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Forums - Nintendo - Why Nintendo doesn't (CURRENTLY) need third party support.

Aielyn said:
oniyide said:
lol are you for real. COD 3 is effort to you. a game with NO MP at all and crap frame rate. That was easily the worst effort on the system ever. YOu are right that it lead to people saying screw the WIi version of those games. I think people put way too much into COD4 missing on Wii as the cause of the decline. Pretty sure it was mostly COD3 sucking.

The problem with your argument is you cherry picked the games that sold well, but there are probably just as much or more games that sold like crap on the system. YOu gonna sit there and say they all must have been "badly" made? How can you when COD games for instance did get better and better but sales got worst and worst. And if we really wanna talk quality the WIi U efforts have been far better but they still sell terrible.

Sadly, no MP and crap frame rate WAS Activision putting in an effort. Look at some of the other games from third parties at the time. And the lack of CoD4 was a contributing factor; so was the fact that WaW lacked the big added appeal of the Zombie mode, etc. Each and every CoD since CoD3 has been lacking in functionality on the Wii compared with other versions, and none of it had anything to do with lack of capability of the system, because later ones introduced the functionality that was missing in earlier ones... while missing the new functionality. Every one of them has lacked DLC, with the first game to actually get DLC content at all being CoD: Ghosts, and that was only made available about 6 months after release (and without being announced ahead of time), when it was a pre-order bonus on the other systems.

Oh, and they also didn't actually advertise any except CoD3 and WaW, and WaW was only advertised during Nintendo's E3 presentation.

I don't cherry pick the games that sold well. My argument isn't that all games sell well on Nintendo systems. My argument is that SOME games sell well on Nintendo systems, and that genre isn't the restricting factor. To demonstrate that, I merely have to provide examples of it. It is *not* cherry picking to provide evidence of existence by giving examples of existence. What *is* cherrypicking is to declare nonexistence by rejecting every example of existence for nonsensical reasons, or declaring that there's no market for a genre because some games in that genre sold poorly (especially if you don't pay attention to things like advertising, features, etc, when examining it).

The FACT is that games of this sort CAN sell well on Nintendo systems. That is irrefutable, given that there are plenty of examples of it. The assertion that was made was that GTA has not been tested on the system, to which it was claimed that there was "plenty of evidence" that games like GTA could not possibly sell well on the system... which is false, as I have demonstrated.

Now, if you have nothing except bad logic (on your part) to base your dismissal of my arguments on, then I have no reason to continue arguing with you.

oniyide said:
He's still lying to himself. Ill add that GE is VERY overrated and that was by far my most played WIi game. BUt lets be real it had NO competition on the system at all. What game was touching that on WIi? only games close were COD and there were better versions on 3 other platforms. Why didnt it light the charts up on PS360. It was a  year late. MORE expensive than the WIi version and there are MUCH better FPS on the systems, Bioshock, Halo, KZ, Resistance, etc. If anything GE just showed how crappy the FPS library of WIi actually was.

He uses these tired aruguments but always leaves out the actual biggest factors.

 

So you're saying there's far better quality FPS titles on the other systems... and that doesn't explain the low performance of FPS on the Wii?

Very classy, by the way, saying things like that in a response to someone else, as an indirect attack on me.

 

But that doesnt change the fact that the games did get better? did they not? im not saying that COD4 missing didnt contribute, but lets be real here the sales would have dwindled no matter what. Even if it had all the features, it would have looked the worse, ran the worse and played the worse people dont want to deal with that, so they would have migrated to other versions anyway. DS got COD4 and every subsequent one and still saw sales plummet. DLC is a sad excuse as every version gets it late besides 360 didnt stop PC or PS3 version doing well. Explain. ADs are MS exclusive didnt stop PS3 version doing well, explain.

GTA is an open world game. So you havent proved anything, name a game of that genre that did well. Cause the few WIi had didnt light the world on fire and their own exclusive Lego city game didnt do much either. and the GTA released on DS didnt do much either. So he isnt wrong.

No it explains the "low" performance of GE on the HD twins, better options it was too expensive, a year late port. Very good reasons to sell "low" which it didnt. Low performance of FPS on Wii? the games suck for the most part the only good ones were some of the CODs and those were the worst versions you can get. besides portables. People arent that ignorant, they want FPSs they arent getting a Wii or a WIi u for them. THey know that those systems dont have a lot of those games adn the ones they do have a mediocore at best. Its that simple.

Saying your lying to yourself might be harsh but lets be real. You've been using the same fail examples for a while now, and you keep purposely leaving out information just to make your point look better not the first time. And when called out on it you sidestep completly. GE was a late more expensive port, NMH the same. TO use those as points of reference to say Wii versions of anything doing better is laughable. How about get some examples when the games released day and date together on all platforms you wont do that cause your argument falls apart. Unless its some family tripe the WIi version and Wii U ones always do worst and you know it. Force Unleased 1 2 EVERY COD. Splinter Cell, Assassin's Creed. I can go on.



