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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - A New Content Model for Nintendo

green_sky said:
OP why do you always want your "interesting" ideas for Nintendo, one of the most traditional companies. There are others out there that are happy to do this and brag about it even when they seem silly doing it.

Evolve is good example of this. Full price game with tons of dlc to follow and not a shred of self awareness of why it seems silly. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=186673&page=1


I think Nintendo has the most room to grow and they have their interesting new architecture that they're introducing in a couple of years with their next platforms. This is also a way, it seems to me, for Nintendo to survive and even thrive with the way that they do business. Given that third parties do not seem to be coming back to support Nintendo consoles, Nintendo needs to come up with more ways to keep providing lots of content for their platforms if they want to continue in the consoles business.



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RolStoppable said:
phaedruss said:

No actually they are a content, or software developer, provider first and foremost. They make their hardware yes, but they need the software to support it. Who said anything about incomplete games?

Adding more content to existing games does not miss the point at all, what is wrong with you?

The chances for tacked-on content to move hardware hover around 0%. Nobody is going to rush out to buy a console because Zelda got a new bonus dungeon. Using a real world example, nobody has become more interested in Pikmin 3 because Nintendo added more missions (or more interested in the Wii U itself because of that).

If Nintendo were a software developer first and foremost, then they would be a third party. But you are right that Nintendo needs software to support their hardware; that's why they have to make more games, not waste their time on milking existing games with paid DLC. Or in other words, any new game can attract a new audience for the hardware while additional content for already released games won't do that.

I never said anything about selling hardware, but I think it potentially could actually. A console with a steady stream of quality Nintendo console with new games and old games being constantly supported would be very attractive imo. It might be a somewhat slower buildup, although if they could launch the console with a few of their major franchises at the same time and continue to support them while bringing out new games that could be a big system seller in and of itself.

As far as your example, I think Pikmin 3's DLC is pretty half-assed. I think that a more substantial expansion to the single-player campaign plus extra missions and other things on top of that would make more people interested in it, especially people that already own the console. What are the sales of Pikmin 3? Less than 1 million? There's still 5 million people who already own wii u's that haven't bought pikmin 3? I think that over time it would a lot of value to each of their titles that even among people who already own the consoles you could increase sales quite a bit for every title.



Have you been messing with my mind? Because I've been having that same idea for quite some time now. :p

It all clicked when Mr. Iwata mentioned on an investors meeting that he was trying to redefine the concept of a platform. It doesn't necessarily need to be the hardware itself, but rather a source of entertainment content. Let me explain:

Take Art Academy for example. Is it wise to fracture you software across 4 different consoles, all with different content, lessons, tools, backgrounds, templates, etc.? Of course not. Software like these should be a "platform" in on itself and have standardized tools, lessons, templates, etc. across all consoles. And when you do have a solid base, start selling expansion packs (aka DLC nowadays) such as Pokemon Art Academy. The potential is there for Mario, Zelda, and every other Nintendo franchise. The downfall is that they have no base to build upon, so development costs are over the top.

Nintendo has been trying to do this with Wii Fit, but so far has failed miserably with its most recent installment. This kind of software wasn't made for yearly releases like Plus and U. They should have stick with the base game and build upon it through expansions instead of charging full price every time they want sell another Wii Fit cash-grab. The Fit Meter is another example of pure wasted potential. Wii Fit on the go with Nintendo 3DS could perfectly be a great substitute for the Fit Meter for those who already own the console, and by doing that Nintendo would further enrich the Nintendo ecosystem.

And like you said, Mario Kart 7 and 8 were understandably resource vampires but with tons of wasted potential. Why not expand on the base game with new characters (real ones, not Pink Gold Peach) and a full back catalog of retro stages? There are 9 million MK7 owners and over 2 million MK8 onwers out there, so there's tons of potential to monetize here.



Arkhandar said:
Have you been messing with my mind? Because I've been having that same idea for quite some time now. :p

It all clicked when Mr. Iwata mentioned on an investor's meeting that he was trying to redefine the concept of a platform. It doesn't necessarily need to be the hardware itself, but rather a source of entertainment content. Let me explain:

Take Art Academy for example. Is it wise for fracture you software across 4 different consoles, all with different content, lessons, backgrounds, templates, etc.? Of course not. Software like this should be a platform in on itself and have standardized tools, lessons, templates, etc. across all consoles. And when you do have a solid base, start selling expansion packs (aka DLC nowadays) such as Pokemon Art Academy. The potential is there for Mario, Zelda, and every other Nintendo franchise. The downfall is that they have no base to build upon.

