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Forums - Gaming - How microsoft plan to stealthily bring back Always Online

Dr.Henry_Killinger on 09 July 2014
fatslob-:O said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

I'm not paranoid, I just recognize that MS is eager to jump on the digital train and they've already jumped the gun once. Its reasonable to expect that they will do it again when the time is right and nobody notices. Their is nothing stupid about it, I mean look at how well RROD and Live, well maybe mandatory kinect is a bit silly. 

Why would I give them credit when they've had paid online from the inception? I'm supposed to believe they are gonna support offline without a monetary incentive because of the goodness of their hearts? Nahhh I don't buy it, I'm a bit of a skeptical.

You ARE being paranoid ... BTW it's "There", not "Their" and why the hell are you using the RROD and live in your argument ? 

Sony also has online subscription too if you hadn't noticed even if they only did it for 2 generations. 

The question is why wouldn't you give them the benefit of doubt despite all of their changes they've made ? 

Paranoia is irrational fear, its not irrational to expect MS to pursue an all digital future.

RROD and Live are evident that MS will do something that limits their fanbase if it means that the gains will keep it from being too fiscally destructive. They only reverse their policies because of the serious backlash, when you tie on launch and win in December, and now we're looking at 2:1 worldwide,  how the combined effects of what held back the One were destructive become more then obvious.

Sony's online subscription has only been mandatory for Online play for this gen, last gen it was an auxillary premium service, (cloud saves, discounts , and free games), a subscription in name, but notice I said paid online not a subscription.

3/3 Generations vs 1/4 Generations

Even then I would fully expect Sony to do the same things eventually, but since they didn't on launch, i would expect MS, who did, to do it sooner.

You don't get credit for fixing mistakes you've made in the past, benifit of the doubt is earned by not making them in the first place.

That's just blind optimism

At least with this generation, its a matter of Honor Roll vs Best Improvement.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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Dr.Henry_Killinger on 09 July 2014
gergroy said:
DogRemag said:
eva01beserk said:
Can we please leave PS NOW out of this. It is no way the same. PS NOW is optional, you can still buy and play your games in stores and offline.

But anyways this thread is becoming so stupid. No matter how many times things get explained, repeatedly, the MS loyalist will never accept it and spin things off to try and accuse sony of doing the same or worst. We are just going round and round repeating the same argumets.


That's the funny thing. I and plenty of Sony fans will never support a DRM console or digital only. I personally would never buy that type of product from anyone. If that does become the future then I am done with console gaming. I would only play on Steam then and I would have to buy a WiiU buy default if Sony had DRM.That is the day that I stop playing console period.

So... DRM through steam is perfectly fine, but on a console it is a deal breaker?  Ok then...

Please understand

There are many reasons why DRM is worse on PC, but steams DRM is much better that what MS was planning, because not all DRM is created equal.

But we don't even need to talk about that when you consider that unlike Console, PC has no "substanstial" physical and used games market, not only is it by necessity, its not eliminating a major part of the industry like Console DRM was threating todo.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

greenmedic88 on 09 July 2014
Raziel123 said:
greenmedic88 said:
The short of it for MS is that "Always Online" still won't be a requirement.

At worst, games on the XBO that utilize cloud processing for enhanced physics or visuals simply won't have the enhancements when played offline.

Think of it more as an incentive to stay online. It's in MS' best interests to do whatever they can to convince consumers/XBO owners to do so and there is nothing nefarious about this.

If it requires a paid XBL Gold subscription... I can see how more of the typical gamer rage might be more warranted, but again, cloud processing is currently being touted (still unproven in consumer homes) as a means to enhance games; not take them from unplayable to functional.

It takes selective perspective to see the same games being played without said enhancements as being "gimped" or locked or nerfed or whatever phrase one chooses to use.


That's not necessarily true. There are several things to think of. First, if you play a cloudless version, due to being offline, you gotta get something else, correct? That means there are two graphical settings, and this can for any of the visual uses of the cloud. First little problem, developers have to program the same thing twice, removing what so many console developers love about consoles; unique specs. Then, even if devs easily and gladly adopt this, what happens to the cloudless version exactly? What if it's completely half-arsed and doesn't take advantage of the hardware you paid 500 dollars for, because you are not connected to the Internet (or are playing the game many years later and its server support might have been pulled) and, as such, being treated as a second-tier customer? Why bother, if, say, MS comes out and says something like "70% of xb1 owners are connected to the internet"? Encouraging the use of cloud and indirectly making developers less concerned with the cloudless version. So either they separate cloud and DRM, but risk having less developer support and/or treating offline customer as second-tier, or they just go with the DRM. And the second option seems more likely, not because of the cloud talk, the increase in XBL subscriptions (this is a given! the more reasons given to the player to be always online, the more likely he is to subscribe, even if he's not much of an online gamer) but the games-as-a-service mention, along with other words used.. It all seems to imply an intent to turn every (and that's the issue here) game into something similar of what you see in certain PC games; you open a launcher, it connects to the servers to check for updates, it lets you log in if the servers are up, it doesn't let you if you they are down.. The difference is that those are online games and "DRM" is a given, by nature. That's what games as a service is, anyway. And, as any service, it is closed at some point; meaning you won't be able to play it anymore. I don't have an issue with playing games that require Internet..otherwise i wouldn't play online games. I do have an issue with having a SP game be affected in some way or another by the lack of a connection (other than meaningless stuff like leaderboards, whatever). Specially if I'm buying the game...at full price..to play it on a 400-500 dollar machine I bought..which isn't even being fully utilized to render the game..

