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Forums - Gaming - What makes a good fighting game?

Mr_No said:
ganoncrotch said:
Mr_No said:

Ease of button input. SSF IV was a nightmare for me just because of that. A lot of people had an advantage over me because I wasn't fast or accurate enough to execute the most complex moves. Charge moves? Spinning circle moves? Even the less complex moves were impossible for me to input them under pressure. Tekken is a bit more forgiving on the inputs. They are lengthier, but easier to remember and execute.

On top of that, the game needs to be easy to pick up and hard to master. Something that SSF IV isn't. You either became good after losing 300 times or you didn't. You basically get thrown at the wolves if you go online.

Character design is probably the least important to many, but if a game looks too 2D'ish, I'll probably ignore it completely. Alternate costumes and outfits are a must for me. This is why I preferred DOA 5 Ultimate over the rest. Tekken Tag Tournament 2 decided to be extremely lazy with the alternate costumes in quantity and look; they were worse from the much superior Tekken 6.

Story isn't definitely the fighting genre's strength, but many of the games haven't even tried to get a decent story, so it isn't worth choosing a fighting game for the story. Mortal Kombat being an exception for this.

you mean like Pauls really hard input for his 1/2 to 3/4 health punch? of Back and both punches? Or Yoshimitsu's impale move which if it lands is going to take half a bar of health... which is back back and square. I know those are long wind up moves but there is very little if any inputs in Tekken which are more than a direction and a button combination, Angel/Devils Eyebeam/Flying Beam is either both punches or Kicks but as projectiles in a Tekken universe they can be abused to hell and aren't really soft on the Health bar either. I know a lot of Kings combination grapple moves have massive inputs but in Tekken land he is very much the minority when it comes to commands.

As for my main thing about what makes fighting games great is the ability to keep things even, if a fight is going sour for one player to have something like the revenge bar in SF4 that fills from being hit (or focusing attacks) but where if you happen to get caught out badly and lose a chunk of Health it gives you ammo to have some shot at coming back into the game. Heck some fighters just ruin certain play styles once they have some revenge, don't considering the air to be your friend if you've kicked Hakan a few times for example.

Actually, I was indeed referring to King's grapple inputs since he was the one I mostly used as my main. And it is true what you meant about the Revenge/Ultra bar at SSFIV. Any pro can use it to get back. Thing was, whenever I played with my friend, he would always counter my successful attempt to do said move while my health was low. And to make it worse, I couldn't counter his Ultra in any way. After several times, it got pretty frustrating. Sure, the revenge meter is an useful mechanic to bring you back to the game, but it doesn't work for everyone.


So your issue is your friend knows how to block a move and you don't so that makes the game bad? I mean do you believe that a good fighting game should be one where someone who doesn't know how to block a move or execute a move in a manner where it will land should win?



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ganoncrotch said:
Intrinsic said:
ganoncrotch said:

 

 

I will say again, tekken truly is the best of the fighting games. And this is coming from someone that has played them all.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/apr/03/tekken-tag-tournament-2-officially-added-evo-2014-lineup-namco-bandai-sponsor-event/

TTT2 only added to Evo this year because Namco paid for it to be there, if the guys behind EVO don't believe the game to be worth putting on a tournie for then your opinions of it are lovely, but that is all they are.

And how many other years has the tekken franchise been at EVO? 

You should know that EVO usually only feature games at their evens that are very very very good sellers. Tekken hasn't been selling very well of late. Hence its absence.



Intrinsic said:
ganoncrotch said:
Intrinsic said:
ganoncrotch said:

 

 

I will say again, tekken truly is the best of the fighting games. And this is coming from someone that has played them all.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/apr/03/tekken-tag-tournament-2-officially-added-evo-2014-lineup-namco-bandai-sponsor-event/

TTT2 only added to Evo this year because Namco paid for it to be there, if the guys behind EVO don't believe the game to be worth putting on a tournie for then your opinions of it are lovely, but that is all they are.

And how many other years has the tekken franchise been at EVO? 

You should know that EVO usually only feature games at their evens that are very very very good sellers. Tekken hasn't been selling very well of late. Hence its absence.