Nintendo has been trying to do this with Wii Fit, but so far has failed miserably with the recent installment. This kind of software wasn't made for yearly releases like Plus and U. They should have stick with the base game and build upon it through expansion instead of charging full price. The Fit Meter is another wasted potential. Wii Fit on the go with Nintendo 3DS could perfectly be a great substitute for the Fit Meter and further enrich the Nintendo ecosystem.

And like you said, Mario Kart 7 and 8 were understandably pure resource vampires but with tons of wasted potential. Why not expand on the base game with new characters (real ones, not Pink Gold Peach) and a full back catalog of retro stages?

Tons of potential to monetize.


Yes exactly. There is a ton of room to monetize while providing a big value to your customers at the same time. I think Nintendo could really "innovate" in this area. They would have to be careful about how they do it and be willing to adjust their prices if the community seems to think that a particular add-on is too expensive or something, but they could really bring a huge amount of value for all of their titles.



Expansions to Zelda? Are you mad or just plain insane in the membrane?

DLC for Mario Kart is already happening

Besides, I do not want my games cut up so bad like Bethesda cuts content from Elder Scrolls games to sell to you later at ridiculous prices. Don't even get me started on Battlefield and CoD....



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amak11 said:
Expansions to Zelda? Are you mad or just plain insane in the membrane?

DLC for Mario Kart is already happening

Besides, I do not want my games cut up so bad like Bethesda cuts content from Elder Scrolls games to sell to you later at ridiculous prices. Don't even get me started on Battlefield and CoD....


Actually Bethesda does not do that. Bethesda titles have some of the most content of any game out there, the DLC is more content that they start after the game is already put out. If you expect them to put every little piece of content that they can think of into the base game then you would never see an Elder Scrolls game release.

Yes DLC for Mario Kart is happening, but how long will it last? How much will they add to it over time? The DLC you're talking about is that Mercedes Benz thing right? Or is there more?

CoD and Battlefield are good examples of companies doing it wrong IMO. Map packs should be free while larger DLC would be what you would charge for.



RolStoppable said:
phaedruss said:

I never said anything about selling hardware, but I think it potentially could actually. A console with a steady stream of quality Nintendo console with new games and old games being constantly supported would be very attractive imo. It might be a somewhat slower buildup, although if they could launch the console with a few of their major franchises at the same time and continue to support them while bringing out new games that could be a big system seller in and of itself.

Just before you posted the above, you posted this:

I think Nintendo has the most room to grow and they have their interesting new architecture that they're introducing in a couple of years with their next platforms. This is also a way, it seems to me, for Nintendo to survive and even thrive with the way that they do business. Given that third parties do not seem to be coming back to support Nintendo consoles, Nintendo needs to come up with more ways to keep providing lots of content for their platforms if they want to continue in the consoles business.

So you are saying that this thread is about how Nintendo can continue in the console business which is about selling hardware.

Now here is Nintendo's problem: Not enough game releases which results in software droughts.
Here is your suggestion: Take workforce away from new games in order to make additional content.
The result: Fewer game releases, therefore more/longer software droughts.

Why would you want to reduce the number of game releases?

Yes this thread is about that. This wouldn't reduce the number of game releases either. It would increase them while also increasing the amount of overall content they release as well. Please read everything that I've said.



phaedruss said:


Actually Bethesda does not do that. Bethesda titles have some of the most content of any game out there, the DLC is more content that they start after the game is already put out. If you expect them to put every little piece of content that they can think of into the base game then you would never see an Elder Scrolls game release.


Bethesda does that, don't defend their buggy hell hole of a mess. I want a strong base game that keeps me coming back to it (Which Skyrim has no solid base, litterally. I fell through the game when I started it). What you are suggesting is "A whole new world" approach which is just stupid for something like Zelda.  It's almost like the people who moan and complain and ask for co-op in console Zelda titles. That's fine on pen and paper, but when the average Zelda player starts up the game they don't want to deal with paying for a new dungeon, or another costume or a sword or even a new stead, or even having another person there throwing bombs at them. You have to think really objectively with Nintendo IPs, you can't apply all ideas to them. Any minor change at this point has a HUGE effect on the majority of the gameplay. Cranky practically breaks Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze if you can use him right. 

