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Forums - Gaming - Worst 3D Zelda?

 

Worst one?

Ocarina of TT 60 11.90%
 
Majora's Mask 88 17.46%
 
The Wii Wii Waker 85 16.87%
 
Twilight Princess 106 21.03%
 
Skyward Sword 165 32.74%
 
Total:504

From those that I player (played them all but MM), it's Wind Waker. Still a fantastic game tho, and imo has the best endind of all Zelda games which is saying alot. But that game has almost no dongeons, that rediculous! And the dongeons it have are among the weakest in the series.



 

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archer9234 said:

You make a vaild point. But SS picked the annoying parts to repeat. Which is why people complained. I didn't mind those repeats in other games. But the Balloon toes and Gir were bad bosses because of the motion sword controls. And the spiral climb up. He made me fall 5 times when I had to use the air vents to fly up. just because it caused a position conflict when I landed too close to him. And then falling off because the swipping didn't respond.

I've already stated why I think Ghirahim was a good boss fight (enjoyment does hinge on your enjoyment of the controls though), but I do agree that the Imprisoned fight should not have been repeated three times. However, I don't really think that it deserves the hate it receives. There were a few things that could have been better, but overall, they were tiny pieces of a great game. Many of the Zelda games had sections like that, but they tend to be looked over (Zelda cycle maybe?)...



sundin13 said:
archer9234 said:
 

You make a vaild point. But SS picked the annoying parts to repeat. Which is why people complained. I didn't mind those repeats in other games. But the Balloon toes and Gir were bad bosses because of the motion sword controls. And the spiral climb up. He made me fall 5 times when I had to use the air vents to fly up. just because it caused a position conflict when I landed too close to him. And then falling off because the swipping didn't respond.

I've already stated why I think Ghirahim was a good boss fight (enjoyment does hinge on your enjoyment of the controls though), but I do agree that the Imprisoned fight should not have been repeated three times. However, I don't really think that it deserves the hate it receives. There were a few things that could have been better, but overall, they were tiny pieces of a great game. Many of the Zelda games had sections like that, but they tend to be looked over (Zelda cycle maybe?)...

I don't buy into that whole "cycle" stuff. I never change my stance. I hate Zelda 2 still, and loved MM, WW from the start. I never hated TP. Probably because I only played the GC version? I do agree the mechanics are annoying. But didn't piss me off. Which SS unfortunaly did. I won't change my percepsion of SS. Unless its ported to Wii U and eliminates the anoying problems, like WW HD did.

Control responses are absolute must for me. Any error that isn't caused by me instantly gets me angry. I went beyond angry when the 3rd balloon toes fight started. I haven't completed SS. I'm still at the 3rd fight. And I've never done this to a Zelda game. I've played and beat every single one.It's not the hard factor either. I've beat Master Quest and other stupid insane things. Like playing Zelda 1 with no sword. I really don't see me ever compeleting the game.  Unless I can skip this fight, and Fii is muted.



sundin13 said:

You have to repeat things in pretty much all Zelda games...how many times did you go to death mountain or Lake Hylia in OoT (I can think of at least two times you are required to go to both, and a few more times for optional stuff)? Thats pretty much how it worked in Skyward Sword, except each time, there was more to the overworld instead of just being a new dungeon. People talk a lot about how much repeating there was in SS, but its not like you do the same thing three times. In Faron woods, there was the big open section (which flooded, making it drastically different), the more maze like section, the Sealed Grounds/Temple, and the Lake...and that isn't even talking about the dungeons. This worked in to the "get a new weapon and open new doors" backtracking system, which reminded me a bit of Metroid. Yes there was some repetition, but thats how it is in all Zelda games, the rule of threes is just part of the design, however there was more focus on making the overworld interesting in SS (which it achieved with flying colors IMO, however that draws more attention to the "repitition" you are talking about).

The "wonder" comes in the first time you enter a section, when you see something new, and when you are in dungeons...same as always.

In OOT, you were required to go to each zone twice, once as a child and once as an adult.  The difference is that each area had drastically changed, and (for me) I really enjoyed discovering what had happened 7 years later.  In SS, they are basically locked doors that get unlocked once you reach a certain point in the game.  If you enjoyed that, that's great, but I enjoyed having the freedom to go anywhere in OOT.  The "sense of wonder" I was referring to can't be found when you are basically led to point a then b then c.  And you are right about the metroid comparison, but zelda isn't supposed to be metroid.



