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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Ubisoft CEO: “Nintendo has to perform this year, otherwise they will have less games”

Rab said:

Ultimately the CPU is not the issue, it's the GPU intensive architecture that's different from last gen architecture, PC's also have issues with poorly optimised ports 


No, the CPU is an issue. Games running on 8 year old hardware should not be bottlenecked by the CPU of new gen hardware, theres simply no excuse for that. Not everything can run on the GPU and the WiiUs compute power probably isnt breathtaking either.

"There was even some discussion on trying to utilise the GPU via compute shaders (GPGPU) to offload work from the CPU - exactly the approach I expect to see gain traction on the next-gen consoles - but with very limited development time and no examples or guidance from Nintendo, we didn't feel that we could risk attempting this work. If we had a larger development team or a longer timeframe, maybe we would have attempted it, but in hindsight we would have been limited as to what we could have done before we maxed out the GPU again. The GPU is better than on PS3 or Xbox 360, but leagues away from the graphics hardware in the PS4 or Xbox One."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

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SubiyaCryolite said:
Rab said:

Ultimately the CPU is not the issue, it's the GPU intensive architecture that's different from last gen architecture, PC's also have issues with poorly optimised ports 


No, the CPU is an issue. Games running on 8 year old hardware should not be bottlenecked by the CPU of new gen hardware, theres simply no excuse for that. Not everything can run on the GPU and the WiiUs compute power probably isnt breathtaking either.

"There was even some discussion on trying to utilise the GPU via compute shaders (GPGPU) to offload work from the CPU - exactly the approach I expect to see gain traction on the next-gen consoles - but with very limited development time and no examples or guidance from Nintendo, we didn't feel that we could risk attempting this work. If we had a larger development team or a longer timeframe, maybe we would have attempted it, but in hindsight we would have been limited as to what we could have done before we maxed out the GPU again. The GPU is better than on PS3 or Xbox 360, but leagues away from the graphics hardware in the PS4 or Xbox One."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story


I gave you an example of a tradtionally intensive CPU heavy game type in Hyrule Warriors that the Wii U will handle without issue. If some devs can't or wont program for the Wii U's GPU then it's not the ability of the system, it's the architecture, Nintendo and some others seem to do well enough on the system as is

Again even high end PC's have had many similar issues with ports, in my opinion it's still mostly to do with architecture and the willingness of devs to work with it



Rab said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
Rab said:

Ultimately the CPU is not the issue, it's the GPU intensive architecture that's different from last gen architecture, PC's also have issues with poorly optimised ports 


No, the CPU is an issue. Games running on 8 year old hardware should not be bottlenecked by the CPU of new gen hardware, theres simply no excuse for that. Not everything can run on the GPU and the WiiUs compute power probably isnt breathtaking either.

"There was even some discussion on trying to utilise the GPU via compute shaders (GPGPU) to offload work from the CPU - exactly the approach I expect to see gain traction on the next-gen consoles - but with very limited development time and no examples or guidance from Nintendo, we didn't feel that we could risk attempting this work. If we had a larger development team or a longer timeframe, maybe we would have attempted it, but in hindsight we would have been limited as to what we could have done before we maxed out the GPU again. The GPU is better than on PS3 or Xbox 360, but leagues away from the graphics hardware in the PS4 or Xbox One."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story


I gave you an example of a tradtionally intensive CPU heavy game type in Hyrule Warriors that the Wii U will handle without issue. If some devs can't or wont program for the Wii U's GPU then it's not the ability of the system, it's the architecture, Nintendo and some others seem to do well enough on the system as is

Again even high end PC's have had many similar issues with ports, in my opinion it's still mostly to do with architecture and the willingness of devs to work with it

You seem to fail to realize (on purpose or otherwise) what he's saying - Hyrule Warriors is WiiU exclusive and it will be fine tuned for WiiU.

Nintendo and their 3rd party exclusive partners will squeeze eveything that they can from WiiU, but that does not mean that rest of 3rd party devs will waste their time and resources trying to do something that should be easy by default for 8th gen console.

