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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How the Wii U could make a comeback

KLXVER said:
McDonaldsGuy said:

If I were Nintendo, I would honestly just save screw it and release a new console in 2015 with Zelda as a launch title.


Yeah, that would make the people who bought a WiiU this holiday very happy...


Give them a rebate or some program kinda like what they did when they slashed the price of the 3DS... plus the Wii U isn't selling that much to many too many people angry.

The Wii U is one of the reasons Nintendo's profits are tumbling. 

Actually I think my initial ideas are great to get the Wii U back on track if Nintendo is truly serious. A Pokemon RPG would sell the Wii U like hotcakes, and Pokemon amiibos would be huge as well (super profitable). A killer FPS would help sales as well. Also go after an untapped gaming market (women) and sales will go up. It helped the 3DS tremendously. The Gamepad is PERFECT for DS-style games, which just amazes me Nintendo isn't doing stuff like that with the Wii U.

How else could Nintendo make a comeback? Their games will cause a spike in sales for a bit, but is it long term?



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McDonaldsGuy said:
KLXVER said:
McDonaldsGuy said:

If I were Nintendo, I would honestly just save screw it and release a new console in 2015 with Zelda as a launch title.


Yeah, that would make the people who bought a WiiU this holiday very happy...


Give them a rebate or some program kinda like what they did when they slashed the price of the 3DS... plus the Wii U isn't selling that much to many too many people angry.

The Wii U is one of the reasons Nintendo's profits are tumbling. 

Actually I think my initial ideas are great to get the Wii U back on track if Nintendo is truly serious. A Pokemon RPG would sell the Wii U like hotcakes, and Pokemon amiibos would be huge as well (super profitable). A killer FPS would help sales as well. Also go after an untapped gaming market (women) and sales will go up. It helped the 3DS tremendously. The Gamepad is PERFECT for DS-style games, which just amazes me Nintendo isn't doing stuff like that with the Wii U.

How else could Nintendo make a comeback? Their games will cause a spike in sales for a bit, but is it long term?


If they just abandon their console, then whos gonna trust them to support their next console? It would possibly be the worst thing they could do.



KLXVER said:


If they just abandon their console, then whos gonna trust them to support their next console? It would possibly be the worst thing they could do.


I don't think so, because the Wii U doesn't have enough hype anyway and people will understand. I mean can we trust Nintendo anyway after the Wii U failing to gain ground?

The reason I think they should make a new console is because the Wii U really has no direction. I don't understand what Nintendo is trying to do with it.... which is sad, cause I am a HUGE Nintendo fan. I have owned every major Nintendo console and handheld.

If Nintendo wants to continue to keep the Wii U as its main console it needs to have a strategy. And I think the Wii strategy of trying to appeal to different demographics could work. 



Um, if a turn around is actually getting to 20 million consoles sold then sure.



McDonaldsGuy said:It is a well known FACT the Dreamcast had extremely poor sales. The reason Sega was also losing a lot of money was because the hardware wasn't profitable - the reason this was is because they had to keep the costs low in order to try and compete with Nintendo and Sony. However, even when the Dreamcast was dirt cheap it was not selling units at all. 

Even your own article talks about the PS2 being a reason for the Dreamcast losing: "Before the end of 2000, however, Sega's Dreamcast found itself in trouble. Sony's original PlayStation grabbed a majority of console market share, and the PS2 was building substantial press for its October 26, 2000 North American launch. Even though the PS2 launched in spring in Japan with only six titles -- all of which were unimpressive -- Sony capitalized again and again on Sega's perceived weaknesses.

From trumpeting the PS2's Emotion Engine processor and partnering with Steven Spielberg in trade shows, to getting EA's support, to corralling 29 games for launch day, Sony, most importantly of all, outspent Sega in marketing dollars."

"In September of 2000, one year after the North America launch, Sega's American executives came to a realization. Despite initial great sales in North America, Sega lacked the marketing dollars to compete with Sony and Nintendo, and it was witnessing Sony's arrival even before it had arrived, with decreased sales going into the fall season. Additionally, Sega heard rumors that Microsoft, which had partnered with Sega to make its Windows CE platform work on Dreamcast, planned on entering the business."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1145936.stm

"Slow sales of Dreamcast in the Christmas season hurt the company's earnings.