You make a fair point, looking at sales since the PS2 era ended Tekken has been a dying franchise, I guess it had the run of the manor on the PS2 since there was no real Street fighter outing that gen (not counting the 3rd EX+Alpha game)

Meant to say btw, when it comes to the unblockable moves having a 3second "arming" time, yoshimitsu's diagonally down forwards and square slash was instant with almost no recoil and many variants of tekken have featured Devil/Angels standing Eyebeam being almost instant with little to no recoil animation as well (the flying one has a ton of arm time but at the same time you can alter that to swoop behind with it as well or in TTT2 turn it into that crazy dive bomb attack)

Don't get me wrong Intrinsic, I really like Tekken, but it has some pretty bad flaws, especially I think if you put it and something like SF4 side by side.



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

ganoncrotch said:
Intrinsic said:

 

And how many other years has the tekken franchise been at EVO? 

You should know that EVO usually only feature games at their evens that are very very very good sellers. Tekken hasn't been selling very well of late. Hence its absence.


You make a fair point, looking at sales since the PS2 era ended Tekken has been a dying franchise, I guess it had the run of the manor on the PS2 since there was no real Street fighter outing that gen (not counting the 3rd EX+Alpha game)

Meant to say btw, when it comes to the unblockable moves having a 3second "arming" time, yoshimitsu's diagonally down forwards and square slash was instant with almost no recoil and many variants of tekken have featured Devil/Angels standing Eyebeam being almost instant with little to no recoil animation as well (the flying one has a ton of arm time but at the same time you can alter that to swoop behind with it as well or in TTT2 turn it into that crazy dive bomb attack)

Don't get me wrong Intrinsic, I really like Tekken, but it has some pretty bad flaws, especially I think if you put it and something like SF4 side by side.

For me when it comes to games like Tekken and SF4 it is more about play style than anything else. Because both are two very technical games. And I have been playing Tekken since part 1....the only time people got hit with the eye beams is when peopel didn't know what they were. After that it was more so on the player for getting hit not so much the game itself.

IMO both SF4 and Tekken have flaws in the gameplay department some more obvious than others and some more forgiving than others. The two are the top of the food chains as far as fighting games go I just prefer Tekken more so than SF.
.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

ganoncrotch said:


You make a fair point, looking at sales since the PS2 era ended Tekken has been a dying franchise, I guess it had the run of the manor on the PS2 since there was no real Street fighter outing that gen (not counting the 3rd EX+Alpha game)

Meant to say btw, when it comes to the unblockable moves having a 3second "arming" time, yoshimitsu's diagonally down forwards and square slash was instant with almost no recoil and many variants of tekken have featured Devil/Angels standing Eyebeam being almost instant with little to no recoil animation as well (the flying one has a ton of arm time but at the same time you can alter that to swoop behind with it as well or in TTT2 turn it into that crazy dive bomb attack)

Don't get me wrong Intrinsic, I really like Tekken, but it has some pretty bad flaws, especially I think if you put it and something like SF4 side by side.

I get what you are saying and mostly agree with you. Tekken does have some flaws.

But so deos SF. All that aside, those are simply two of the absolute best fighters out there. They are also bot h so different its not even fair to compare them to each other. They are both deeply technical games; I am inclined to believe that its near impossible to love both games equally. Your fighting games gene is either attuned to one or the other. The games are such that the reasons you will take one is great is the exact reason you will hate the other. 



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The most important aspect is character balancing. While games like KOF really have a balanced roster, other like Injustice aren't (Aquaman, Superman, Green Arrow and Terminator are totally overpowered while Quinn is useless). The second most important thing is that the game gives you a way to avoid any kind of exploit of repetitive attacks that can win a match. Third most important thing is having a deep gameplay and plenty of aspects to explore.

For me, The King of Fighters is probably the best and is superb in all aspects. Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Capcom and Tekken are pretty good on these aspects too. Mortal Kombat, Injutice and Smash Bros are a little bit lacking in all these departments. Other gems that are pretty on par with KOF would be Garou, Fatal Fury and Samurai Shodown. I would give a bonus to Kizuna Encounter by the deeply creative gameplay. In general, NeoGeo was the home for the start of the best fighting franchises ever. If I had to recommend only one fighting game, it would be KOF 13.



ganoncrotch said:
Mr_No said:

Actually, I was indeed referring to King's grapple inputs since he was the one I mostly used as my main. And it is true what you meant about the Revenge/Ultra bar at SSFIV. Any pro can use it to get back. Thing was, whenever I played with my friend, he would always counter my successful attempt to do said move while my health was low. And to make it worse, I couldn't counter his Ultra in any way. After several times, it got pretty frustrating. Sure, the revenge meter is an useful mechanic to bring you back to the game, but it doesn't work for everyone.


