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Forums - Politics - Where did the Big Bang Come from?

Puppyroach said:

so then we might agree that using God as an explanation is more wishful thinking than something we actually think exist? I could claim that invisible, fuzzy bears are the force behind the concept of love, bit can we agree that it is more probable that another explanation is behind the concept of love? What I am getting at is that people should keep god out of these discussions and only use god as part of your faith, nothing else.

and regarding consciousness, what you are describing is a behavior that is part of us as animals. We have just decided to call a very basic behavior as consciousness because, once again, it fits our world view. We can compare with some kinds of birds, that actually lies down and dies when their partner passes away. We also see animals that are depressed or are cannibals. Those are not logical behavior but it part of the animal kingdom, just as we are.

Then by all means, propose this "much more probable" explanation.

To an extent this behavior is, but it's much different in humans than in any other species of animal. While animals do express sorrow, depression, and the likes, humans are the species that most prominently tie these feelings to their actions as opposed to what happens around them. For example, someone feels good for donating money to a charity. Someone feels bad for having sex with some random person they've never met. The actions that animals show emotion from are generally reactionary, whereas with humans it's a response to what they themselves did.

I'd also add, again, that consciousness seems odd not simply because it doesn't drive us to do things that would benefit us, but because it often drives us to do things that are against our best survival interests.

 

Quote Tree Shortened - Conegamer



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MTZehvor said:

Then by all means, propose this "much more probable" explanation.

To an extent this behavior is, but it's much different in humans than in any other species of animal. While animals do express sorrow, depression, and the likes, humans are the species that most prominently tie these feelings to their actions as opposed to what happens around them. For example, someone feels good for donating money to a charity. Someone feels bad for having sex with some random person they've never met. The actions that animals show emotion from are generally reactionary, whereas with humans it's a response to what they themselves did.

I'd also add, again, that consciousness seems odd not simply because it doesn't drive us to do things that would benefit us, but because it often drives us to do things that are against our best survival interests.

I seriously hope you don't mean that the burden of proof of one of the greatest scientific challenges is on me, because you claim a god did it? There was a time when we thought the sun rotated around the earth and by just looking at it, you could easily assume that. Does that mean a god was behind the sun revolving around the earth, just because we hadn't found out it was the other way around yet? Just because we don't know the explanation for something, doesn't give us the right to make the most outrageous claim without proof. So in conclusion, neither you or me has any theory that we can prove, so why is a god suddenly the most probable explanation?

 

Quote Tree Shortened - Conegamer



spurgeonryan said:
I am just a dumb un-educated Christian. I don't know anything. Sorry to make you non-believers so nervous and upset.

Come on Spurge, there's no need for comments like this one. 

So you know I thought a lot of what you said made sense (at least initially) to me; even if I disagree with it being an atheist. 

 

I'm sure we can all agree, though, that quote trees are bad. So cut 'em down!



 

Here lies the dearly departed Nintendomination Thread.

WagnerPaiva said:
Aura7541 said:

 None of the major religions' gods exist because science and simple observations have disproven these gods' abilities that many religious zealots claim.

The Bible is written by no more than a bunch of amateur writers. So many inconsistencies and it's poorly written, too. Better off reading Shakespeare, Dickens, or Tolkien because their books are actually worth the time.

Your holier-than-thou attitude won't get you anywhere nor will it make your religion anymore correct because it isn't. In fact, the point of religion was to establish a sense of community among the people, not to shove made up stories up people's brains like you are. A true Christian should be bragging about how much community service he/she has done, not how blessed he/she is. Just absolutely disgraceful. I can't even consider you a Christian with that kind of attiude you've displayed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk

Too hateful, ain´t going to reply. God exists, He shows His grace in my life everyday. I have seen tons of miracles. When you deliver yourself to Him He will show Himself in your life in a very real and strong way, that is all that is. If you run away from Him, He will hide Himself as well. 

All the evidence that you can show comes from hateful evil inspired researches and lies. 

It is all faith in the end, yours is in the fact that there is nothing more than life itself. Mine is in God.

However, do not answer, I do not believe in internet preaching and you guys are too pride to talk in a civil way about religion.

We will talk in the video games threads man, no problem, but I will not answer in this one anymore, it kind hurts to read this kind of stuff because I am saved and everything, so He is in my life everyday, I see the signs all the time, so it is just sad to read blasphemies. My mistake to post here.

Anyways, see you around. Please do not reply.

By telling me to not reply, you're basically saying that you do not want to hear the truth that religion is merely a product of human imagination. You know that all this time and energy that you've spent on trying to promote an imaginary character could have been spent on something more useful. The point of religion isn't to worship an idea of an omnitpotent entity. Religion started to get people together so that they can live as a community. However, you apparently don't understand what religion is truly about and you are indeed, a Christian-In-Name-Only. I'm sorry, but that isn't hateful. That's realism.



Aura7541 said:

Anyways, see you around. Please do not reply.

By telling me to not reply, you're basically saying that you do not want to hear the truth that religion is merely a product of human imagination. You know that all this time and energy that you've spent on trying to promote an imaginary character could have been spent on something more useful. The point of religion isn't to worship an idea of an omnitpotent entity. Religion started to get people together so that they can live as a community. However, you apparently don't understand what religion is truly about and you are indeed, a Christian-In-Name-Only. I'm sorry, but that isn't hateful. That's realism.


Whatever makes you happy man.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

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WagnerPaiva said:
Aura7541 said:

Anyways, see you around. Please do not reply.

