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Forums - Nintendo - Hyrule Warriors shows the Wii U's CPU isn't THAT weak

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Not sure I agree with using hyrule warriors to prove your point. You should play co-op in hyrule warriors it is choppy as fuck, N64 choppy, especially at the start of a mission when the battlefield is filled to the brim with enemies.

My little sis was complaining about the slideshow that was happening on the screen, which isn't a good sign that a casual gamer can notice the steep drop in framerate



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curl-6 said:

Granted, the game's AI routines, animations, and physics are basic to say the least, but the sheer insane amount of active NPCs it swarms the screen with is something that "just three Wii CPUs taped together" certainly couldn't pull off.

The amount doesn't make anywhere near as big an impact as you think, because they're all the same AI routine, but only a select number are "active" at once, there the rest are either in flee or follow modes.

If you go into multiplayer the performance will be effected more because more have to be "active" at once, so you'll see a bigger performance hit than single player.

*edit* as shown above.

It doesn't show that the WiiU's cpu is weak, but it also doesn't show that it isn't, either.



Tachikoma said:
curl-6 said:

Granted, the game's AI routines, animations, and physics are basic to say the least, but the sheer insane amount of active NPCs it swarms the screen with is something that "just three Wii CPUs taped together" certainly couldn't pull off.

The amount doesn't make anywhere near as big an impact as you think, because they're all the same AI routine, but only a select number are "active" at once, there the rest are either in flee or follow modes.

If you go into multiplayer the performance will be effected more because more have to be "active" at once, so you'll see a bigger performance hit than single player.

It doesn't show that the WiiU's cpu is weak, but it also doesn't show that it isn't, either.

Flee/follow is still an AI routine, animation is still done, physics still come into play when over a hundred can be sucked up and thrown around by tornadoes.

It shows its not just "a triple core Wii CPU" as the myth goes.



curl-6 said:

Flee/follow is still an AI routine, animation is still done, physics still come into play when over a hundred can be sucked up and thrown around by tornadoes.

It shows its not just "a triple core Wii CPU" as the myth goes.


flee/follow is the absolute simplest AI routine ever, to the point where it's not even really considered AI, it's actually just considered a proximity trigger.
once the animation data is in memory it can be pulled any number of times with little impact in cpu as long as the animation set is the same (woohoo, it is).

Physics only come in to play when an enemy switches from dormant to active, when an area skill is used any enemies caught in it are switched to non-combative and play the same animation at different points in the loop.

From a game developers perspective, it's really not that impressive, and cannot (and should not) be used to gauge a consoles power, now if you have multiple enemy types (10+), all interacting with each other, and the player at once, all actively set to combative, active, then sure you can say it's a good indicator of cpu, or gpu compute.

but it doesnt, not at any point, the largest number of unique enemies it has in an active area at any point is 4.

Enemy collision boxes consist of a 10 sided central split box, the bare minimum, these collision boxes are not active when mobs are moving (a mob enemy can walk through another enemy while not active), when hit with a large skill or knockback effect, their simplistic collision box shows itself painfully.



Tachikoma said:


flee/follow is the absolute simplest AI routine ever, to the point where it's not even really considered AI, it's actually just considered a proximity trigger.
once the animation data is in memory it can be pulled any number of times with little impact in cpu as long as the animation set is the same (woohoo, it is).

Physics only come in to play when an enemy switches from dormant to active, when an area skill is used any enemies caught in it are switched to non-combative and play the same animation at different points in the loop.

From a game developers perspective, it's really not that impressive, and cannot (and should not) be used to gauge a consoles power, now if you have multiple enemy types, all interacting with each other, and the player at once, all actively set to combative, active, then sure you can say it's a good indicator of cpu, or gpu compute.

but it doesnt, not at any point, the largest number of unique enemies it has in an active area at any point is 4.

Enemy collision boxes consist of a 10 sided central split box, the bare minimum, these collision boxes are not active when mobs are moving (a mob enemy can walk through another enemy while not active), when hit with a large skill or knockback effect, their simplistic collision box shows itself painfully.

You can have a lot more than four; foot solider, keep boss, field captain, level boss, enemy/friendly main characters, (with different movesets per character) archers, summoners...

And you don't process one movement for dozens, (or even hundreds) of enemies moving differently.



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curl-6 said:

And you don't process one movement for dozens, (or even hundreds) of enemies moving differently.

Enemy movement is just vector positioning data with a fixed animation routine playing at a certain frame.

If you think that every individual enemy is being individually managed in realtime, with full physics, motion, effects, hit detection and so on running, you're in for a bad time.

And as has been stated by others, when more user-controlled characters are ingame at once, the performance gets extremely choppy.

If the computation was as big of a deal as you believe it to be, adding a single character extra would not cause such a massive performance hit, in actual fact what is causing the performance hit is that the engines having to force more of the enemies to be active at the same time, i.e. actually using CPU time as apposed to being dormant drones.

All evidence points to this being true.



Tachikoma said:
curl-6 said:

You can have a lot more than four; foot solider, keep boss, field captain, level boss, enemy/friendly main characters, (with different movesets per character) archers, summoners...

And you don't process one movement for dozens, (or even hundreds) of enemies moving differently.

Enemy movement is just vector positioning data with a fixed animation routine playing at a certain frame.

If you think that every individual enemy is being individually managed in realtime, with full physics, motion, effects, hit detection and so on running, you're in for a bad time.

Obviously hit detection isn't applied to a mob that isn't being hit. (Though try running through your own troops; they DO have collision detection) But then, hit detection has to be run for when you wade through an army slashing in every direction. And you cannot run the animations and routines of hundreds of characters for the same performance hit as just one.



curl-6 said:

Obviously hit detection isn't applied to a mob that isn't being hit. (Though try running through your own troops; they DO have collision detection) But then, hit detection has to be run for when you wade through an army slashing in every direction. And you cannot run the animations and routines of hundreds of  haracters for the same performance hit as just one.

It really isn't the big deal you're making it out to be, and isn't a good indicator of the WiiU's power, I've been a game developer for an extremely long time, I have worked on games from all platforms, I was working on a WiiU project up until I resigned to handle my pregnancy, and now, take care of my child.

So I will leave it at this, since you're not going to agree regardless of which information is presented to you, regardless of how qualified the person presenting it is.



Tachikoma said:
curl-6 said:

Obviously hit detection isn't applied to a mob that isn't being hit. (Though try running through your own troops; they DO have collision detection) But then, hit detection has to be run for when you wade through an army slashing in every direction. And you cannot run the animations and routines of hundreds of  haracters for the same performance hit as just one.

It really isn't the big deal you're making it out to be, and isn't a good indicator of the WiiU's power, I've been a game developer for an extremely long time, I have worked on games from all platforms, I was working on a WiiU project up until I resigned to handle my pregnancy, and now, take care of my child.

So I will leave it at this, since you're not going to agree regardless of which information is presented to you, regardless of how qualified the person presenting it is.

Out of curiosity, what other benchmark would you use? Multiplatform games seem an ill fit as they were designed for fundamentally differently CPUs. 



curl-6 said:

Granted, the game's AI routines, animations, and physics are basic to say the least, but the sheer insane amount of active NPCs it swarms the screen with is something that "just three Wii CPUs taped together" certainly couldn't pull off.


Hahahahaha just shows me this is your first Musou game. Even Musou games on PS2 have lots of NPCs on screen, it's nothing special really.