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Forums - Politics Discussion - Lazy Americans.....‘We’re a Movement Now': Fast Food Workers Strike in 150 Cities (edit) OP is poor, don't act like I am being all high and mighty!

Regardless of the minimum wage and whether these people are going to get any increase or not... A different fight, a more fundamental one, has been going on and will continue to go on that strikes a heart at our labor sector.

1. These jobs, one by one, are going to go away. Maybe not all of them, but many of them, never to return unless we suddenly lose our ability to use technology.
2. Some people, no matter what, seem to be unable to cope with more than doing simple, though still hard, labor. It could be that education in this country for a specific segment of this country (minorities) really sucks. It could be the endemic racial aspect of our society, that despite denials, is still very much alive. It could also be the fact that it is, also despite some examples in this thread of moving up from these types of jobs to better and better ones, that it _is_ hard to move up the economic ladder.
3. There are many indications that there will be larger and larger segments of the population that don't have jobs, some permanently. The very young, the very old are obvious. But also people who have gone to jail, for even minor offenses continually to find it harder to get jobs. Those who only do labor. The uneducated. The sick. Etc.
4. At some point the above will become so overwhelming that it degrades the economy and/or the peace.

Given the above I think the fundamental fight won't be over the minimum wage, but over a negative income tax. Instead of mandating people be paid a certain wage, instead of having a convoluted subsidy system, our tax system is able to go into the negative such that no matter what people are able to afford to live a basic life. Not a lavish one, but at least one that supports them and a child.

Will some people stop working and just lazily live off the basic income? Yep, but so be it. They won't be living an enviable life, unless of course that minimalist life is the one you want. Plenty of people are still going to want to strive and thrive. Plenty of people are going to want to innovate, learn, explore, advance. Let those that can't or wont at least have the possibility of surviving _above_ abject poverty in the streets.

Will some people overspend on gadgets, or food, or drugs? Yep, but so be it. A proper negative income tax gives people everyone who needs it nearly every possibility for them to live, if they choose to throw that away, we can at least finally say we did something to address the problem.

A negative income tax could finally do something to address the excessive inequality and the probably inevitable future where there just are not enough jobs for every able bodied person. The minimum wage does nothing really to address anything anymore except that it is a talking point for pointless talking heads and politicians to wrangle about.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



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spurgeonryan said:
Mr Khan said:
Your compassion for your fellow man never ceases to amaze me, Spurge.

I have a min...well had one. I worked my butt off to become a Manager in about a years time. And not just one step up, I jumped three positions. I am short, balding, aging, not in great shape, not funny or really that smart and nothing really that special. But I worked my butt off with three kids at home, working nights to get a where I am at now. I was a waiter a decade ago. I did not sit around and cry in my warm milk that I was making min wage in Washington State, no I joined the military to better my life and my families life. I went to college, which most companies will pay for, including Walmart and the Military.

Forget these people who had kids when they were 15, smoked, did drugs, got tatoos, drank, etc who barely can get a min wage job while barely passing a piss test, and then causing all sorts of trouble for the employers who had to look under every crack to find you. I can barely get any workers. Why? They do not show up, they are on drugs, they get the job and realize they have to work and not just stand around playing videogames waiting for their mommy to give them lunch money.

 

Why can't these people do this! Why do they need a 5-7 dollar raise? Work hard and most places give you a raise yearly.

Compassion? I help my employees daily! I donate money to people, I help people all the time. This is not compassion, it is just not being blind to the laziness of the American society. Want something for nothing.

What are your hiring practices?

Paying $7.50 an hour pretty much guarantees you only get young kids just looking for some extra cash (IE most who barely care about the job) or people who are barely employable, the uneducated, etc. Why? Because anyone who is employable already has a better job or is looking for a better job. $7.50 sucks ass. Very few but the desperate are willing to accept that, and now even those people have had enough of the absurd low wages. Pay more if you want better people. 



