, they need to appeal to fans they know they can court. Chasing dudebros with shooters like CoD or chasing sports players with FIFA, is pointless. Those playerbases already dismiss the Nintendo paradigm and have a home. Bayo2 is not trying to court a demographic that is dismissive of its own image, its trying to court core gamers who don't give a shit about platforms and follow games. That's a far healthier approach than trying to chase Godot on userbases that won't come.

They aren't ignoring third party developers because, quite literally they had deals in place when the console launched and were therein abandoned by said developers. Have you simply ignored the shit Ubisoft pulled with Rayman? Or EA's "partnership"? Why should Nintendo be, after all of the shit that's occured over the last two years, care at all about what AAA developers want at this point? There is no reason to believe that same thing won't happen again irregardless of what Nintendo does or does not do as such it is far safer and better, in the long run, for Nintendo to pursue what interests them internally best than to try and appease the self-destructive tendencies of a handful of publishers.

The bridges are burned, its in Nintendo's best interest to move on and find better avenues to pursue.

And, as I said, x86 isn't some magic solution unless Nintendo, for some utterly stupid reason, adopt the weak Jaguar chipset. Even if they were to go x86 at the expense of mobility (which is also stupid), the chip would be different, work would be required, and the titles getting ported still wouldn't sell well. No one's going to commit the man hours to put titles on the system that won't sell or put titles on the system that will be overshadowed by/compared to Nintendo's quality. There is no easy solution to this problem.



KingdomHeartsFan said:

@ bold #1-you seem to think its easy to just open your own development studios and make AAA games.  Its not, even if they invest in western studios there is no guarantee that those games will even turn out good, its costly and a huge risk.  You wanna talk about a fool's gambit and a loser's wager, its exactly what your proposing.

No, He's proposing what everybody else is doing. I mean not just Sony that has studios everywhere, but also Capcom, Konami, Sega. And Ubisoft that from France made part of his commercial success opening a studio in Canada. Etc. And it's not by accident everybody else is doing that, it's because you have to, it's a necessary investisment to gather talents, diversify genres, and expand. Nintendo is all about Japan, and even there they require a good level of japanese and handwritten resume. They have to move on.



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I think we're just too far gone with the third party thing. It's like the couple that tries to get back together after being divorced twice already ... it's just never going to work.

Nintendo needs to start preparing for life without third parties (well really they've dealt with it for 15 years now). I should say they need to prepare for a life without third parties in which they can still supply software that hits a broader demographic appeal.

To me there isn't a partner better than Marvel/Disney to fit with Nintendo there. Even people who say a Nintendo/Sega console would be cool ... IP like Outrun and Shenmue are not going to get the attention of the average modern gamer.

A Guardians of the Galaxy game with a Metacritic of about 90 on a Nintendo system would.



Ka-pi96 said:
Soundwave said:
Ka-pi96 said:

I don't think you really get it. Disney don't make games themselves, they licence those rights out. Sure, Nintendo could buy those rights, but they would be incredibly expensive to get exclusive rights especially the kind of long term deal you are thinking about and if they aren't exclusive rights... well then, it wouldn't really help much. Also, you mentioned co funding. Why would Disney want to do that when there are plenty of others that are willing to just pay Disney for the rights to make a game and then fund it completely by themselves?

I don't think they're *that* expensive. LEGO licenses out the Marvel IP so do smaller third parties. 

It would be expensive if Nintendo was asking for full exclusivity over the license, but obviously they wouldn't. 

You're right about the co-financing ... Nintendo should just finance the games themselves. They have billions sitting in the bank they don't need Disney's financing to make games. They would probably have to add a big Western studio to be able to pump out enough games, I'm thinking a new studio in Seattle or LA with 200-300 people + perhaps beefing up Retro Studios even further so they could work on Marvel IP now and again too. 

Even if there is an oppurtunity cost, the fact is all these games (if high quality enough) would make Nintendo money even factoring in the cost of licensing the characters *AND* expand Nintendo's portfolio appeal. 

A Guardians of the Galaxy series of games can be as much of a "killer app" to even the player who loves GTA5 and Halo and doesn't care for Mario, and it can appeal just as well to the 12-year-old who loves Mario and Pokemon. The fact that there are no good video games being made around these properties is a huge missed oppurtunity by this industry really. 