By telling me to not reply, you're basically saying that you do not want to hear the truth that religion is merely a product of human imagination. You know that all this time and energy that you've spent on trying to promote an imaginary character could have been spent on something more useful. The point of religion isn't to worship an idea of an omnitpotent entity. Religion started to get people together so that they can live as a community. However, you apparently don't understand what religion is truly about and you are indeed, a Christian-In-Name-Only. I'm sorry, but that isn't hateful. That's realism.


Whatever makes you happy man.

I'll be happy when Christians, Jews, Muslims, and other religion practitioners actually follow their religion rather than pretending. Buddhism is, so far for me personally, is the only religion that has been practiced the right way. Buddhist monks don't force their theology on other people. Heck, the Dalai Lama himself admits that Buddhism and religion, in general, aren't for everyone. However, he wants everyone to live peacefully with one another, something that everyone wants, too, whether they be religious or not.

EDIT: Very well said, Shadow1980.



Puppyroach said:
MTZehvor said:

Then by all means, propose this "much more probable" explanation.

To an extent this behavior is, but it's much different in humans than in any other species of animal. While animals do express sorrow, depression, and the likes, humans are the species that most prominently tie these feelings to their actions as opposed to what happens around them. For example, someone feels good for donating money to a charity. Someone feels bad for having sex with some random person they've never met. The actions that animals show emotion from are generally reactionary, whereas with humans it's a response to what they themselves did.

I'd also add, again, that consciousness seems odd not simply because it doesn't drive us to do things that would benefit us, but because it often drives us to do things that are against our best survival interests.

I seriously hope you don't mean that the burden of proof of one of the greatest scientific challenges is on me, because you claim a god did it? There was a time when we thought the sun rotated around the earth and by just looking at it, you could easily assume that. Does that mean a god was behind the sun revolving around the earth, just because we hadn't found out it was the other way around yet? Just because we don't know the explanation for something, doesn't give us the right to make the most outrageous claim without proof. So in conclusion, neither you or me has any theory that we can prove, so why is a god suddenly the most probable explanation?

 

Quote Tree Shortened - Conegamer

The burden of proof isn't on you, no, but you suggested the existence of some much more probable theory, so I'm looking forward to what exactly you have. You invited the burden of proof upon yourself with your proposal, in much the same way that a defense attorney claiming they have decisive evidence that proves their client innocent does not have the burden of proof, but still should present this supposed evidence all the same.

I'll respond to the argument of:

"What I am getting at is that people should keep god out of these discussions and only use god as part of your faith, nothing else."

 With: "Why should we keep God out of these conversations?" Why not consider the possibilities, and form an opinion based on the (admittedly limited) facts before us? Simply because our knowledge is limited in certain areas should not keep us from theorizing about what is out there.

As for proof, you're certainly right, I have none. That said, we have some being, action, or likewise that is beyond the laws of the universe, creating the universe from the outside with some astounding attention to detail, and some fairly difficult odds being beaten to wind up with intelligent life here (even if you do throw in the vast, vast number of planets in the green zones of their respective solar systems). That to me is more than enough to warrant the discussion of God.



Soriku said:
Nintentacle said:

Soriku said:

Right...


I believe in the current evidence that we have. Not a collection of stories.

The idea that some god created everything is a perfectly understandable concept. With issues.

Many atheists were in fact religious at some point. Maybe this god of your should stop playing games and reveal himself to everyone, just to be fair.

Well, if you want proof, I'll give the best I can:

Job 40:15-24 sounds like a descirption of a Dinosaur, which weren't discovered until the 19th century.

Job 28:35 says the air has weight, which wasn't discovered until the 17th century.

Genesis 17:12 says to circumcise on the 8th day of a boy's life, which has been proven to be the best day.

Genesis 15:5 says the stars are uncountable, which turned out to be true.

Isaiah 66:7–8 implies that Israel would be reborn in a day, which happened in 1948.


Job 40:15-24 -  This is vague and could refer to any number of big animals that feed on grass, like elephants or rhinos. Some dinosaurs were carnivores too but the passage doesn't mention that.

I can agree with this one, it might not be Dinosaurs.

Job 28:35 - Is this the correct passage? I can't find it.

It was the wrong one. I meant to post Job 28:25.

Genesis 17:12 - Could be a coincidence and/or based on their observations.

Possibly.

Genesis 15:5: Go outside and there are a lot of stars you can view. It doesn't necessarily mean they knew there were billions, trillions of stars. Just there are a lot of stars that they might as well be considered uncountable.

What I was focusing on is that people used to think you could be able to count all the stars just by looking outside.

Isaiah 66:7-8 - Well congrats on getting one thing right I guess. Now try to rationalize these: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies

On some of these, you could probably just say they haven't happened yet. As for the other ones, I answered a few (Although not perfectly):

Israelites will be unbeatable

The Israelistes are only undefeatable when they listen to God. It says when they don't, they loose against their enemies, and the land becomes unprosperous in terms of harvest.

Virgin birth

Mary wasn't married to Joseph when Jesus was born. The "marrige" was when the man and the woman had sex, which is when they were "joined together", which means that being a maiden meant that you were a virgin. So, the prophecy was still fulfilled, whether "virgin" was the correct translation or not.

The messiah will be born in Bethlehem

 It doesn't matter exactly what happened, Jesus was still born in Bethelehem.

The great disappointment

William Miller being wrong does not confirm whether the prophecy is correct or not.

Cyrus will conquer Babylon

Like the author said, Isaiah 45 never mentions Babylon, so you can't call it a Bible prophecy in the first place...



Aura7541 said:

realism.

Realism, you say?



Nintentacle said:

Aura7541 said:

realism.

Realism, you say?