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



Mr Khan said:
adriane23 said:
Working at Burger King was one of the worst jobs I ever had. I worked hard at it though and I was offered a manager position after 8 months just before I quit. They deserve more money than what they're getting, but $15/hr? A union? I don't think so. A low skill job is still a low skill job, no matter how fast you can put together a whopper.

They do need a union, though. Unions are good for two things: professional guilds to help make sure that tradesmen aren't caught in a race to the bottom with each other (so carpenters, et al don't have to worry as much about competing on price as they do on service), and unskilled labor, because the bottom of the market is most vulnerable to abuses by management.

The union helps fix problems like wage theft and can standardize rules about scheduling which are two of the biggest problems for people working in these types of situations.

30 years ago, yes, but unions in general are way too powerful now in my opinion. And the idea of 15 year olds in unions just seems odd to me. I get where you're coming from though.



I am the Playstation Avenger.

   

sc94597 said:
etking said:

If you are coming from a poor family, you have no chance to go to school because you have to struggle 24/7 with other serious and sometimes life-threatening issues, like mental illness, food, general safety, health problems, social problems, money and criminality. Often friends and family can make this situation even worse because they will get you deeper into the mess.

This may be hard to hard to imagine to someone coming from a more wealthy family but most of them would not survive 24 hours when being put into a poor man's life.

Please. I go to a top 30 private university that only admits 16% of qualified applicants,graduated in the top 10% of my class, and my mom dropped out of high school in the tenth grade and worked as a waitress her whole life, making less than minimum wage. To say there is NO chance of attending school, and to imply that the affluent don't experience life threatening issues, mental illness, health problems, and even social problems is disingenous. 

This post, ending in appalling spelling of disingenuous, made my day.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

adriane23 said:
Mr Khan said:
adriane23 said:
Working at Burger King was one of the worst jobs I ever had. I worked hard at it though and I was offered a manager position after 8 months just before I quit. They deserve more money than what they're getting, but $15/hr? A union? I don't think so. A low skill job is still a low skill job, no matter how fast you can put together a whopper.

They do need a union, though. Unions are good for two things: professional guilds to help make sure that tradesmen aren't caught in a race to the bottom with each other (so carpenters, et al don't have to worry as much about competing on price as they do on service), and unskilled labor, because the bottom of the market is most vulnerable to abuses by management.

The union helps fix problems like wage theft and can standardize rules about scheduling which are two of the biggest problems for people working in these types of situations.

30 years ago, yes, but unions in general are way too powerful now in my opinion. And the idea of 15 year olds in unions just seems odd to me. I get where you're coming from though.

Too powerful? Unions have been slowly gutted for years, and are currently mostly good in their ability to organize politically.

Country needs unionization back in a big way.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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starcraft said:
sc94597 said:
etking said:

If you are coming from a poor family, you have no chance to go to school because you have to struggle 24/7 with other serious and sometimes life-threatening issues, like mental illness, food, general safety, health problems, social problems, money and criminality. Often friends and family can make this situation even worse because they will get you deeper into the mess.

This may be hard to hard to imagine to someone coming from a more wealthy family but most of them would not survive 24 hours when being put into a poor man's life.

Please. I go to a top 30 private university that only admits 16% of qualified applicants,graduated in the top 10% of my class, and my mom dropped out of high school in the tenth grade and worked as a waitress her whole life, making less than minimum wage. To say there is NO chance of attending school, and to imply that the affluent don't experience life threatening issues, mental illness, health problems, and even social problems is disingenous. 

This post, ending in appalling spelling of disingenuous, made my day.

I agree that the Affluent also experience those things, but the problem is that the wealthy have access to deal with those issues. The poor would not be able to afford ESCPECIALLY deal with Mental Illnesses without spendning a Alot of money, Money they don't have.



Mr Khan said:
adriane23 said:
Mr Khan said:
adriane23 said:
Working at Burger King was one of the worst jobs I ever had. I worked hard at it though and I was offered a manager position after 8 months just before I quit. They deserve more money than what they're getting, but $15/hr? A union? I don't think so. A low skill job is still a low skill job, no matter how fast you can put together a whopper.

