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Forums - Sony - The Last of Us remastered now officially 1080p 60fps!

Richard_Feynman said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

I never enter an argument or make a serious claim unless it is both sound and correct.

There is no correlation between the linearity of a game and its technical demands.

This means that all things equal. The scale of the map is what determines the openess of a game. That does not mean it will render more, just that it will take up more space on disc.  The things that determine its technical demands are how its designed, not simply its openess.

EDIT: And yes, it occured to me that someone could simply design an open world and linear game to use the same assets but to clarify, THIS IS THE EXACT SAME WORLD, AN OPEN WORLD THATS LOADED A MAP FAR LARGER THAN IT CAN RENDER. In the linear sense its only rendering a part of the map. While the open world part is rendering multiple parts of the map in subsequent frames.

e.g

lets give a rendering cell an arbitrary amount of processing power, remember every cell is identical, so that the only difference is how much of the map is rendered not what is rendered.

each cell is 5, and their are 5 cells.

Linear:

Cell 1 (5) * 60 FPS = 300 a second

Open World:

Cell 1 (5) * 12 frames + Cell 2 (5) * 12 frames + Cell 3 (5) 12 frames + Cell 4 (5) 12 frames + Cell (5) *12 frames  = 300 a second, covering the entire map in a second


I certainly do appreciate the tone of your response and your writing style in general. That is a rare thing for me to say.

I get your argument, but for technical reasons I disagree. Why? It is very simple. Flying through the open world of GTA V in a jet enables me to reach each one of the (arbitrarily chosen) rendered cells in the city in a small enough time step to affect the quality of the rendered objects in each of these cells.

Hence, Uncharted2's village in the mountain (a very small, linear playing area):

Looks better than anything in any open world game on PS3. 

"There is no correlation between the linearity of a game and its technical demands."

I don't know why you are complicating things with strange statements and terms. Boiling down my point (and everyone else's who's arguing with you) to its absolute essense:

LINEAR GAMES HAVE BETTER GRAPHICS THAN OPEN WORLD GAMES

This is what everyone is arguing with you about. Nothing else. And everyon absolutely says that this is due to a difference in the technical demads of a game.

Taking this statement of yours:

"There is no correlation between the linearity of a game and its technical demands."

We can look at it a different way. This is important, so when you have the time please answer this:

If there is no correlation between the linearity of a game and its techincal demands, then for what reason were there not a plethora of open world games flooding the market after GTA III's astounding success? If there were no difference in technical demands, then surely everyone could have said, "oh yes, this is better", and simply made many more of the games open world?

I offer the answer that linear games are less technically demanding in a myriad of areas: visually, ito design, system memory blah blah blah.

If you could be more succinct with your statements (claims) then I'd appreciate it. Also, sources validating your claims would be appreciated.

So I'm disagreeing with you, but not in bad spirits.


In that sense, they are in a way. Since an open world game has to constainly stream assets and will have less of them kept at all time in the RAM, having to replace them all the time as the player moves to different locations, as opposed to linear games having more of the level pre-loaded at once, this aspect makes it more difficult for the hardware to handle graphical fidelity as rich as in linear games.

Linear games, by their nature, also allow more demanding features to be used, like ambiant occlusion, higher res models and textures, more complex geometry and tesselation, etc... Thus making the argument that one kind of game being more, or less demanding for the hardware relatively moot. 

That being said, if an open world game had all the bells and whistles as a linear game, that game would be technically superior. But the argument in these forums are brought when talking about games that are made for closed hardware architectures. As such, a game like TLoU is not really [if at all] less demanding for the PS3 than a game like GTAV. GTAV on console is optimized to make use of the hardware the same as TLoU. As such, it can't demand [much] more than a game like TLoU (it probably does, seeing as R* games struggle much more to keep a solid framerate than ND games. But one is also first party while the other make multiplatform games, which most likely even things out.).

But yes, in essence, graphical parity for graphical parity, an open world game (on an open architecture like PC, where you can crank the performance up by improving the architecture components) is more demanding on the hardware than a linear game.




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noob question here but is this or the ps3 version in 3d



yum123 said:
noob question here but is this or the ps3 version in 3d


Nope. 3d has pretty much been abandoned.



Hynad said:

In that sense, they are in a way. Since an open world game has to constainly stream assets and will have less of them kept at all time in the RAM, having to replace them all the time as the player moves to different locations, as opposed to linear games having more of the level pre-loaded at once, this aspect makes it more difficult for the hardware to handle graphical fidelity as rich as in linear games.

Linear games, by their nature, also allow more demanding features to be used, like ambiant occlusion, higher res models and textures, more complex geometry and tesselation, etc... Thus making the argument that one kind of game being more, or less demanding for the hardware relatively moot. 

That being said, if an open world game had all the bells and whistles as a linear game, that game would be technically superior. But the argument in these forums are brought when talking about games that are made for closed hardware architectures. As such, a game like TLoU is not really [if at all] less demanding for the PS3 than a game like GTAV. GTAV on console is optimized to make use of the hardware the same as TLoU. As such, it can't demand [much] more than a game like TLoU. 

But yes, in essence, graphical parity for graphical parity, an open world game (on an open architecture like PC, where you can crank the performance up by improving the architecture components) is more demanding on the hardware than a linear game.



That sums it up nicely I think. But it also illustrates the miscommunication regarding "graphical fidelity" and "technical demands" that has surfaced here. It shouldn't be part of the conversation as it overcomplicates the simple point:

Linear games look prettier

:P



Richard_Feynman said:

I certainly do appreciate the tone of your response and your writing style in general. That is a rare thing for me to say.