So your issue is your friend knows how to block a move and you don't so that makes the game bad? I mean do you believe that a good fighting game should be one where someone who doesn't know how to block a move or execute a move in a manner where it will land should win?

I didn't mean that. How absurd a game would be if the one that doesn't block always wins? No one would play that game. I meant that after practicing blocking again and again and again, you expect to do better against the skilled people, right? Wrong! No matter how I block while facing a human opponent, they ALWAYS seem to break my defense, whether I'm standing or crouching, or trying to predict where the attack is going to land.



Mr_No said:
ganoncrotch said:
Mr_No said:

Actually, I was indeed referring to King's grapple inputs since he was the one I mostly used as my main. And it is true what you meant about the Revenge/Ultra bar at SSFIV. Any pro can use it to get back. Thing was, whenever I played with my friend, he would always counter my successful attempt to do said move while my health was low. And to make it worse, I couldn't counter his Ultra in any way. After several times, it got pretty frustrating. Sure, the revenge meter is an useful mechanic to bring you back to the game, but it doesn't work for everyone.


So your issue is your friend knows how to block a move and you don't so that makes the game bad? I mean do you believe that a good fighting game should be one where someone who doesn't know how to block a move or execute a move in a manner where it will land should win?

I didn't mean that. How absurd a game would be if the one that doesn't block always wins? No one would play that game. I meant that after practicing blocking again and again and again, you expect to do better against the skilled people, right? Wrong! No matter how I block while facing a human opponent, they ALWAYS seem to break my defense, whether I'm standing or crouching, or trying to predict where the attack is going to land.

You can't just focus on blocking tho, in street fighter I main blanka so tis pretty much no stop agression all the time, love the way he moves compared to others. But yeah just on a technical point if you block high in SF4 you can be sweeped or thrown, if you block low you can be attacked with a jumping attack or an overhead (kens axe kick) you shouldn't think of blocking as a way to stop all damage but more like paper scissors rock but where the other person can see which you've played and if they're fast enough they'll punish it with the right move.

@intrinsic and Naruto tho, what did you guys think of the crossover Tekken X Street fighter? I have it for the ps3/Vita but it just feels so wrong having the Tekken characters stuck on the 2d plane and even having fireball motions for some moves, even the GBA Tekken 3 was a better game for letting the characters move like Tekken chars. I still have all my PS1 tekken games too tucked away in storage, great memories of those.



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

ganoncrotch said:
Mr_No said:

I didn't mean that. How absurd a game would be if the one that doesn't block always wins? No one would play that game. I meant that after practicing blocking again and again and again, you expect to do better against the skilled people, right? Wrong! No matter how I block while facing a human opponent, they ALWAYS seem to break my defense, whether I'm standing or crouching, or trying to predict where the attack is going to land.

You can't just focus on blocking tho, in street fighter I main blanka so tis pretty much no stop agression all the time, love the way he moves compared to others. But yeah just on a technical point if you block high in SF4 you can be sweeped or thrown, if you block low you can be attacked with a jumping attack or an overhead (kens axe kick) you shouldn't think of blocking as a way to stop all damage but more like paper scissors rock but where the other person can see which you've played and if they're fast enough they'll punish it with the right move.

@intrinsic and Naruto tho, what did you guys think of the crossover Tekken X Street fighter? I have it for the ps3/Vita but it just feels so wrong having the Tekken characters stuck on the 2d plane and even having fireball motions for some moves, even the GBA Tekken 3 was a better game for letting the characters move like Tekken chars. I still have all my PS1 tekken games too tucked away in storage, great memories of those.


No lie I felt SF X Tekken was TRASH the Tekken characters just did not blend well or fit well in my opinion. I was FAR more interested in the Tekken X SF that was canned. I felt that would have worked out much better. Like yous aid the Tekken characters being stuck in 2d just didn't work at all.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

3 things im looking for a good fighting game.
1. Interactive
2. Unique customization
3. Skill based