Sure, a non-exclusive deal shouldn't be that expensive. But then, what's the point? If the deal isn't exclusive and Nintendo get a successful game from it then wouldn't other publishers like EA, Activision, Ubisoft etc also makes those games and throw tonnes of money into the marketing of them?


The game's that Nintendo makes would be exclusive to them. Like Star Wars Rogue Squadron wasn't on the Playstation because Nintendo had a deal with LucasArts. 

Though I suspect Disney would be open to some kind of exclusivity over Guardians/Avengers games right now. It's not like they're making a lot of money off the video game rights to these games right now, if Nintendo came in perhaps they could grab non-LEGO/Disney Infinity/smartphone rights to those particular IP. 



Third party is the obvious choice but I as a Westerner, don't agree with the style of Western gaming. It's bull headed and broken. Just an opinion. Gaming taste has changed and if Nintendo wants to go against the grain, I am all for it. If it comes down to the point where they must shut off from everywhere else but Japan, at least they'll be safe but even that is such an extreme situation. Nintendo also has to follow their own intuition. This is how Nintendo has survived for many years. If there's 3 PS4s on the market, what good would that do? I am, for one, all for a 3rd party Nintendo. But there's such a risk there. What if that changes absolutely nothing? I mean really, people are going to buy what they want to buy. However, there are 2 types of Nintendo that I know. The Console Nintendo and the Handheld Nintendo, the latter of which will take much more than Western influence to get rid of.



Jumpin said:
Soundwave said:
KingdomHeartsFan said:
Soundwave said:

Nintendo's next console won't be x86 based. I would bet $100 on it.

It will be an ARM mobile CPU (v8) and an AMD low-power (consumption) mobile part which will allow for Wii U quality graphics (perhaps with better lighting/shader effects and more RAM) on a handheld. The home version will be the same chip overclocked with more CPU/GPU cores and more RAM for 1080p play at home.

Even on the GameCube ... Nintendo had most of the same third party games as the XBox and PS2 ... it just didn't help. That audience is owned by Sony/MS, there's not a lot Nintendo can do to win them back. 

They need a way to expand their appeal in a different way. 

I thought this thread was about what they should do?  Not what will happen.

Even if it was x86 based ... so what? Why is the average American/British/German kid going to buy the Nintendo console over the Sony or MS console where all their friends play? The Gamecube tried this approach and failed. 



The problem with Gamecube was it was it looked dorky, had a shitty controller, and did not have many games.

I'm sorry. When a controller survives 3 generations. It's not shitty for the majority.



Ka-pi96 said:
Soundwave said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Sure, a non-exclusive deal shouldn't be that expensive. But then, what's the point? If the deal isn't exclusive and Nintendo get a successful game from it then wouldn't other publishers like EA, Activision, Ubisoft etc also makes those games and throw tonnes of money into the marketing of them?


The game's that Nintendo makes would be exclusive to them. Like Star Wars Rogue Squadron wasn't on the Playstation because Nintendo had a deal with LucasArts. 

Though I suspect Disney would be open to some kind of exclusivity over Guardians/Avengers games right now. It's not like they're making a lot of money off the video game rights to these games right now, if Nintendo came in perhaps they could grab non-LEGO/Disney Infinity/smartphone rights to those particular IP. 

I didn't mean copy the games exactly. I meant just make their own games that are similar or from the same franchise, so games that directly compete with the ones Nintendo would have.


It's an issue, but making games of Nintendo quality is not so easy ... no one as made a Bond game quite like GoldenEye on the N64 for example. Nintendo just fosters an environment condusive to high quality end products. 

Beyond that though perhaps Disney would not shoot down the idea of exclusivity over certain Marvel IP. No one is making an Avengers or Guardians game right now and Disney opted to basically shut down most of their game divisions. Might as well make money off those IP ... the deal could stipulate that Disney is still free to license out those characters in things like LEGO and Disney Infinity titles, but the actual movie adaptations on home console could be exclusive to Nintendo for X amount of years. 

Nintendo may have to pay a pretty penny, but in the end I think it would be worth it.