I get your argument, but for technical reasons I disagree. Why? It is very simple. Flying through the open world of GTA V in a jet enables me to reach each one of the (arbitrarily chosen) rendered cells in the city in a small enough time step to affect the quality of the rendered objects in each of these cells.

As an experiment in the example, I've given both versions have the exact same assets loaded in. If you are moving faster than the frame rate of the render then it will look jerky.

"There is no correlation between the linearity of a game and its technical demands."

Because its an abstraction. All else being equal, the area of a loaded map being rendered doesn't change the demand of rendering itself. When moving across the map, its rendering different areas but its distributed amongst the timesteps.

LINEAR GAMES HAVE BETTER GRAPHICS THAN OPEN WORLD GAMES

This in truth doesn't counter my claim, and well I never made said statement in counter to someone elses assertion. Others made this argument to counter my claim, and I defended it.

"There is no correlation between the linearity of a game and its technical demands."

We can look at it a different way. This is important, so when you have the time please answer this:

If there is no correlation between the linearity of a game and its techincal demands, then for what reason were there not a plethora of open world games flooding the market after GTA III's astounding success? If there were no difference in technical demands, then surely everyone could have said, "oh yes, this is better", and simply made many more of the games open world?

Because they prioritize other things. If the game only used one portion of that map, then it would not need to waste time and ram storing in the extra parts of the map, and focus on graphical effects. Open world games render more of the world and spend more technical power overall.

I offer the answer that linear games are less technically demanding in a myriad of areas: visually, ito design, system memory blah blah blah.

If you could be more succinct with your statements (claims) then I'd appreciate it. Also, sources validating your claims would be appreciated.

So I'm disagreeing with you, but not in bad spirits.

My abstraction isn't real world. No developer in their right mind would take the say GTA5 and then only restrict the game to Micheal's House, still loading everything and doing everything the original game would for something the player would never see. No.

If they knew the player would never leave Micheal's home then, they could get rid of all the loading done to load the game map, abandon all the textures, models, Ai etc, slap on ultra HD textures on everything, render it at 4k and 120 fps and rarely ever have it drop to something as ghastly as 119 fps.

The  openess (map scale) itself doesn't automatically make the game more taxing is what im saying, everything else does.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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No matter what's the resolution, still I can't see the point in making a re-release so soon.



Hey don't click here ! It's creepy !!

I want a PlayStation All-Stars Sequel ! Come on Sony, stop making too many shooters !

I'll make a better signature when I'll have time to do it...  

estebxx said:
RafaelOrix said:
Mystro-Sama said:
Can't wait to finally play it on PS4 after hearing so many good things about it.

Yeah, me too. Decided to wait a little longer and I think it will be well worth it, also I'm doing basically a media blackout to avoid spoilers.


Yeah i did the same thing but didnt had luck avoiding spoilers especially thanks to Youtube thumbnails and that TLOU trailer Sony showed on their E3 (2014) press conference....

I F#CKING HATE SPOILERS!!!!

I was working when Sony released that first trailer, so when I saw it was available there were people screaming "Spoilers!!", I ended up avoiding it. I also stopped watching the press con when they showed the TLOU trailer to avoid being spoiled. Lucky me!



dane007 said:
@kane Yea fair enough but so far the trailer shows very little difference between the two version. They are tweeting such huge upgrade yet they have not shown any gameplay videos to illustrate teh graphical upgrades that both ND and Sony have been touting about . They could have shown at least one actual gameplay video lol.


The reason there is very little difference is because they only showed cutscenes which they havent touched at all, outside of in-game ones. like the giraffe scene in the reveal trailer.

I will agree that not showing any gameplay so far is a bad marketing strategy, but I have no doubts in the technical quality of the game



vivster said:
Hynad said:
vivster said:
How often will it drop to 30?


Why would it?

Because it's a game on the PS4. Name one AAA game on PS4 that didn't drop to 30fps at some point.


Wolfenstein the World Order



dane007 said:
Eddie_Raja said:
dane007 said:

If you wre to port it without having any enhancement and just the original engine,, then yes you  will be right . However if you are going to completely remake it with two engines (incl the  original engine ) and get it both to 1080p and 60fps then no you will be wrong. Remember they are getting to run at teh same time so the players can switch back and forwardwithoutdelay. Secondly the orignal engien fofr it also got remastered  . Then the  new engien is used to get the graphics to teh standard of xbox one graphics. All of this demanding especially getting both engines to 1080p.

 

I have read those articles. But anyone can write saying wow it loooks so next gen ,, its the best you wilkl ever see and next gen won' start till TLOU says so. Anyone can do that and use it as a click bait article. As i have said the game is coming close to end off july and we have not seen one gameplay video. if the game has been gold then why not show graphics if the enhancements is as great as sony tweeted or insiders have tweeted. Not showing gameplay is usually a bad sign . I I am reserving my judgement till the reail copy comes out :).

I just want to update you with these newly released screenshots:  

http://cdn3.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Rolling-Acres-Mall-Ohio1065.jpg.CROP_.original-original.jpg?57efa4

http://cdn4.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/DSC_0752.jpg.CROP_.original-original.jpg?57efa4

http://cdn3.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/DSC_0667_4.jpg.CROP_.original-original.jpg?57efa4

Look like a simple port to you?  :P



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]