They do need a union, though. Unions are good for two things: professional guilds to help make sure that tradesmen aren't caught in a race to the bottom with each other (so carpenters, et al don't have to worry as much about competing on price as they do on service), and unskilled labor, because the bottom of the market is most vulnerable to abuses by management.

The union helps fix problems like wage theft and can standardize rules about scheduling which are two of the biggest problems for people working in these types of situations.

30 years ago, yes, but unions in general are way too powerful now in my opinion. And the idea of 15 year olds in unions just seems odd to me. I get where you're coming from though.

Too powerful? Unions have been slowly gutted for years, and are currently mostly good in their ability to organize politically.

Country needs unionization back in a big way.

Gutted? Based on what? If I recall, almost every facet of the U.S. auto industry is unionized. The UAW is essentially the American auto industry. The teacher's unions are the most powerful and influential unions in the country, and they even extend their reach outside of education. The country needs unionization back? Where did it go?

EDIT: And people choosing not to join a union (which has increased) is not the same as a union being gutted.



I am the Playstation Avenger.

   

It's not that easy to go to college and get a high paying job. $15 an hour is not even that much with the cost of living these days.I have a college degree and can not even get hired in my field. their wages should be higher since these fast food restaurants are making billions and this is still one of the richest countries in the world.i agree with them.Minimum wage should be at least $8 dollars an hour.



Hoodieninja said:
starcraft said:
sc94597 said:

Please. I go to a top 30 private university that only admits 16% of qualified applicants,graduated in the top 10% of my class, and my mom dropped out of high school in the tenth grade and worked as a waitress her whole life, making less than minimum wage. To say there is NO chance of attending school, and to imply that the affluent don't experience life threatening issues, mental illness, health problems, and even social problems is disingenous. 

This post, ending in appalling spelling of disingenuous, made my day.

I agree that the Affluent also experience those things, but the problem is that the wealthy have access to deal with those issues. The poor would not be able to afford ESCPECIALLY deal with Mental Illnesses without spendning a Alot of money, Money they don't have.

I wasn't commenting on the topic, just the bragging about intellect



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

spurgeonryan said:
etking said:

If you are coming from a poor family, you have no chance to go to school because you have to struggle 24/7 with other serious and sometimes life-threatening issues, like mental illness, food, general safety, health problems, social problems, money and criminality. Often friends and family can make this situation even worse because they will get you deeper into the mess.

This may be hard to hard to imagine to someone coming from a more wealthy family but most of them would not survive 24 hours when being put into a poor man's life.


I passed high school because I worked hard to do so. My mom had no money for college. I went with a grant. I was dirt poor my whole life. Food stamps and lived in a drafty mouse infested house. Other than when I was in the military, I have been well below poverty my whole life. Do not give me this crap! I have three kids that I provide for by myself. Have not heard from the mom in a year. Even then she never gave anything but a lecture over the phone how I should raise my kids that I have full custody of now.

Don't anyone dare say they have such a horrible life and they just cant get anywhere! Make something happen! I have lived in Apartments, had crappy cars, depended on people I did not want to, and did things I did not want to. Throwing a fit and trying to make the government and your employer who already struggles to pay you 7 dollars more an hour is just classic American bull crap! Especially these days.

Not all minimuim wage jobs are easy, they're accessible but not easy, including fast food jobs. I work two jobs to support myself while going to school full-time. I work as an assistant manager at Popeye's, and in a factory job. My factory job pays $12 a hour, Popeye's pays $9. Guess which work is harder? Popeyes. Absolutely Popeye's, and I don't work as near as hard as a crew member. Let me break this down to you.

 

Since Obama Care happened crew members have to work less than thirty hours, which means we're always understaffed, causing one person having to do two people's worth or work. Which causes us to work at a hectic pace.

 

We have a drive thru system that we have little control over, in where the customer has to get out in under 180. If we don't meet this then I will get cussed out by my boss, as will the employees. I will possibly get fired, and I will possibly have to cut some poor guy's hours or fire him.