Sega sold a total of 2.32m units of Dreamcast hardware in the April-December period, down 44% from its initial forecast.

Sony's popular Playstation has undermined Sega's sales."

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/17/consoles-that-wont-die-the-sega-dreamcast/

"The Dreamcast couldn’t compete with the power of the PlayStation brand, as Sony’s new machine — with its built-in DVD player – began a journey that would eventually see sales of 150 million consoles. In contrast, the Dreamcast managed to sell just over 8 million sales during its short lifetime."

http://www.cnet.com/news/sega-dreamcast-gamings-most-magnificent-failure-video/

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/techreviews/games/2001-01-23-dreamcast.htm

U.S. sales of Dreamcast, launched in the fall of 1999, totaled 4.5 million through December, running below the company's plan to reach 7.5 million units by March 31, according to The Gartner Group, a research company based in San Jose, Calif.

Many factors went into the Dreamcast's demise.... marketing budget of course, debt, poor management, low software sales, no money, and the PS2. Etc. etc. The Dreamcast sliced its price time and time again (which of course caused Sega to lose money) yet the Dreamcast STILL wasn't selling.

The Wii U is selling WORSE than the Dreamcast did. And it's not as profitable as it should be. The Dreamcast was actually a great machine that was ahead of its time yet outdated at the same time (focused on online gaming, but came with a 56K modem, had great 3D games but only one analog stick, had great graphics but couldn't compete with Xbox/GC/PS2, etc. etc.). 

The Wii U has a chance though to make a comeback, but Nintendo is going to have to make changes. One of those changes is to look at different demographics. Nintendo has admitted that they wanted to go after the hardcore gamer demographic with the Wii U. But the fact is hardcore gamers have rejected Nintendo pretty much. One of the ways Nintendo can get some of those gamers back is to get Retro Studios to make the kiler app we know they can. Also, to give gamers want they want: 3D open world Super Mario like 64 and Galaxy, a Zelda with OOT/TP style graphics, games out faster period, etc. etc.

If I were Nintendo, I would honestly just save screw it and release a new console in 2015 with Zelda as a launch title.


So, now you're throwing facts that do not support your claims, and then attempting to jumble them all up to conclude that the Wii U is worst than the Dreamcast. 

1) You've admitted that the PS2 was only one of several factors to the demise of the Dreamcast. This was the same point I've already made to you.

2) You quoted an article that basically said what I just said, which was that Sega was unable to market the Dreamcast properly later in its life due to financial troubles.

 

Look. Here are the points I'm making.

1) Dreamcast itself wasn't a failed console. Sega went bankrupt and that killed the Dreamcast. Sega could not financially support the Dreamcast, so it died. 


2) The PS2 wasn't what killed the Dreamcast. It was a determining factor in _Sega's_ demise, but it wasn't what killed the Dreamcast. Several things Sega did wrong caused the Dreamcast to die. The PS2 was, more or less, the straw that broke the camel's back.

That's it. Now, comparing the Wii U to the Dreamcast is a bit silly since Nintendo is in a much better financial situation than Sega. Nintendo also has a successful handheld and the Wii U is riding on the back of a successful generation. The situation is totally different. If anything, Sony could certainly use some advice since they're bleeding some serious cash right now.



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http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/30/5950887/nintendo-earnings-q1-2014

It looks like my worst fears are confirmed and Mario Kart isn't helping the Wii U much unfortunately. Nintendo's profits are down.

I never compared the Wii U's life to the Dreamcast (just the sales - which are true), but now it looks like the Wii U may face a similar fate to the Dreamcast.



QuintonMcLeod said:
McDonaldsGuy said:It is a well known FACT the Dreamcast had extremely poor sales. The reason Sega was also losing a lot of money was because the hardware wasn't profitable - the reason this was is because they had to keep the costs low in order to try and compete with Nintendo and Sony. However, even when the Dreamcast was dirt cheap it was not selling units at all. 