Pulling 'GPU intensive arhitecture' card is obfuscation of real issue (given that both PS4 and XOne are also 'GPU intensive arhitectures' and they would have no problem), and the real issue is WiiU's very weak CPU.





padib said:
Zod95 said:

It seemed to me that you were not getting what he was saying. Now I see where you're coming from. Answering your question: because the console is too expensive for casuals and too weak for hardcore gamers. The market is just not there but for Nintendo games. I completely agree with you. padib's hope may be that, if Ubisoft Montreal put their magic into a title tailored for WiiU, the sales would be great and then 3rd party support could grow viral.

Yes, you are right. I have that much faith in Ubi Montreal that I believe that would happen, like it happened for Splinter Cell on Xbox original.

And Oni is always making cases of intent, I don't believe Ubi owes anything to Nintendo and was not what I was trying to say like I clarified twice already what I meant by that.

That shouldn't happen though because their fanbase on PS and XB is so big they shouldn't ignore those. Especially for a console whose owners only blame them for everything and not acknowledging the support they have been giving for the Wii U.



Rab said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
Rab said:

Ultimately the CPU is not the issue, it's the GPU intensive architecture that's different from last gen architecture, PC's also have issues with poorly optimised ports 


No, the CPU is an issue. Games running on 8 year old hardware should not be bottlenecked by the CPU of new gen hardware, theres simply no excuse for that. Not everything can run on the GPU and the WiiUs compute power probably isnt breathtaking either.

"There was even some discussion on trying to utilise the GPU via compute shaders (GPGPU) to offload work from the CPU - exactly the approach I expect to see gain traction on the next-gen consoles - but with very limited development time and no examples or guidance from Nintendo, we didn't feel that we could risk attempting this work. If we had a larger development team or a longer timeframe, maybe we would have attempted it, but in hindsight we would have been limited as to what we could have done before we maxed out the GPU again. The GPU is better than on PS3 or Xbox 360, but leagues away from the graphics hardware in the PS4 or Xbox One."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story


I gave you an example of a tradtionally intensive CPU heavy game type in Hyrule Warriors that the Wii U will handle without issue. If some devs can't or wont program for the Wii U's GPU then it's not the ability of the system, it's the architecture, Nintendo and some others seem to do well enough on the system as is

Again even high end PC's have had many similar issues with ports, in my opinion it's still mostly to do with architecture and the willingness of devs to work with it

A 1.2GHz tri-core CPU is barely adequate for 7th gen ports and after Project CARS 8th gen only games from 3rd party games won't even see the light of day on the system.

Basically third parties have to significantly rewrite their game engines to work around the Wii U's limitations, and thats for 7th gen ports. Despite the hype for GPGPU CPU performance is still important, I simply cannot see next-gen only games like Arkham Knight or AC Unity running on anything less than a reasonably powerful quad core or many moderetaly clocked cores like the PS4 and XB1.



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

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SubiyaCryolite said:
Teeqoz said:
SubiyaCryolite said:
Teeqoz said:
Ucell said:

You can't expect AC IV: BF to run the same way on Wii U and X1. The X1 is far more powerful than a Wii U.

Also publishers publish games only when they sell and turn a large-enough profit. Ubisoft games sell on X1 so they support the platform and they don't sell on Wii U so they don't suppot the platform. Its that simple.

But the least you could expect is that it should run equal or better to the ps360 versions, and it didn't. That isn't the Wii U's fault, it is Ubi's fault.

Its the WiiUs fault, specifically its CPUs fault. Every game with fps problems on the WiiU tends to have many characters on screen and most of these characters animation deformations and physics is calculated on the CPU. Many devs complained bluntly about its CPU at launch.


Not that I am a dev or anything, but I'm fairly certain that the Wii U's Cpu is better than for example the 360's CPU

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/tekken-s-harada-says-wii-u-s-cpu-lags-behind-360-and-ps3/099435

"As far as graphical processing and such, it's not much of an issue. But as far as the CPU goes, the clock is kinda low,”

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/dynasty-warriors-producer-wii-u-cpu-power-less-com-29294152/  

"One of the weaknesses of the Wii U compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 is the CPU power is a little bit less...So for games in the Warriors series, including Dynasty Warriors and Warriors Orochi, when you have a lot of enemies coming at you at once, the performance tends to be affected because of the CPU."