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JakDaSnack said:

In OOT, you were required to go to each zone twice, once as a child and once as an adult.  The difference is that each area had drastically changed, and (for me) I really enjoyed discovering what had happened 7 years later.  In SS, they are basically locked doors that get unlocked once you reach a certain point in the game.  If you enjoyed that, that's great, but I enjoyed having the freedom to go anywhere in OOT.  The "sense of wonder" I was referring to can't be found when you are basically led to point a then b then c.  And you are right about the metroid comparison, but zelda isn't supposed to be metroid.


Those "drastic changes" were pretty much taking 99% of the things living in an area and removing them...not really sure how that is interesting. It just made things much more boring. With Skyward Sword, you would unlock brand new areas each time you go to a zone, or they would get drastically changed (flooding is a way more drastic change than removing the people)...Also, multiple side quests in OoT required you to go back and forth between places multiple times to do things such as planting beans or collecting masks. To make that even more annoying, you had to constantly switch between timelines which slowed things down even more and made things even more repetitive...

Also, Zelda has had Metroid-style backtracking for a long time (Metroid is more upfront about it obviously), with getting new equipment which opens new doors. I distinctly remember it doing things like that in both TP and WW...yet I never hear complaints about that. Skyward Sword's did it a little more strongly due to the fact that they encorporated more puzzles into the overworld (which as I said, made it much more interesting)...

Hmph...lets just agree to disagree because I don't think we are going to change each other's minds ^.^

@ Archer: I have never experienced any control problems in SS and in my experience, they seem to usually be on the user's end. Those Imprisoned fights were all pretty easy to me. The only times I died in the game were the first fight against Ghirahim and the Final Boss fight...



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Skyward Sword as I just could not get in to it.



sundin13 said:

Those "drastic changes" were pretty much taking 99% of the things living in an area and removing them...not really sure how that is interesting. It just made things much more boring. With Skyward Sword, you would unlock brand new areas each time you go to a zone, or they would get drastically changed (flooding is a way more drastic change than removing the people)...Also, multiple side quests in OoT required you to go back and forth between places multiple times to do things such as planting beans or collecting masks. To make that even more annoying, you had to constantly switch between timelines which slowed things down even more and made things even more repetitive...

Also, Zelda has had Metroid-style backtracking for a long time (Metroid is more upfront about it obviously), with getting new equipment which opens new doors. I distinctly remember it doing things like that in both TP and WW...yet I never hear complaints about that. Skyward Sword's did it a little more strongly due to the fact that they encorporated more puzzles into the overworld (which as I said, made it much more interesting)...

Hmph...lets just agree to disagree because I don't think we are going to change each other's minds ^.^

Well, if you left your house for 7 years and then came back only to find your house burned down with a bunch of zombies walking around, you might find that things "drastically changed" :P  I'm not talking about the sidequests because that's standard, I'm more talking about the main quest.  Switching timelines to go to a new area was still faster than switching from one zone to another in SS:P  It wasn't as obvious in TP and WW, with skyward sword you basically had a line on the ground that you followed that took you from puzzle to puzzle.  The strongest feature was the puzzles, and unlike the other games, they had puzzles to get to the dungeons, rather than just puzzles in the dungeons.  That was a really cool feature but it kind of just made it feel like one larger dungeon.

Now come on, do you really think you can change someones minds with an online discussion?  Seriously...come on, that never happens:P  At least for me, or maybe I'm just terribly bad at debates.  I mostly do this because I enjoy it, I like being reminded of some of the best parts of zelda games.  I really really enjoyed SS, but I am aware of its flaws, which were the unreliable controls and the fact that it was more linear and more repetitive than previous iterations.  That being said, it did have the strongest puzzles, and if you happened to be one of the lucky few who actually had next to no problems with the controls, then I can imagine you having a fantastic gaming experience:)  But if you actually tried the controls on different tv's, the problems become quite obvious...and frustrating....