Even your own article talks about the PS2 being a reason for the Dreamcast losing: "Before the end of 2000, however, Sega's Dreamcast found itself in trouble. Sony's original PlayStation grabbed a majority of console market share, and the PS2 was building substantial press for its October 26, 2000 North American launch. Even though the PS2 launched in spring in Japan with only six titles -- all of which were unimpressive -- Sony capitalized again and again on Sega's perceived weaknesses.

From trumpeting the PS2's Emotion Engine processor and partnering with Steven Spielberg in trade shows, to getting EA's support, to corralling 29 games for launch day, Sony, most importantly of all, outspent Sega in marketing dollars."

"In September of 2000, one year after the North America launch, Sega's American executives came to a realization. Despite initial great sales in North America, Sega lacked the marketing dollars to compete with Sony and Nintendo, and it was witnessing Sony's arrival even before it had arrived, with decreased sales going into the fall season. Additionally, Sega heard rumors that Microsoft, which had partnered with Sega to make its Windows CE platform work on Dreamcast, planned on entering the business."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1145936.stm

"Slow sales of Dreamcast in the Christmas season hurt the company's earnings.

Sega sold a total of 2.32m units of Dreamcast hardware in the April-December period, down 44% from its initial forecast.

Sony's popular Playstation has undermined Sega's sales."

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/17/consoles-that-wont-die-the-sega-dreamcast/

"The Dreamcast couldn’t compete with the power of the PlayStation brand, as Sony’s new machine — with its built-in DVD player – began a journey that would eventually see sales of 150 million consoles. In contrast, the Dreamcast managed to sell just over 8 million sales during its short lifetime."

http://www.cnet.com/news/sega-dreamcast-gamings-most-magnificent-failure-video/

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/techreviews/games/2001-01-23-dreamcast.htm

U.S. sales of Dreamcast, launched in the fall of 1999, totaled 4.5 million through December, running below the company's plan to reach 7.5 million units by March 31, according to The Gartner Group, a research company based in San Jose, Calif.

Many factors went into the Dreamcast's demise.... marketing budget of course, debt, poor management, low software sales, no money, and the PS2. Etc. etc. The Dreamcast sliced its price time and time again (which of course caused Sega to lose money) yet the Dreamcast STILL wasn't selling.

The Wii U is selling WORSE than the Dreamcast did. And it's not as profitable as it should be. The Dreamcast was actually a great machine that was ahead of its time yet outdated at the same time (focused on online gaming, but came with a 56K modem, had great 3D games but only one analog stick, had great graphics but couldn't compete with Xbox/GC/PS2, etc. etc.). 

The Wii U has a chance though to make a comeback, but Nintendo is going to have to make changes. One of those changes is to look at different demographics. Nintendo has admitted that they wanted to go after the hardcore gamer demographic with the Wii U. But the fact is hardcore gamers have rejected Nintendo pretty much. One of the ways Nintendo can get some of those gamers back is to get Retro Studios to make the kiler app we know they can. Also, to give gamers want they want: 3D open world Super Mario like 64 and Galaxy, a Zelda with OOT/TP style graphics, games out faster period, etc. etc.

If I were Nintendo, I would honestly just save screw it and release a new console in 2015 with Zelda as a launch title.


So, now you're throwing facts that do not support your claims, and then attempting to jumble them all up to conclude that the Wii U is worst than the Dreamcast. 

1) You've admitted that the PS2 was only one of several factors to the demise of the Dreamcast. This was the same point I've already made to you.

2) You quoted an article that basically said what I just said, which was that Sega was unable to market the Dreamcast properly later in its life due to financial troubles.

 

Look. Here are the points I'm making.

1) Dreamcast itself wasn't a failed console. Sega went bankrupt and that killed the Dreamcast. Sega could not financially support the Dreamcast, so it died. 


2) The PS2 wasn't what killed the Dreamcast. It was a determining factor in _Sega's_ demise, but it wasn't what killed the Dreamcast. Several things Sega did wrong caused the Dreamcast to die. The PS2 was, more or less, the straw that broke the camel's back.