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1687689/wii_u_has_a_horrible_slow_cpu_says_metro_last_light_dev.html

"Wii U has a horrible, slow CPU..... We had an early look at it, we thought we could probably do it, but in terms of the impact we would make on the overall quality of the game – potentially to its detriment – we just figured it wasn’t worth pursuing at this time. It’s something we might return to. I really couldn’t make any promises, though"

I've noticed it myself in games like Mass Effect 3 (citadel levels), emmediately I leave an elevator and walk towards the presidium commons (with about 40 - 50 NPCs) boom, the framerate tanks.


I wish more people would read this, so we can put an end to this whole. Wii U ports are half assed nonsense. Matter of fact i might copy this and use it whenever it comes up again



SubiyaCryolite said:
Teeqoz said:
SubiyaCryolite said:

Its the WiiUs fault, specifically its CPUs fault. Every game with fps problems on the WiiU tends to have many characters on screen and most of these characters animation deformations and physics is calculated on the CPU. Many devs complained bluntly about its CPU at launch.


Not that I am a dev or anything, but I'm fairly certain that the Wii U's Cpu is better than for example the 360's CPU

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/tekken-s-harada-says-wii-u-s-cpu-lags-behind-360-and-ps3/099435

"As far as graphical processing and such, it's not much of an issue. But as far as the CPU goes, the clock is kinda low,”

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/dynasty-warriors-producer-wii-u-cpu-power-less-com-29294152/  

"One of the weaknesses of the Wii U compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 is the CPU power is a little bit less...So for games in the Warriors series, including Dynasty Warriors and Warriors Orochi, when you have a lot of enemies coming at you at once, the performance tends to be affected because of the CPU."

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1687689/wii_u_has_a_horrible_slow_cpu_says_metro_last_light_dev.html

"Wii U has a horrible, slow CPU..... We had an early look at it, we thought we could probably do it, but in terms of the impact we would make on the overall quality of the game – potentially to its detriment – we just figured it wasn’t worth pursuing at this time. It’s something we might return to. I really couldn’t make any promises, though"

I've noticed it myself in games like Mass Effect 3 (citadel levels), emmediately I leave an elevator and walk towards the presidium commons (with about 40 - 50 NPCs) boom, the framerate tanks.

you literaly picked the less credible links possible. the basic REAL information we have is that wii u's cpu isn't in the same level of it's gpu, but the gpu can handle cpu stuff. in the end, it's balanced.



HoloDust said:
Rab said:


I gave you an example of a tradtionally intensive CPU heavy game type in Hyrule Warriors that the Wii U will handle without issue. If some devs can't or wont program for the Wii U's GPU then it's not the ability of the system, it's the architecture, Nintendo and some others seem to do well enough on the system as is

Again even high end PC's have had many similar issues with ports, in my opinion it's still mostly to do with architecture and the willingness of devs to work with it

You seem to fail to realize (on purpose or otherwise) what he's saying - Hyrule Warriors is WiiU exclusive and it will be fine tuned for WiiU.

Nintendo and their 3rd party exclusive partners will squeeze eveything that they can from WiiU, but that does not mean that rest of 3rd party devs will waste their time and resources trying to do something that should be easy by default for 8th gen console.

Pulling 'GPU intensive arhitecture' card is obfuscation of real issue (given that both PS4 and XOne are also 'GPU intensive arhitectures' and they would have no problem), and the real issue is WiiU's very weak CPU.



those are pretty poor "arguments". you are baselessly saying it takes an herculean power to do this stuff on wii u when it's merely DIFFERENT. Just like every console is different from one another. ps3 was VERY different from 360, in terms of programing. just for the games to be ported to ps3, devs had to put far more effort than they will ever have with any wii u game. would you consider they were wasting their resources on ps3?

