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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Order: 1886 new not so linear video (Player explores instead of completing objective)

sundin13 said:
enditall727 said:

Could you give me an example of the "far too many cutscenes" thing you're talking about?


I think this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaYmu7XVGvM) video is pretty much prototypical, but all gameplay I've seen has been pretty similar.

Skip to about 1:30 and watch the next segment. It starts with a cutscene, then you get about 10sec of gameplay (signified by the HUD's appearance), then about 25sec of cutscene (ending in a pseudo-QTE), then you get about 4 second of gameplay before going into another cutscene lasting about 50seconds, then gameplay for 5seconds.

Thats the end of that segment. As you can see, this suffers from what a lot of games do, which is showing you what is going on instead of letting you experience it yourself. Why do games have to show you a cutscene every time you progress 10 seconds (this often happens with things like climbing/knocking down ladders and simple things like that)? Its much more jarring when you are actually playing, and it makes you feel like you are only playing to trigger the next cutscene. 

This particular video isn't quite as bad, but it still ties gameplay pieces together with cutscenes instead of giving the player any agency. Like, what is actually happening in the game? He hides behind one singular piece of cover and faces wave survival for a few minutes (he even tries to run out at one point and almost gets himself killed, like the game is yelling "you weren't done killing this wave of generic baddies yet! get back to that cover and do the same exact thing for another 30seconds"). When that is done, run over to guy and trigger cutscene. When that is done walk over to water heater (??) and trigger cutscene (with QTE! Look, you actually did something!). When that is done, you get a short, generic shooting section capped with a cutscene....

Cutscenes in games are kind of like exposition dumps in movies/books. Its like the writer though "we can't think of a way to integrate this info into the regular events so we will just take you out of everything for a second to forcefeed you this stuff". They just feel like a cop out, especially when they are used this frequently. Why can't the character have control while some of these cutscenes are happening? Give the player something to do while you guys are chatting. Give the player the tools to perform the actions that the character does in the cutscene (the one where he blows up the water heater)...It frustrates me to no end to see games forgetting all of the unique ways they can interact with their audience and instead just following the lead of another medium.

2008ProchargedGT said:

 I have been craving an awesone LINEAR story driven game this entire gen. This atmosphere and lore are right up my alley so I cant freaking wait.


Then play Wolfenstein


This is the only gameplay we've seen with so many cutscenes, the other has not so many cutscene, just like Uncharted/Quantum Break.

The developpers specified the game let you experience by yourself in other parts. So cant really judge on 5min.



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

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Aerys said:


This is the only gameplay we've seen with so many cutscenes, the other has not so many cutscene, just like Uncharted/Quantum Break.

The developpers specified the game let you experience by yourself in other parts. So cant really judge on 5min.

Oh, but they're more than happy to...same the same things, about the same exact demo, everytime someone else posts footage on it lol.



sundin13 said:
enditall727 said:

Could you give me an example of the "far too many cutscenes" thing you're talking about?


I think this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaYmu7XVGvM) video is pretty much prototypical, but all gameplay I've seen has been pretty similar.

Skip to about 1:30 and watch the next segment. It starts with a cutscene, then you get about 10sec of gameplay (signified by the HUD's appearance), then about 25sec of cutscene (ending in a pseudo-QTE), then you get about 4 second of gameplay before going into another cutscene lasting about 50seconds, then gameplay for 5seconds.

Thats the end of that segment. As you can see, this suffers from what a lot of games do, which is showing you what is going on instead of letting you experience it yourself. Why do games have to show you a cutscene every time you progress 10 seconds (this often happens with things like climbing/knocking down ladders and simple things like that)? Its much more jarring when you are actually playing, and it makes you feel like you are only playing to trigger the next cutscene. 

