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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Portable console gaming is dead

Well, your best point is that about the eStore; Nintendo are lagging way too far behind on all things online and were way too late to the party. They are still seen as a company selling mostly dealing in sealed devices, or very close, and that won't do it for the modern market; not when we're seeing both the traditional core market and the casual market thriving on online in all avenues.

Been said too many times already, but Nintendo has quite simply failed to properly read the market, especially in the West, and are paying the price for it in the sales charts and in the media.



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NiKKoM said:

I think core gaming as a whole is standing on a massive shift.. with the casual audience away to better places..its gonna be really hard to convince that core audience to buy your triple A game.. especially with every other company out there trying to convince you of buying their game.. there won't be enough money from the core audience..  portable already shifted away with its audience and there is nothing any of them can do anything about it.

Peope underestimated the sales casual audience were responsible for. Revamping the E-store won't help... Nintendo should have gotten more pro-active to go after the indies but thats too late now.. they are gone and never going back.


replace all of your "core" with "mainstream" and I agree.

5% or so of the hardcore gamers are actually hardcore gamers the rest is wannabe ones called mainstreamers.



Shadow1980 said:
And handheld gaming is far from doomed. Everyone seems to consider the DS the bar for handhelds to reach, and now that the 3DS is obviously going to fail to reach 150 million, and by a considerable margin, many people are proclaiming "DOOM!" But the DS shouldn't be considered the bar. It should be considered a fluke, an abberation. It took the original Game Boy line (including the Game Boy Color) 12 years to reach what it did. Twelve years! The DS passed the Game Boy after only five years and sold 150 million in seven years, a goal that the PS2 took 11 years to reach. And let's not forget that the PSP was the first and thus far only non-Nintendo handheld to be successful, thus inflating "seventh-gen" handheld sales ever higher. Did anybody really think that level of success could be replicated even if mobile gaming was a non-issue?

Speaking of mobile, I have my doubts that it is the sole cause of the generation-over-generation drop. While it might be a factor, I think it could be just as much if not more so because of self-inflicted damage. The high initial price of the 3DS, the relative lack of marketing for its system and games (I saw some ads on TV for Smash, the first 3DS ads I've seen on TV in God knows when and the first Nintendo TV ads I've seen since last Christmas), the 3D capability that wasn't exactly universally loved, and the arguably flawed decision making regarding development and release timing of new models (e.g., poor 2DS form factor, XL released too soon). I think that general missteps made with the 3DS may have damaged Nintendo's rep in regards to handhelds or at the very least hurt momentum. However, Nintendo is still a strong enough name to where the 3DS is still selling quite strongly. It can still sell 75-80 million units over its lifespan (which will likely be a shorter lifespan than the DS), which is hardly a disaster.

As for the Vita, when you take into account hidden costs it is either the second or third most expensive handheld in history when adjusted for inflation and has the highest nominal sticker price. That high price, combined with precious few games and near-total lack of marketing (I've never seen a single Vita commercial despite PSP ads being ubiquitous), absolutely destroyed any momentum. This may have created a death spiral as third parties became apprehensive about developing for a system that is too powerful for its own good and has a negligible install base outside of Japan (and even in Japan it's selling at only a fraction of the rate of the PSP), thus resulting in continued poor sales, thus resulting in less major titles, rinse and repeat.

Another reason why I don't think mobile is the sole cause is Japan. Now, isn't Japan supposed to be the most mobile-friendly of the three major markets? If phone & tablet gaming was cannibalizing so much of the handheld market, then why is the dedicated gaming handheld market still thriving in Japan? 2013 sales of the 3DS were still better than all but the two best years of the DS, and combined sales of all handheld platforms that year (3DS, PSP, & PSV) were around 6.5 million units, which compares favorably to every other year in the 21st century except 2006 and 2007 (the two best years of the DS, which represented nearly half of lifetime DS sales in Japan). The 3DS is already on the verge of passing the GBA in Japan and will almost certainly pass the PSP next year. If the 3DS sells 25 million units, that'll make it Nintendo's second-best selling handheld ever in Japan, not to mention it'll have outsold the PS2. If the Vita manages only 8 million on top of that, then combined 3DS & Vita sales will equal lifetime DS sales. The vast majority of the losses this gen in Japan are on Sony's end, with the declining PSP being the primary cause of the slight YoY drops in combined platform sales from 2011 through 2013 and the Vita having a massive drop, which again is likely thanks in large part to its massive launch price. The handheld market in Japan isn't so much shrinking as it is seeing one company's fortunes in said market taking a turn for the worse.