Developing for wii u is different than for ps4, wich is different than for xone and all are different from wii, ps3 and 360. it's a dev 's job to learn how to use each hardware without making complaints up.



Zero999 said:
HoloDust said:

You seem to fail to realize (on purpose or otherwise) what he's saying - Hyrule Warriors is WiiU exclusive and it will be fine tuned for WiiU.

Nintendo and their 3rd party exclusive partners will squeeze eveything that they can from WiiU, but that does not mean that rest of 3rd party devs will waste their time and resources trying to do something that should be easy by default for 8th gen console.

Pulling 'GPU intensive arhitecture' card is obfuscation of real issue (given that both PS4 and XOne are also 'GPU intensive arhitectures' and they would have no problem), and the real issue is WiiU's very weak CPU.

those are pretty poor "arguments". you are baselessly saying it takes an herculean power to do this stuff on wii u when it's merely DIFFERENT. Just like every console is different from one another. ps3 was VERY different from 360, in terms of programing. just for the games to be ported to ps3, devs had to put far more effort than they will ever have with any wii u game. would you consider they were wasting their resources on ps3?

Developing for wii u is different than for ps4, wich is different than for xone and all are different from wii, ps3 and 360. it's a dev 's job to learn how to use each hardware without making complaints up.


I'm not sure about what "arguments" you're talking about, but I'll suggest you reread few previous posts, specially one with Dynasty Warriors dev and from EG article, before jumping the  gun.

Naturally that developing for every system is different than the others. But that's not what was the subject of discussion - porting 7th gen game to 8th gen console should be very easy, not something that requires that much trouble due to weak specs of one or more components.

But I agree, it is indeed devs' jobs to learn how to use hardware properly. Of course, there needs to be incentive for that, and for 3rd parties that means user base that is actually buying those titles...which in Wii U's case is not happening.

Which brings us at the end to Ubi, their resolve to support Wii U and, in the end, their (completely justified) reasons to drop or lower that support.



HoloDust said:
Zero999 said:
HoloDust said:

You seem to fail to realize (on purpose or otherwise) what he's saying - Hyrule Warriors is WiiU exclusive and it will be fine tuned for WiiU.

Nintendo and their 3rd party exclusive partners will squeeze eveything that they can from WiiU, but that does not mean that rest of 3rd party devs will waste their time and resources trying to do something that should be easy by default for 8th gen console.

Pulling 'GPU intensive arhitecture' card is obfuscation of real issue (given that both PS4 and XOne are also 'GPU intensive arhitectures' and they would have no problem), and the real issue is WiiU's very weak CPU.

those are pretty poor "arguments". you are baselessly saying it takes an herculean power to do this stuff on wii u when it's merely DIFFERENT. Just like every console is different from one another. ps3 was VERY different from 360, in terms of programing. just for the games to be ported to ps3, devs had to put far more effort than they will ever have with any wii u game. would you consider they were wasting their resources on ps3?

Developing for wii u is different than for ps4, wich is different than for xone and all are different from wii, ps3 and 360. it's a dev 's job to learn how to use each hardware without making complaints up.


I'm not sure about what "arguments" you're talking about, but I'll suggest you reread few previous posts, specially one with Dynasty Warriors dev and from EG article, before jumping the  gun.

Naturally that developing for every system is different than the others. But that's not what was the subject of discussion - porting 7th gen game to 8th gen console should be very easy, not something that requires that much trouble due to weak specs of one or more components.

But I agree, it is indeed devs' jobs to learn how to use hardware properly. Of course, there needs to be incentive for that, and for 3rd parties that means user base that is actually buying those titles...which in Wii U's case is not happening.

Which brings us at the end to Ubi, their resolve to support Wii U and, in the end, their (completely justified) reasons to drop or lower that support.


This. Say what you want about PS3 but for all the crying some Wii U owners are doing, those initial PS3 multiplats ran just as bad or even worse than any on Wii U. But the difference is, those games were actual bought given devs to incentive to not only continue but to make them better. Which they did. Some will pull "well Sony players just put up with it, not us Ninty guys" so be it. Dont complain when games dont come to the system then.