Soriku said:
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You're probably right. Still, in some religions you need to do ridiculous things or else you will go to Hell, and in Christianity I realized saying one certain sentence could damn you to Hell with no way out. Having those kind of things on your mind isn't very comforting, I think (Mostly for the first one).
In 50 years we will be arguing about something else. The same as Galileo and his bros caught shit from the church. Now this is the next step. I mean people who believe in facts and science don't have an answer to some questions but they don't make something up. They are content saying "I don't know". The problem is people that simply can't accept "we just are because we are" are the ones that need faith or some sense of greater purpose which is what pulls them to faith. It is simply denial in the grandest sense.
People that point to god have a built in wild card. When challenged for proof they get to say "god, next question" When we have carbon dating and analysis that tells us the universe is 15 billion years (forgive me if im off im drinking grown up beverages) and fossils, DNA/RNA protein synthesis all of which is ignored in holy books we have enough science to try to learn and build knowledge. I mean people that actually study religion and philosophy (which is strangely most often people that aren't religious) see parallels from scripture that mimic needs or social policy of the times.
I find it peculiar that God had no problem possessing and talking to people throughout the times of scripture but is lacking recently. Unless you count the lady who drives her three children into a lake and kills them because God told her.....sounds similar to abraham but i digress.
Look back throughout history. Show me one instance where the church prevailed over free thinkers not bound to the notion that searching for answers is blasphemous in an obvious attempt to hold power, money and influence.
I get you people want to feel important but some we simply aren't meant for some higher purpose. Sorry, you will die, it will go black, and the world will forget you. The sooner you come to terms with it the better.
spurgeonryan said:
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The major flaw of science is explaining the beginning because truthfully as it stand we have no way of knowing that until some technology helps us understand how it occured. The problem with the bible is it explains nothing....it just says in "the beginning, do this do that so you dont go to hell, rapture, tribulation, the return of Christ"..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Science is an educated explaination. We cannot assume what we dont know. Christians demand an answer when all the while no one gave them the truest of answers in their book.
Don't ask for proof when the whole premise of what you follow demands faith. (belief without proof)
| CommonNinja said: But you do have to admit that there are holes in the theory. Each year the earth is getting farther and farther away from the sun. 3.6B years ago when the first lifeform suposidly formed, earth would have been much closer to the sun, and too hot to sustain any life. Likewise, earth's rotational spin is slowing down, which means that it must have been faster years ago. If you do the math back to 3.6B years ago, earth would have been spinning so rapidly that we would have day and night change within seven hours, and it would have increased the magnetic field of earth by astronomical perportions (which in turn would make earths climate much hotter, and unsustainable to life). Also, the moon is getting further away form the earth which means that 3.6 B years ago, it would have hovered mere miles above our atmosphere, and caused massive tidle waves. Of coarse scientist don't believe we have had our moon forever, but that is another discussion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_rotation These are just a few example of problems with the theory, there are more that I just don't have time to add right now. |
Why are those problems with what theory? Why would live be unsustainable?
There are microbial colonies in the deep ocean around lava vents that live of sulpher in temperatures exceeding that of boiling water.
https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Deep_sea_vent
Sure there are gaps in how the earth came to life. But a 7 hour day and a hot earth don't make live unsustainable.
The current theory is that the moon was formed 4.5 billion years ago at 22.5k km from the surface while the earth had 5 hour days. The earliest traces of bacteria began 800 million years later. Humans would certainly not be able to survive on earth as it was 3.7B years ago, single celled organisms apparently could.
Soriku said:
Job 28:25 - They reference wind, not air. They probably figured the wind has "weight" (mainly pressure) because the wind is able to knock stuff over and such. Anyone can easily observe this. This makes sense. Israel - Let me put it this way, if the USA suddenly decided to nuke and invade Israel with their entire force, just as an example, they're fucked. Faith in god doesn't matter. Any of their losses (Bible stories aside) have nothing to do with god. You could just say God let the invasion happen because of the unfaithfulness. Virgin birth - Where in the Bible does it say you're married once you have sex? I just think It's like that. There wasn't always legal marrige, and the people become "one flesh", which lead me to think It's that way. I might be wrong though. Messiah - With this one the idea is that the original prophecy was not fulfilled. Jesus was born in Bethelehem, yes, but that's not what the original prophecy referred to. I might get back to this one. Disappointment - OK, but what was this passage referring to? It says that Daniel 8:14 says after 2,300 days (Which doesn't always mean actual days. It's probably years, since they used a one week covenant to represent 7 years) the sanctuary will be restored to It's rightful state. Their proof that this didn't happen is that William Miller was wrong about when Jesus would return. The real thing they need to prove is if 2,300 years after the prophecy was made, the sanctuary wasn't restored. Cyrus - With this one, the idea is what the prophecy doesn't mean much when the conquer was inevitable. So not much of a prophecy. Babylon seems to be implied although it's not directly stated. Still, it didn't say the thing would happen, so you can't call it a failed Bible prophecy. One thing, do you honestly believe Egyptians will speak the dead Canaanite language in the future? If you believe that's one of the prophecies that will come true. Based on what? It's very likely that the Bible is just plain wrong in this case. If God is real, it will happen one day.