So, this is more of a problem with the West. The 3DS has only been selling at around PSP levels in America and Europe, and the Vita is barely a blip. Now, why would mobile only cannibalize sales in the West but not in Japan? Are the Japanese simply more open to a world where phone/tablet gaming and dedicated gaming handhelds coexist? In other words, are they willing to buy both, whereas Americans and Europeans are less willing, thinking dinky little apps like Candy Crush are a perfectly suitable replacement for "real" gaming experiences like those on Nintendo handhelds? While it's certainly possible that such differences exist between the Japanese and Western markets, I'm not inclined to believe it without hard evidence, say, market research or polling suggesting that most Americans and Europeans who bought handhelds in the past are now satisfied with just gaming on their phone whereas most Japanese who bought handhelds in the past still prefer having that experience instead of or in conjunction with cheap mobile gaming apps. Until such evidence is presented, I'm still sticking with my theory that, as with home systems, games, pricing, and marketing are still the biggest contributors to the relative success of any platform, handheld or console. Looking at history, at least that theory has evidence to back it up instead of relying purely on assertions held to be self-evident.

TL;DR Version: Handheld gaming might not be reaching the absolutely stellar heights of last generation, but I think it's ridiculous to insist that it has to and then to proclaim "doom" when sales of newer systems fail to reach those impossible goals. Sony may withdraw from handheld gaming after this generation, but Nintendo still has a place in that market. The 3DS has sold very well so far and will attain very good lifetime sales, far from what any rational being would consider a harbinger of doom.

The 3DS has been out since February 26, 2011 in Japan. That's about 3 2/3 years. The console had plenty of time to establish itself. And it's only recently approaching the DS' half-way all-time sales mark. 3 2/3 years is a long time in the gaming world. Your sales in the first 3 2/3 years are generally going to be a lot higher than in the next 3 2/3 years. Even after the PS Vita crashed and burned in dramatic fashion in Japan (the PS Vita's install base in Japan is only 16% that of the PSP's install base) Nintendo's market has shrunk. And I don't exactly see the home consoles in Japan picking up the slack either. We all know the Japanese home console market shrunk like crazy last gen. All these Japanese gamers are gone. They are playing games on the iPhone or Android. Or they are investing time and money on other forms of entertainment. A smaller market is not a big deal if your expenses are scaled down to reflect the smaller market. But Nintendo has been bleeding money for the last three years. They need to do something different. Their game plan just isn't working. The New 3DS hasn't given me any sort of indication that Nintendo knows what they are doing. They're repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Their handheld line doesn't have to live up to the DS. But the company needs to do what it can to get in the black again. Nintendo's financial situation has been pretty iffy in the last 3 years http://ycharts.com/companies/NTDOY/net_income_ttm

SONY has REALLY struggled the last 5 years http://ycharts.com/companies/SNEJF/net_income_ttm so you can kiss the Playstation Portable goodbye from now on. SONY is going to invest their funds into more profitable ventures.



NiKKoM said:

I think core gaming as a whole is standing on a massive shift.. with the casual audience away to better places..its gonna be really hard to convince that core audience to buy your triple A game.. especially with every other company out there trying to convince you of buying their game.. there won't be enough money from the core audience..  portable already shifted away with its audience and there is nothing any of them can do anything about it.

Peope underestimated the sales casual audience were responsible for. Revamping the E-store won't help... Nintendo should have gotten more pro-active to go after the indies but thats too late now.. they are gone and never going back.


Actually everything points into the exactly opposite direction: brand new IPs are breaking sales records, 8th generation consoles are destroying their previous intsall bases, and the portable handheld market simply shrank back to its pre-7th gen size, tough that is the only core market segmentone that will arguably stay a niche, but hibrid smart devices will make portable core gaming a reality.

The casual audience is huge, yet IMO the core audience is also growing, albeit at a much slower rate. Never the less, many developers will still choose to make a game for a 10 million audience that is ready to shell out 60$+ for a piece of software rather than for 500 million users who are afraid to drop more then 1$ for a game.