I've always had the idea of a modular Mario game in the style of Super Mario 3. People create new areas and levels, share them on a massive globe. Have many art styles (NSMBU, 8-bit, Paper, SNES, Yoshi, SMW, etc) for the game. Take that play create share idea that Sony totes about. People play through a base game, but the game doesn't end there. You can go on and beat "Sally's World" or "Mega Death Moutain Trials" or "Super Castle Adventure Time".

 

Anyways, I'm agains't changing anything in the main games heavily. Either make a new side game or don't bother. We wouldn't have gotten Majoras Mask because this same outside thinking (then again It would have been a 64DD title). 



amak11 said:
phaedruss said:


Actually Bethesda does not do that. Bethesda titles have some of the most content of any game out there, the DLC is more content that they start after the game is already put out. If you expect them to put every little piece of content that they can think of into the base game then you would never see an Elder Scrolls game release.


Bethesda does that, don't defend their buggy hell hole of a mess. I want a strong base game that keeps me coming back to it (Which Skyrim has no solid base, litterally. I fell through the game when I started it). What you are suggesting is "A whole new world" approach which is just stupid for something like Zelda.  It's almost like the people who moan and complain and ask for co-op in console Zelda titles. That's fine on pen and paper, but when the average Zelda player starts up the game they don't want to deal with paying for a new dungeon, or another costume or a sword or even a new stead, or even having another person there throwing bombs at them. You have to think really objectively with Nintendo IPs, you can't apply all ideas to them. Any minor change at this point has a HUGE effect on the majority of the gameplay. Cranky practically breaks Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze if you can use him right. 

I've always had the idea of a modular Mario game in the style of Super Mario 3. People create new areas and levels, share them on a massive globe. Have many art styles (NSMBU, 8-bit, Paper, SNES, Yoshi, SMW, etc) for the game. Take that play create share idea that Sony totes about. People play through a base game, but the game doesn't end there. You can go on and beat "Sally's World" or "Mega Death Moutain Trials" or "Super Castle Adventure Time".

 

Anyways, I'm agains't changing anything in the main games heavily. Either make a new side game or don't bother. We wouldn't have gotten Majoras Mask because this same outside thinking (then again It would have been a 64DD title). 


Bugginess is a whole different thing from cutting out content on purpose to sell as DLC. Nintendo games would be buggier too if they were as complex as Bethesda open world RPGs. All of the other stuff you're talking about is just balance and gameplay issues that can easily be fixed, irrelevant to this conversation.

Majora's Mask is actually a really good example. That was something reusing assets from OoT and was really much easier to produce than an all new Zelda game. That could've easily been an expansion if the infrastructure were there.

 

On top of that Elder Scrolls games are some of the longest lived games out there due to the modding community. Take that and apply it to Nintendo and you could have some really great content and long lived games.



RolStoppable said:
phaedruss said:

Yes this thread is about that. This wouldn't reduce the number of game releases either. It would increase them while also increasing the amount of overall content they release as well. Please read everything that I've said.

Let's see. For argument's sake, Nintendo has 100 developers that are divided into four teams of 25 people. Without DLC, two development cycles will result in eight games of the expected quality standards.

With DLC, we first have four completed games from one development cycle. Now six people of each team will work on DLC for the released games, leaving 76 people to work on new games. 76/25=3, so three more games are made in the second development cycle, bringing the total to seven. That's one game less.

Do you understand? The number of game releases won't magically increase when smaller teams have to work on DLC. The opposite is the case. And since Nintendo has more than four development teams, the decrease in the number of released games will be greater than in the above example.

Ok so with DLC you take some people off of each team that is correct. But who says you only get 3 more games out of the remaining people? Not only that but all games will be on both platforms in the future so you can combine the handheld output with the current console output as well. Not to mention the added value to existing games and you get a lot more content and games all around.

I was thinking more of, say 100 people work on a game and then 20 of them break off to work on DLC for that game and the rest work on something else. 80 people are still perfectly capable of making a game, they might need to be more efficient but with a good base engine and efficiency they should be able to make another game in about the same amount of time. By the time they get to a team too small to produce games quickly enough you'd be on a new game cycle.