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Forums - Politics Discussion - Where did the Big Bang Come from?

Nintentacle on 31 August 2014
C64 said:
Nintentacle said:

This is your fact:

 

And the conclusion I draw from that is that it is ridiculous.


Wrong. Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

You can make fun of the big bang and evolution or science in general, that's all up to you. 'Atheism is Religion Like Abstinence is a Sex Position'

By not believing in the existence of a deity/ies, you believe that everything was created out of thin air, by absolutely nothing.

By believing in the existence of a deity/ies, you believe that everything was created out of thin air, by a powerful being/s.



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akhmenhawk on 31 August 2014
Nintentacle said:

I say that nothing can't create everything, you say the idea that a being can snap and create everything out of thin air is ridicuous, I say that you believe that the Universe appeared out of thin air.

Not out of thin air, but by following the laws of quantum mechanics. Nothing transforms into something all the time. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states that a system can never have precisely zero energy and since energy and mass are equivalent, pairs of particles can form spontaneously as long as they annihilate one another very quickly.



Conegamer on 31 August 2014
mornelithe said:
Conegamer said:

I'm not getting involved, but you're missing his point. 

People who believe in God do so, and thus Evolution and The Big Bang (which, I'll be honest, I thought were pretty much unanimously accepted) are unusual concepts which are tough to believe.

Similarly people who deny God's exsistance see religion as unusual concepts which are tough to believe.

I'm not going to say which one is right, but the constant yo-yoing like this is (and as it will continue no doubt) will get us nowhere, because it's a clash of beliefs. 

They are.  The overall issue with the Big Bang is that to truly understand it competely, the amount of knowledge you need in Quantum Mechanics is steep.  Otherwise, people wouldn't be bewildered at the thought that something could come from nothing.  Though, people could simply read A Univers from Nothing, by Lawrence Krauss, which may help them understand some of it (hard read, though he does what he can to put it all in laymans terms).

You don't need to know how a car works to drive, though.

By that I mean; you don't need to understand at a quantum level the Big Bang to think "that's what happened". It's very much the same thing with religion, which is the parralel I was trying to draw.



 

Here lies the dearly departed Nintendomination Thread.

Nintentacle on 31 August 2014
akhmenhawk said:

Nintentacle said:

I say that nothing can't create everything, you say the idea that a being can snap and create everything out of thin air is ridicuous, I say that you believe that the Universe appeared out of thin air.

Not out of thin air, but by following the laws of quantum mechanics. Nothing transforms into something all the time. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states that a system can never have precisely zero energy and since energy and mass are equivalent, pairs of particles can form spontaneously as long as they annihilate one another very quickly.

Then nothing never transforms into something, because there is never nothing. They can't form spontaneously because that would mean there was a "time" (You know what I mean) when nothing existed.



C64 on 31 August 2014
Nintentacle said:

I say that nothing can't create everything(...)


Can you prove that?



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mornelithe on 31 August 2014
Conegamer said:

You don't need to know how a car works to drive, though.

By that I mean; you don't need to understand at a quantum level the Big Bang to think "that's what happened". It's very much the same thing with religion, which is the parralel I was trying to draw.

I know what you mean, I also know that phones work, computers work, cell phones work, planes fly, satellites orbit, etc... if science has it so wrong, absolutely none of that would ever have worked.

Well, it's not the 'Big Bang' per-se, it's how the big bang occurred when there was (as far as we know) nothing before it.  You can't use logic to wrap your head around Quantum Mechanics, because it's so seemingly illogical, but that's because we (humans) have never had any reason whatsoever to observe the world on a quantum/macro level, until very recently.

In 50 years, who knows, all of this stuff may be as second nature as simple mathemetics are now.



Nintentacle on 31 August 2014
C64 said:
Nintentacle said:
 

I say that nothing can't create everything(...)


Can you prove that?

If there is no Universe, can the Universe create itself?



C64 on 31 August 2014
Nintentacle said:
C64 said:
Nintentacle said:

This is your fact:

 

And the conclusion I draw from that is that it is ridiculous.


Wrong. Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

You can make fun of the big bang and evolution or science in general, that's all up to you. 'Atheism is Religion Like Abstinence is a Sex Position'

By not believing in the existence of a deity/ies, you believe that everything was created out of thin air, by absolutely nothing.

By believing in the existence of a deity/ies, you believe that everything was created out of thin air, by a powerful being/s.


Wrong again.  As an atheist I do not believe in the existence of deities. The end.

As a scientifically thinking person I am humble and honest enough to admit that I do now know yet just exactly how everything was created. Further research is needed.

Many religious people though are pretentious as they believe to know the only correct answer. They can't prove a thing and ignore well-established facts. They even make fun of things they don't even want to understand. That's what I call ridiculous.



C64 on 31 August 2014
Nintentacle said:
C64 said:
Nintentacle said:
 

I say that nothing can't create everything(...)


Can you prove that?

If there is no Universe, can the Universe create itself?

Counter questions can't distract me. So can you prove that?



Nintentacle on 31 August 2014
C64 said:

Nintentacle said:

By not believing in the existence of a deity/ies, you believe that everything was created out of thin air, by absolutely nothing.

By believing in the existence of a deity/ies, you believe that everything was created out of thin air, by a powerful being/s.


Wrong again.  As an atheist I do not believe in the existence of deities. The end.

As a scientifically thinking person I am humble and honest enough to admit that I do now know yet just exactly how everything was created. Further research is needed.

Many religious people though are pretentious as they believe to know the only correct answer. They can't prove a thing and ignore well-established facts. They even make fun of things they don't even want to understand. That's what I call ridiculous.

Then you can't say there is no God, because you don't know for sure how the Universe happened.