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Podings said:
The NES and SNES relied on casual gamers too. They had nowhere else to go. So in that regard these systems were not terribly different from Wii and DS.

I can also not take the title of this topic particularly seriously when the 3DS is outselling all home systems combined in Japan.

While Nintendo owes a lot of it's success to casual games like Tetris, Duck Hunt (a pack-in title but still important) and Dr. Mario (my sister LOVED that game), those kinds of games were not the main focus of the NES and Gameboy (Tetris was probably the greatest original Gameboy game of all-time though. Pokemon was up there too. Pokemon Red/Blue single-handedly made me want to buy a Gameboy. It's my all-time favourite original Gameboy game). Core games like 2D Super Mario Bros, 2D Zelda and third-party titles like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were the meat and potatoes of the NES. Wii had 2D Super Mario Bros too. And the casuals bought 2D Super Mario Bros in large numbers. But 2D Super Mario Bros isn't the reason why the Wii took off. The motion controls brought Nintendo to the dance. 2D Super Mario Bros was just the icing and cherry on top.

The Japanese home console market has been in free-fall mode for the past 7-8 years now maybe while the DS and PSP were picking up the slack last gen. This gen it's smartphones and tablets and other forms of entertainment in Japan that are getting their attention.



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Winning a console war in Japan in 2014 doesn't mean anything when the sales figures look like this.

3DS 16,305,639
PSV 3,227,735
WiiU 1,931,114
PS4 723,160
XOne 30,991

The console gaming market in Japan has shrunk massively. If the 3DS manages to sell 25 million in Japan lifetime, they will do so in a market where they have no real competition from console manufacturers. For Nintendo to face virtually no competition from other consoles but still see their sales drop goes to show you how much of an impact Apple and Google have had on the Japanese market. They cannibalized a huge chunk of the console market in Japan.

Do you think Nintendo's investors care more about the fact that the company has been losing money the past 3 years or the fact that they are winning some little console war in Japan? A market that has become largely irrelevant to console manufacturers this generation. The PS Vita is the #2 console in Japan and SONY wants to throw in the towel and shift focus to Playstation TV. That tells you everything about how bad the market for consoles is in Japan.

Nintendo is also a multi-national corporation that has historically relied a lot on the international markets for their success for almost 30 years. So you can't just casually brush off their dreadful performance in North America, Europe and emerging markets. Focusing on Japan first and foremost may work for a small Japanese publisher. But it's not befitting of Nintendo. They have way too much overhead invested in the western market. And it's not Reggie's fault that Nintendo is doing poorly in North America. And it's not Shibata's fault that it's doing poorly in Europe. The problem starts at the corporate culture at the top of the organization and trickles down. Nintendo just does whatever they want, even when they are losing money and the investors are pissed off, and they are resistant to change. Iwata is probably going to get canned and Miyamoto will quietly retire.



It's not dead yet, but it's days are numbered.
As I've said in another thread, if Nintendo make a next gen portable as a dedicated gaming device, it will go the way of the Vita.



paypay88 said:
No its shifted to Mobile.
i can play bioshock , crazy taxi gta sanandreas and old pc games as well as indies on my Tablet and Phone
why would i need inferior hardware with games that 39$
while i can buy GTA Sanandreas for example $3 or $4

3DS hardware sucks much and iPhone and Android is much better than 3DS


THIS +10000000000000000, 3DS hardware totally sucks. Delusional fanboys always say the otherwise.

 

User was moderated for this post - Conegamer 



is not dead

ok, i agree is dying, but not dead yet.



Sanky0 said:
paypay88 said:
No its shifted to Mobile.
i can play bioshock , crazy taxi gta sanandreas and old pc games as well as indies on my Tablet and Phone
why would i need inferior hardware with games that 39$
while i can buy GTA Sanandreas for example $3 or $4

3DS hardware sucks much and iPhone and Android is much better than 3DS


THIS +10000000000000000, 3DS hardware totally sucks. Delusional fanboys always say the otherwise.


we dont buy for the hardware, we buy a 3ds for gaming experience. that is believe that phones and tablets cant reproduce, even with more power.