After the first failed attempt, i think MS will use promises of "narrowing the power gap" to facilitate the transition and avoid the criticism they caught earlier. At least from their fanbase.. And it just might work, considering the overall bitter feeling towards multiplatform performance.

Break up your posts into paragraphs for readability in the future. 

The gist of what you're saying is consumer thinks "I bought a $400 Xbox and I want the best visuals/experience/whatever for it" presumably with the knowledge that the PS4 is already a better box that provides better visuals. It's already public domain knowledge, so no point in beating that dead horse any further. It's fairly safe to say that pixel and frame counters aren't buying a $500 XBO for Kinect.

But... consumer is going to pay more for XBL Gold anyway unless cloud services including physics/visual enahancements are running for free off MS network GPUs/servers, which seems doubtful. And if they're paying for XBL Gold, they're going to be online anyway; it's what they're paying for.

If not, they just want a $400 console to play Halo 5 offline or maybe Crackdown, since that is being pumped as a reason for cloud assisted processing and they forgo the "enhancements" the extra subscription would give them. 

If think if that bothered this somewhat casual consumer, and I don't mean casual as in web browser/smartphone game playing consumer, they would probably skip the XBO altogether or buy a PS4 unless they really wanted to play that Halo 5 campaign. 

The key word here is "requirement," which I probably should have started with. 

It is not a requirement any more than Kinect or a $60 XBL Gold subscription is. You get more for that, but the choice to skip them remains. 



Lyrikalstylez on 09 July 2014
Trunkin said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
Currently I have no internet, fuck this drm bullcrap

If sony and Microsoft both do this in the future than hello wii u!

So what are you using to post here? 4g? If so, you must miss out on a lot of digital only games.


Yes, which is why I don't want this drm shit

might get internet later but seems irrelevant to me as of now



Trunkin on 09 July 2014
Lyrikalstylez said:
Trunkin said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
Currently I have no internet, fuck this drm bullcrap

If sony and Microsoft both do this in the future than hello wii u!

So what are you using to post here? 4g? If so, you must miss out on a lot of digital only games.


Yes, which is why I don't want this drm shit

might get internet later but seems irrelevant to me as of now

But... but... there are so many things online that require more that whatever paltry data cap your service provider gives you! I dont think I could live without internet. Especially as a pc gamer.



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greenmedic88 on 10 July 2014
Trunkin said:

But... but... there are so many things online that require more that whatever paltry data cap your service provider gives you! I dont think I could live without internet. Especially as a pc gamer.

Joke post I know, but still had me thinking about PC gaming offline since PC gaming is synonymous with Steam for me. 

Even though I still have quite a few installer disc/retail PC games, the idea of buying a copy of a game to install on a PC just seems odd whereas it still feels like the norm on a console, even with all the digital games I've bought over the 7th gen to current. 



DogRemag on 10 July 2014
gergroy said:
DogRemag said:
eva01beserk said:
Can we please leave PS NOW out of this. It is no way the same. PS NOW is optional, you can still buy and play your games in stores and offline.

But anyways this thread is becoming so stupid. No matter how many times things get explained, repeatedly, the MS loyalist will never accept it and spin things off to try and accuse sony of doing the same or worst. We are just going round and round repeating the same argumets.


That's the funny thing. I and plenty of Sony fans will never support a DRM console or digital only. I personally would never buy that type of product from anyone. If that does become the future then I am done with console gaming. I would only play on Steam then and I would have to buy a WiiU buy default if Sony had DRM.That is the day that I stop playing console period.

So... DRM through steam is perfectly fine, but on a console it is a deal breaker?  Ok then...

I play consoles to avoid restrictions like DRM or the need to always be online, plus I would not need to buy new hardware to play the latest games if I gamed on PC only. It would actually save me money if it came to that.



DogRemag on 10 July 2014
eva01beserk said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
Currently I have no internet, fuck this drm bullcrap

If sony and Microsoft both do this in the future than hello wii u!

Againg, why does the wii u have to be a last resort? its a great system and has great games.


LOL Maybe for you, but for me and others the games just are not appealing. At least with PC I can still get 3rd party games like the Witcher, Dragon Age and Batman.



Garland on 10 July 2014
The Fury said:
I'm sure not if people really believe some of the things they are saying in this thread or they are just that stupid/deluded.

The Cloud does not mean DRM, DRM does not mean The Cloud. PS Now is not DRM, it's not in anyway the same, that is like Netflix.

What people should be concerned about is this; IF MS introduce a game like Crackdown 3 (single player game) so it has to be played while connected to the internet, will they make people pay for Xbox Live Gold? If the answer is yes, then there is a serious issue.

It's most likely the latter.

Though I do agree with you & Raziel123 about what you two said.



LudicrousSpeed on 10 July 2014
DogRemag said:
eva01beserk said:
Can we please leave PS NOW out of this. It is no way the same. PS NOW is optional, you can still buy and play your games in stores and offline.

But anyways this thread is becoming so stupid. No matter how many times things get explained, repeatedly, the MS loyalist will never accept it and spin things off to try and accuse sony of doing the same or worst. We are just going round and round repeating the same argumets.


That's the funny thing. I and plenty of Sony fans will never support a DRM console or digital only. I personally would never buy that type of product from anyone. If that does become the future then I am done with console gaming. I would only play on Steam then and I would have to buy a WiiU buy default if Sony had DRM.That is the day that I stop playing console period.

ITT we learned console warriors will go back on their word and make excuses for their company of choice. Thank you guys for this exhilarating report.

As for always online, I just can't believe the OP. Next thing he will try to tell is MS will make the Internet required to download games or upload videos of gameplay to the Internets. I won't believe it.