This particular video isn't quite as bad, but it still ties gameplay pieces together with cutscenes instead of giving the player any agency. Like, what is actually happening in the game? He hides behind one singular piece of cover and faces wave survival for a few minutes (he even tries to run out at one point and almost gets himself killed, like the game is yelling "you weren't done killing this wave of generic baddies yet! get back to that cover and do the same exact thing for another 30seconds"). When that is done, run over to guy and trigger cutscene. When that is done walk over to water heater (??) and trigger cutscene (with QTE! Look, you actually did something!). When that is done, you get a short, generic shooting section capped with a cutscene....

Cutscenes in games are kind of like exposition dumps in movies/books. Its like the writer though "we can't think of a way to integrate this info into the regular events so we will just take you out of everything for a second to forcefeed you this stuff". They just feel like a cop out, especially when they are used this frequently. Why can't the character have control while some of these cutscenes are happening? Give the player something to do while you guys are chatting. Give the player the tools to perform the actions that the character does in the cutscene (the one where he blows up the water heater)...It frustrates me to no end to see games forgetting all of the unique ways they can interact with their audience and instead just following the lead of another medium.

2008ProchargedGT said:

 I have been craving an awesone LINEAR story driven game this entire gen. This atmosphere and lore are right up my alley so I cant freaking wait.


Then play Wolfenstein

Nah.. you're just being unreasonable and are looking for something negative to hold on to.

 

There was nothing wrong with that segment they were showing off. Instead of just showing off the scene completely, they actually put you in control. Instead of just showing Galahad shoot the hybrid, they actually put you in the scene where you can possibly die. Oh it's SooooOOOooo horrificly horrible..

 

If anything, that makes this game better. I dont recall any other game doing that(I could be wrong but I doubt it) and here you are trying to turn that into a negative..



mornelithe said:
Aerys said:


This is the only gameplay we've seen with so many cutscenes, the other has not so many cutscene, just like Uncharted/Quantum Break.

The developpers specified the game let you experience by yourself in other parts. So cant really judge on 5min.

Oh, but they're more than happy to...same the same things, about the same exact demo, everytime someone else posts footage on it lol.


They would like to show more but they dont want to spoil the story, so they did in the last trailer with many different small sequences.

But they also heard the negative opinions



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

Aerys said:
mornelithe said:

Oh, but they're more than happy to...same say the same things, about the same exact demo, everytime someone else posts footage on it lol.


They would like to show more but they dont want to spoil the story, so they did in the last trailer with many different small sequences.

But they also heard the negative opinions

Shit, that's supposed to say 'Say the same things', I was referring to the folks complaining.  I'm reserving judgement until I see more :)



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enditall727 said:

Nah.. you're just being unreasonable and are looking for something negative to hold on to.

 

There was nothing wrong with that segment they were showing off. Instead of just showing off the scene completely, they actually put you in control. Instead of just showing Galahad shoot the hybrid, they actually put you in the scene where you can possibly die. Oh it's SooooOOOooo horrificly horrible..

 

If anything, that makes this game better. I dont recall any other game doing that(I could be wrong but I doubt it) and here you are trying to turn that into a negative..

 

People prefer a whole cinematic it seems, it is less disturbing in a TPS. But if they would think a bit, they would understand it's the same thing than games like WD, HR, D4,.. Like i said to many who disliked, what is better ? A cinematic you watch, or an interactive cinematic ? Most games have gameplay + cinematic, The Order has gameplay + interactive cinematic, it seems too much disturbing or innovative because no one understand that, they prefer to think "interactive cinematic is the whole gameplay" while the last trailer show they are wrong



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

So, a it more "exploration" and the game become non-linear? k



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Emperorbach said:
great
now tweakup the gameplay to add more variety

How the hell can you complain about variety for a game we've only seen a couple sections of a couple levels for? Are you honestly expecting them to reveal every last inch of the game before it even comes out? I don't recall anyh game developer ever doing that.





0331 Happiness is a belt-fed weapon

I'm proudly getting this game and nobody could ever talk me out of it.
Not sure as to why anybody would complain about getting an actual game on a gaming console...(?)
This game looks, what I would consider really good and fun. Glad to get these exclusives and proudly support their efforts they have put into this game.



...That video was not "non-linear." There's nothing wrong with linearity in and of itself anyway.