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QuintonMcLeod said:
McDonaldsGuy said:It is a well known FACT the Dreamcast had extremely poor sales. The reason Sega was also losing a lot of money was because the hardware wasn't profitable - the reason this was is because they had to keep the costs low in order to try and compete with Nintendo and Sony. However, even when the Dreamcast was dirt cheap it was not selling units at all. 

Even your own article talks about the PS2 being a reason for the Dreamcast losing: "Before the end of 2000, however, Sega's Dreamcast found itself in trouble. Sony's original PlayStation grabbed a majority of console market share, and the PS2 was building substantial press for its October 26, 2000 North American launch. Even though the PS2 launched in spring in Japan with only six titles -- all of which were unimpressive -- Sony capitalized again and again on Sega's perceived weaknesses.

From trumpeting the PS2's Emotion Engine processor and partnering with Steven Spielberg in trade shows, to getting EA's support, to corralling 29 games for launch day, Sony, most importantly of all, outspent Sega in marketing dollars."

"In September of 2000, one year after the North America launch, Sega's American executives came to a realization. Despite initial great sales in North America, Sega lacked the marketing dollars to compete with Sony and Nintendo, and it was witnessing Sony's arrival even before it had arrived, with decreased sales going into the fall season. Additionally, Sega heard rumors that Microsoft, which had partnered with Sega to make its Windows CE platform work on Dreamcast, planned on entering the business."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1145936.stm

"Slow sales of Dreamcast in the Christmas season hurt the company's earnings.

Sega sold a total of 2.32m units of Dreamcast hardware in the April-December period, down 44% from its initial forecast.

Sony's popular Playstation has undermined Sega's sales."

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/17/consoles-that-wont-die-the-sega-dreamcast/

"The Dreamcast couldn’t compete with the power of the PlayStation brand, as Sony’s new machine — with its built-in DVD player – began a journey that would eventually see sales of 150 million consoles. In contrast, the Dreamcast managed to sell just over 8 million sales during its short lifetime."

http://www.cnet.com/news/sega-dreamcast-gamings-most-magnificent-failure-video/

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/techreviews/games/2001-01-23-dreamcast.htm

U.S. sales of Dreamcast, launched in the fall of 1999, totaled 4.5 million through December, running below the company's plan to reach 7.5 million units by March 31, according to The Gartner Group, a research company based in San Jose, Calif.

Many factors went into the Dreamcast's demise.... marketing budget of course, debt, poor management, low software sales, no money, and the PS2. Etc. etc. The Dreamcast sliced its price time and time again (which of course caused Sega to lose money) yet the Dreamcast STILL wasn't selling.

The Wii U is selling WORSE than the Dreamcast did. And it's not as profitable as it should be. The Dreamcast was actually a great machine that was ahead of its time yet outdated at the same time (focused on online gaming, but came with a 56K modem, had great 3D games but only one analog stick, had great graphics but couldn't compete with Xbox/GC/PS2, etc. etc.). 

The Wii U has a chance though to make a comeback, but Nintendo is going to have to make changes. One of those changes is to look at different demographics. Nintendo has admitted that they wanted to go after the hardcore gamer demographic with the Wii U. But the fact is hardcore gamers have rejected Nintendo pretty much. One of the ways Nintendo can get some of those gamers back is to get Retro Studios to make the kiler app we know they can. Also, to give gamers want they want: 3D open world Super Mario like 64 and Galaxy, a Zelda with OOT/TP style graphics, games out faster period, etc. etc.

If I were Nintendo, I would honestly just save screw it and release a new console in 2015 with Zelda as a launch title.


So, now you're throwing facts that do not support your claims, and then attempting to jumble them all up to conclude that the Wii U is worst than the Dreamcast. 

1) You've admitted that the PS2 was only one of several factors to the demise of the Dreamcast. This was the same point I've already made to you.

2) You quoted an article that basically said what I just said, which was that Sega was unable to market the Dreamcast properly later in its life due to financial troubles.

 

Look. Here are the points I'm making.

1) Dreamcast itself wasn't a failed console. Sega went bankrupt and that killed the Dreamcast. Sega could not financially support the Dreamcast, so it died. 


2) The PS2 wasn't what killed the Dreamcast. It was a determining factor in _Sega's_ demise, but it wasn't what killed the Dreamcast. Several things Sega did wrong caused the Dreamcast to die. The PS2 was, more or less, the straw that broke the camel's back.

That's it. Now, comparing the Wii U to the Dreamcast is a bit silly since Nintendo is in a much better financial situation than Sega. Nintendo also has a successful handheld and the Wii U is riding on the back of a successful generation. The situation is totally different. If anything, Sony could certainly use some advice since they're bleeding some serious cash right now.

You said the Dreamcast sold well and if Sega had a budget it would have survived. I merely pointed out that wasn't true and that even if Sega had a budget, the Dreamcast would still be sitting on store shelves. At the most, it would have survived til maybe 2002.

The Dreamcast had great sales AT FIRST.... but the PS2 made sure that didn't last long and by mid-2000 the Dreamcast was dead.