Me running (More or less) into the same issue doesn't justify the Universe creating itself. |
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Science is an educated explaination. We cannot assume what we dont know. Christians demand an answer when all the while no one gave them the truest of answers in their book. Don't ask for proof when the whole premise of what you follow demands faith. (belief without proof) |
This is not a flaw this is the strength of science and why this debate has no end. One side admits to not knowing and the other uses that as their most sure truth.
Soriku said:
You have a number of reasons to live here on Earth, and you can create your own goals too. These goals can give your life purpose, if you really need one. Whatever you enjoy can be enough motivation to live too. Worshipping a god and setting yourself up for another life just seem like superfluous reasons. From my point of view these aren't 'greater' purposes at all or even sufficiently satisfy a reason to live. Even if god and the afterlife are real, how do these things make you feel important? On god's method of communication, it's peculiar that the best God Almighty has got is some text on scrolls. For such an important message, you'd think he'd do better if he were real. And with the Christian god, everything seems to be focused on just the Middle East. |
Again it goes to back to controlling masses. Why do you think the cornerstone of the faith is donation and poverty? All the while the entire premise of it is "trust me"? Religion capitalized on peoples desire for purpose and still does to an extent. Even if you're a serf or peasant if this life isnt all there is then thats a lot better and more promising because you will never ascend socially (during the "teachings/scripture" era and even today: see the american dream conundrum). Also, it is no coincidence that the cornerstone of faith is living poor (or donating so to speak) so you have both segments locked up. Control peasants from uprising and harness the rich so that their money can buy eternal happiness.
When religion is studied through social contexts rooted in historical substance and the acquisition of power it plays out as nothing more than a brilliant social ploy.
Soriku said:
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The fear of death. I am a nurse in America and do a lot of projects for my masters program on health care costs/public health/access to care.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelbell/2013/01/10/why-5-of-patients-create-50-of-health-care-costs/
Not wanting to die or wanting assurance that death is not the end transcends cultures. The reason I believe religion to be so successful is it preys on this inherant fear of death that exists. you would think for a country that is a "christian nation" and the elected leader swears on the bible we would be more okay with dying and actually welcome it, no? This is the greatest question I have. If an athlete scores a touchdown or someone does well they praise god but never blame it for failure. God enables all success but is not responsible for any failure. Why do we (IE religious folks), while living, fight so hard to keep living in the face of sure death? Suicide is viewed as a sin in most religious institutions because if you sell someone on eternal afterlife whats to stop them from ending it to get there (then they cant spread the word and donate money). Again, it is a brilliant scheme to control the masses. All that is good comes from God, all that is bad is because you werent devout enough. People bought it because it was their only hope. they didnt have knowledge, access to education or money. The same reason, and im not sterotyping, that most people who identify as atheist/agnostic know more about religion that those who practice it. Atheist/agnostics are also overall, better educated. Seeking truth is not part of religion, accepting without questioning is a cornerstone, however.
http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/
EDIT: For the rich, it is simply greed. The idea of everlasting life, you can donate, feel important, justify sins at the expense of donation. All the while corruption, pedophilia can be explained away or forgiven weekly. A built in "out" clause. Perfect.
smakz said:
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I'd be a little interested in knowing how a rock could create a universe, but other than that, sure.
Soriku said:
-You could say that, but I wonder how many people would? There would be no way to justify the idea that god let an invasion happen. Chances are Israel is like any other country and can get invaded for similar reasons. -The idea of one flesh harkens back to Genesis, even before Adam and Eve had any children. I always just took it as the marriage (not necessarily legal marriage as we know it now) itself signified one flesh, but then sex is a follow up and would consummate the marriage I suppose. -OK about Daniel. -It was still referring to this dude Cyrus who was going to subdue nations and stripping kings though. -Well, if the Christian god is real it might happen. Or not. -It doesn't justify the universe creating itself (we don't have all the answers yet), but the justification for god's existence is weak as well by using the same reasoning. |
-There's no way to justify it, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
-Well, assuming that virgin was a mistranslation, and it is supposed to be maiden (And that you could be a virgin, and still married in God's eyes), it wouldn't mean that Mary wasn't a virginn
-You're probably right. There isn't enough proof of God to convince you until the end times actually happen. 
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