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JakDaSnack said:

Well, if you left your house for 7 years and then came back only to find your house burned down with a bunch of zombies walking around, you might find that things "drastically changed" :P  I'm not talking about the sidequests because that's standard, I'm more talking about the main quest.  Switching timelines to go to a new area was still faster than switching from one zone to another in SS:P  It wasn't as obvious in TP and WW, with skyward sword you basically had a line on the ground that you followed that took you from puzzle to puzzle.  The strongest feature was the puzzles, and unlike the other games, they had puzzles to get to the dungeons, rather than just puzzles in the dungeons.  That was a really cool feature but it kind of just made it feel like one larger dungeon.

Now come on, do you really think you can change someones minds with an online discussion?  Seriously...come on, that never happens:P  At least for me, or maybe I'm just terribly bad at debates.  I mostly do this because I enjoy it, I like being reminded of some of the best parts of zelda games.  I really really enjoyed SS, but I am aware of its flaws, which were the unreliable controls and the fact that it was more linear and more repetitive than previous iterations.  That being said, it did have the strongest puzzles, and if you happened to be one of the lucky few who actually had next to no problems with the controls, then I can imagine you having a fantastic gaming experience:)  But if you actually tried the controls on different tv's, the problems become quite obvious...and frustrating....

"Well, if you left your house for 7 years and then came back only to find your house burned down with a bunch of zombies walking around, you might find that things "drastically changed": I guess that was kind of cool the first time I was in town, but I was actually thinking about Death Mountain and the Zora's place which just got really boring after the time switch. Overall, I think the execution was very lacking and it didn't marry with gameplay very well...

"That was a really cool feature but it kind of just made it feel like one larger dungeon.": Thats probably a part of why I liked it so much. The dungeons are usually the best part of Zelda games, while the overworlds tend to be bland middle men between them, so making the overworld more like a dungeon was a huge plus for me.

Anyways, yeah, I didn't really expect to change anyones mind, it just makes me a little sad to see so many people talking down about a game that I love, and focusing on certain parts when there is so much good to be found in other parts. Also, that issue with the different TV is very strange, as there is no reason in the technology for that to matter (the game didn't use the IR sensor, so sensor bar positioning wouldn't matter)...Either way, I can see the frustration if the controls don't work, but I still feel like it may be a problem with the user and not the game :P Maybe I'm just a natural swordsman or something haha ^.^



sundin13 said:

"Well, if you left your house for 7 years and then came back only to find your house burned down with a bunch of zombies walking around, you might find that things "drastically changed": I guess that was kind of cool the first time I was in town, but I was actually thinking about Death Mountain and the Zora's place which just got really boring after the time switch. Overall, I think the execution was very lacking and it didn't marry with gameplay very well...

"That was a really cool feature but it kind of just made it feel like one larger dungeon.": Thats probably a part of why I liked it so much. The dungeons are usually the best part of Zelda games, while the overworlds tend to be bland middle men between them, so making the overworld more like a dungeon was a huge plus for me.

Anyways, yeah, I didn't really expect to change anyones mind, it just makes me a little sad to see so many people talking down about a game that I love, and focusing on certain parts when there is so much good to be found in other parts. Also, that issue with the different TV is very strange, as there is no reason in the technology for that to matter (the game didn't use the IR sensor, so sensor bar positioning wouldn't matter)...Either way, I can see the frustration if the controls don't work, but I still feel like it may be a problem with the user and not the game :P Maybe I'm just a natural swordsman or something haha ^.^

Well, back then it probably just made more sense from a game design perspective to just take away everything to make you feel the world, as you knew it, was forever gone. 

I think that was the plan all along, they didn't have the power with the wii to make a giant world, so they just turned the world into a giant puzzle.

I know that feeling, which is partially why I don't prefer these kind of threads because it just gets everyone to start bashing certain zelda games when I personally feel that they are all great.  And yes, you are a natural swordsman:P



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Toss-up between Ocarina and Twilight Princess, but I vote Ocarina.

Ocarina had a bad script, and it covered it with good gameplay. Twilight Princess had a cool as hell art style for the Twilight stuff, but it had some real snoozer dungeons at the end and didn't use Epona nearly enough. Also, not enough time with Zelda. I get the implication she was Frienemies with Midna, but we kinda needed to see it for ourselves.