 

We have to memorize 30 recipes there, all of our food is made fresh, all of it, no pre-cooked shit. Cooks have to be in a hot ass kitchen frying chicken with no break for 8 hours, the company doesn't feed them or give them anything to drink other than a cone of water. A CONE of water. 

 

The store does 50K in sales and yet only 6K of that is labor, 4K is our weekly truck, and 5K goes to other costs. That's a massive profit.

 

I get paid $9 to run someone elses business, long work hours, lots of paper work, calling around, getting blamed and yelled it, etc, it's very taxing and stressful. A crew member has it worse than me in every way imaginable. This bullshit company won't feed them or give them hours or fucking something to drink, instead they work like fucking slaves in unsafe environments, at stupid temperatures for $7.40 a hour. One of my employees passed out cause of the heat, new people quit on their first day because it's so fucking hot and I have to tell them to do slave work. 

 

And it's like slave work, working non-stop being understaffed, doing two people's worth or work in hot temperatures, you have to move at a hectic pace. And we get NO benefits, not even a free fucking meal. 

 

So don't fucking tell me fast food workers don't work hard, or minimuim wage jobs. I've done MORE jobs, with LESS work, for MORE money. And just because you work fast food doesn't mean you're not uneducated. I have a girl that got a degree in fucking economics who can't find a job, who also can't make fucking rent because of how low the pay is. People with degrees can't even find jobs and they're forced to work these jobs that can't support them. At the very least they need full time hours back, but thanks to Obama many people at my job have lost their homes, vehicles, etc. It's very depressing because they are good people, and in order to work in my franchise you have to be a hard worker. 

 

Meanwhile, the corporation makes a killing off our hard work, make a killing of a me, who runs the business for them....for $9 a hour. It's simply not fair, in my opinion.

 

I have a friend in the UK who runs a fast food joint, they run labor at a 23%.

 

In America I have to run it below 11% or I'm fired.

 

American are greedy, as simple as that.

 

 

Most jobs aren't hiring full-time period. Thanks to the whole, over 30 hours a week = Health Care bullshit Obama pulled many people lost their homes, even when making above min. wage. I live alone and support myself, and all the full-time jobs are skill based. I'll ride it out until I graduate next year but even then I'd be lucky to land a job. However, I still look because I hate my job. But hey, that's life. I'm not saying they should raise $15, but $7.40 with less than 30 hrs, when they know people aren't hiring, and they make massive profits is fucking disgusting, in my opinion.

 

You have to see the shit to really feel where I'm coming from tho. You're not seeing people lose their homes and everything they worked for, while greedy assholes pull up in a Range Rover telling you to fire people for leaving early because their kid is in the hospital.

 

I stay in Detroit, where the economy is truly shit, the only jobs here are factory jobs, I already work in a factory. As I said I work two jobs, and I wouldn't be able to work two factory jobs because they honestly don't give a fuck about your schedule, I make the schedule at my other job so yeah. Not many jobs in Detroit, and too many people competing for them. I'm blessed to be working two honestly, the reason why corporations treat their workers like this is because they can where I live because people don't want to lose their job because it could realistically take YEARS to get another one. Not even kidding, YEARS.

 

Regarding school. Foh. Some people I know never had a chance at life public schools are shit and even the charter School ones. I know kids who looked at school as a free meal and nothing more. How can you focus on school when shit gets so real at home? I'm talking mom smoking crack dad nowhere to be found, raising yourself and another sibling? When I was young I had to take care or myself and my younger sister. My cousins were homeless. How tf were they supposed to work hard and go to school when guns drugs and other forms of violence were in there life. Fuck school. Surviving is more important for a lot of kids. Especially since we were African American. In school people were getting stabbed even shot and the teachers NEVER showed up. The edication system in some places are fucked and the teachers and principals don't care about schools. Just care about making money and shit. So don't fucking go there with that "Why don't you just get a skill" bullshit line. You DON'T know what goes on in the streets. 90% of fast food workers come from poverty as well. See the connection. That whole 'I came from nothing argument" seemed as fake as a white person saying "I'm not racist my best friend is black line!"