That's it. Now, comparing the Wii U to the Dreamcast is a bit silly since Nintendo is in a much better financial situation than Sega. Nintendo also has a successful handheld and the Wii U is riding on the back of a successful generation. The situation is totally different. If anything, Sony could certainly use some advice since they're bleeding some serious cash right now.

You said the Dreamcast sold well and if Sega had a budget it would have survived. I merely pointed out that wasn't true and that even if Sega had a budget, the Dreamcast would still be sitting on store shelves. At the most, it would have survived til maybe 2002.

The Dreamcast had great sales AT FIRST.... but the PS2 made sure that didn't last long and by mid-2000 the Dreamcast was dead.



McDonaldsGuy said:
QuintonMcLeod said:
McDonaldsGuy said:It is a well known FACT the Dreamcast had extremely poor sales. The reason Sega was also losing a lot of money was because the hardware wasn't profitable - the reason this was is because they had to keep the costs low in order to try and compete with Nintendo and Sony. However, even when the Dreamcast was dirt cheap it was not selling units at all. 

Even your own article talks about the PS2 being a reason for the Dreamcast losing: "Before the end of 2000, however, Sega's Dreamcast found itself in trouble. Sony's original PlayStation grabbed a majority of console market share, and the PS2 was building substantial press for its October 26, 2000 North American launch. Even though the PS2 launched in spring in Japan with only six titles -- all of which were unimpressive -- Sony capitalized again and again on Sega's perceived weaknesses.

From trumpeting the PS2's Emotion Engine processor and partnering with Steven Spielberg in trade shows, to getting EA's support, to corralling 29 games for launch day, Sony, most importantly of all, outspent Sega in marketing dollars."

"In September of 2000, one year after the North America launch, Sega's American executives came to a realization. Despite initial great sales in North America, Sega lacked the marketing dollars to compete with Sony and Nintendo, and it was witnessing Sony's arrival even before it had arrived, with decreased sales going into the fall season. Additionally, Sega heard rumors that Microsoft, which had partnered with Sega to make its Windows CE platform work on Dreamcast, planned on entering the business."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1145936.stm

"Slow sales of Dreamcast in the Christmas season hurt the company's earnings.

Sega sold a total of 2.32m units of Dreamcast hardware in the April-December period, down 44% from its initial forecast.

Sony's popular Playstation has undermined Sega's sales."

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/17/consoles-that-wont-die-the-sega-dreamcast/

"The Dreamcast couldn’t compete with the power of the PlayStation brand, as Sony’s new machine — with its built-in DVD player – began a journey that would eventually see sales of 150 million consoles. In contrast, the Dreamcast managed to sell just over 8 million sales during its short lifetime."

http://www.cnet.com/news/sega-dreamcast-gamings-most-magnificent-failure-video/

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/techreviews/games/2001-01-23-dreamcast.htm

U.S. sales of Dreamcast, launched in the fall of 1999, totaled 4.5 million through December, running below the company's plan to reach 7.5 million units by March 31, according to The Gartner Group, a research company based in San Jose, Calif.

Many factors went into the Dreamcast's demise.... marketing budget of course, debt, poor management, low software sales, no money, and the PS2. Etc. etc. The Dreamcast sliced its price time and time again (which of course caused Sega to lose money) yet the Dreamcast STILL wasn't selling.

The Wii U is selling WORSE than the Dreamcast did. And it's not as profitable as it should be. The Dreamcast was actually a great machine that was ahead of its time yet outdated at the same time (focused on online gaming, but came with a 56K modem, had great 3D games but only one analog stick, had great graphics but couldn't compete with Xbox/GC/PS2, etc. etc.). 

The Wii U has a chance though to make a comeback, but Nintendo is going to have to make changes. One of those changes is to look at different demographics. Nintendo has admitted that they wanted to go after the hardcore gamer demographic with the Wii U. But the fact is hardcore gamers have rejected Nintendo pretty much. One of the ways Nintendo can get some of those gamers back is to get Retro Studios to make the kiler app we know they can. Also, to give gamers want they want: 3D open world Super Mario like 64 and Galaxy, a Zelda with OOT/TP style graphics, games out faster period, etc. etc.

If I were Nintendo, I would honestly just save screw it and release a new console in 2015 with Zelda as a launch title.


So, now you're throwing facts that do not support your claims, and then attempting to jumble them all up to conclude that the Wii U is worst than the Dreamcast. 

1) You've admitted that the PS2 was only one of several factors to the demise of the Dreamcast. This was the same point I've already made to you.

2) You quoted an article that basically said what I just said, which was that Sega was unable to market the Dreamcast properly later in its life due to financial troubles.

 

Look. Here are the points I'm making.

1) Dreamcast itself wasn't a failed console. Sega went bankrupt and that killed the Dreamcast. Sega could not financially support the Dreamcast, so it died. 


2) The PS2 wasn't what killed the Dreamcast. It was a determining factor in _Sega's_ demise, but it wasn't what killed the Dreamcast. Several things Sega did wrong caused the Dreamcast to die. The PS2 was, more or less, the straw that broke the camel's back.

That's it. Now, comparing the Wii U to the Dreamcast is a bit silly since Nintendo is in a much better financial situation than Sega. Nintendo also has a successful handheld and the Wii U is riding on the back of a successful generation. The situation is totally different. If anything, Sony could certainly use some advice since they're bleeding some serious cash right now.

You said the Dreamcast sold well and if Sega had a budget it would have survived. I merely pointed out that wasn't true and that even if Sega had a budget, the Dreamcast would still be sitting on store shelves. At the most, it would have survived til maybe 2002.

The Dreamcast had great sales AT FIRST.... but the PS2 made sure that didn't last long and by mid-2000 the Dreamcast was dead.

I didn't say the Dreamcast sold well.  I simply said it wasn't a failed console. The Dreamcast sold well enough during its first year, but after that, Sega was unable to promote its system and its games. Because of that, many of the Dreamcast's releases flew under the radar. If Sega had money, those games would've been properly marketed, and their games would've sold. It's as simple as thast.



QuintonMcLeod said:

I didn't say the Dreamcast sold well.  I simply said it wasn't a failed console. The Dreamcast sold well enough during its first year, but after that, Sega was unable to promote its system and its games. Because of that, many of the Dreamcast's releases flew under the radar. If Sega had money, those games would've been properly marketed, and their games would've sold. It's as simple as thast.

Marketing budget =/= sales.

The Dreamcast was practically being given away for FREE (literally) at times and they still couldn't give them away. It's simply because no one cared for the Dreamcast. I know this because I was there during that time. The Dreamcast was by far my favorite console during its prime, but the fact is no one cared for it. The Dreamcast sold well until Sony announced the PS2... but even before the PS2 was announced the Dreamcast was feeling heat because of the rumors surrounding the PS2. I still remember a January 2000 issue of EGM I think it was talking about if we should get a Dreamcast with the rumors about the PS2. Sony didn't even need to have a marketing budget because the media was doing it for them.

The Dreamcast was doomed no matter what Sega did short of getting Halo and GTAIII as exclusive.

Here's a better more detailed video on the DC's demise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awg3UZs9J_E

"People were like 'I'd rather have NOTHING for Christmas than a Dreamcast!'"

"Even without the PS2 they couldn't sell a Dreamcast at Christmas."

Think of it this way: During Christmas 2000 and early 2001, the PS2 suffered its famous shortages (something the Wii would later suffer), so Sega responded by dropping the Dreamcast's price to $99.

And people STILL preferred just to wait to get a PS2.

Once the PS2 was launched, the Dreamcast was going to die even if Sega had a ton of marketing muscle. Nothing short of getting Halo or GTAIII could save it. The Xbox would have also just died if it weren't for Halo.

It pains me to discuss this too because the Dreamcast is one of my favorite systems ever, and I today I wish Sega was still in the console race. Sega was incredible, but they did burn too many bridges.

RIP Dreamcast, we hardly knew ye.