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oniyide said:
Saying your lying to yourself might be harsh but lets be real. You've been using the same fail examples for a while now, and you keep purposely leaving out information just to make your point look better not the first time. And when called out on it you sidestep completly. GE was a late more expensive port, NMH the same. TO use those as points of reference to say Wii versions of anything doing better is laughable. How about get some examples when the games released day and date together on all platforms you wont do that cause your argument falls apart. Unless its some family tripe the WIi version and Wii U ones always do worst and you know it. Force Unleased 1 2 EVERY COD. Splinter Cell, Assassin's Creed. I can go on.

I'm not going to waste time arguing further with you. You cherry-pick, and then proclaim that I'm the one cherry-picking. You ignore my actual argument, and then attack me personally for using examples when all I needed to do was show that examples existed.

And now you're pointing out that GE and NMH were "late ports"... but of course, Wii never, ever got late ports that were then pointed to as "see, games don't sell on Nintendo systems", right?

Oh, and CoD3 sold better on Wii than on PS3. And Force Unleashed 1 sold about as well on Wii as on PS3 and 360. Splinter Cell? You mean the game that was rated 85 on metacritic for 360, 78 for PS3, and 61 for Wii? Or the game that was rated 82 on metacritic for 360, 84 for PS3, and 75 for Wii U?

Of course, you demand that I use examples of games that released day and date together because you know full well that very few of those actually exist, and most of those involved the publishers heavily advertising the other versions and ignoring the Wii or Wii U versions. CoD: Ghosts, for instance. Check out the advertising...

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2013/04/pvca85ul.jpg
http://adshel.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Activision_COD_perth_04112013-14-370x280.jpg
http://www.jbhifi.com.au/images/2011/games/black-ops-Must-Have-Games-Page_01-B.png
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/20130430-070636-610x384.jpg
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/20131018-104333-620x400.jpg
http://mp1st.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ku-xlarge.jpg

In all of my searching, I managed to find a total of one ad/catalogue that mentioned the Wii U version. Yet you think it's Wii U owners' faults that the game didn't sell well?



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
GTA's online features have become a large factor for the games's replay value. Not only for the increasingly popular gameplay features, but because of the social factor. But I guess you're the one who decides which missing features are unnecessary and which missing features makes the port noticeably inferior to the other versions.

Still, you're missing the whole point. People who are interested in GTA are often also interested in online-heavy games like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Halo, Killzone etc.. And if they get to choose they will purchase the console that allows them to play those games as well as GTA. Buying a Wii U separately for GTA makes no sense, especially if you're not interested in Nintendo titles.

I don't recall anybody saying it should be an exclusive. We said that they hadn't even tried to sell a real GTA title on a Nintendo system, so they can't say that it wouldn't sell well.

And YOU are missing the whole point. The online infrastructure on Wii U can't be improved much if developers aren't using the online system. But more than that, as I said, GTA isn't exactly known for its online. It has online features, sure... but nothing the Wii U couldn't handle. If you disagree, give me something specific - something that you believe Wii U's online would be unable to handle.

I'm fed up with people like you asserting that the Wii U's online infrastructure is bad, without ever specifying any actual problem with it. You just talk in generic "it's not as good", and if pushed, you point out the absence of games. Absence of games proves lack of testing of its infrastructure by developers, not lack of infrastructure. So if you can't be more specific about the problems, then just stop making the claim.



i think gtav on wii u could move more than 1 M with the right port.

gamepad with gta1 view, a pikachu car, bundle it for 300$



Zelda, Yoshi, X, Splatoon, Kirby, Mario Maker, MvDK, MP10. I don't know man. Zelda is the only one of those titles I see being a multi million seller. That Kirby game and Mario maker look like $5 cell phone games, splatoon will not find an audience without a more distinguishing character, X is pretty niche and will probably sell less than the original xenoblade. There is some quantity, but the quality is lacking. With the total lack of third party support, their missing out on the metaphorical 5 Zelda-u's they could have in the form of borderlands, call of duty, battlefield, assassin's creed, batman, and the evil within. Until their second party deals materialize the library of wii-u games will suffer.
Just to be clear, I personally can't wait for x, Zelda, and splatoon next year, and bayonetta and hyrule warriors this year.



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Kinda got a chuckle when the topic directly above this thread is "So... we have nothing to look forward to this summer from Nintendo?".



Aielyn said:

I don't recall anybody saying it should be an exclusive. We said that they hadn't even tried to sell a real GTA title on a Nintendo system, so they can't say that it wouldn't sell well.

And YOU are missing the whole point. The online infrastructure on Wii U can't be improved much if developers aren't using the online system. But more than that, as I said, GTA isn't exactly known for its online. It has online features, sure... but nothing the Wii U couldn't handle. If you disagree, give me something specific - something that you believe Wii U's online would be unable to handle.

I'm fed up with people like you asserting that the Wii U's online infrastructure is bad, without ever specifying any actual problem with it. You just talk in generic "it's not as good", and if pushed, you point out the absence of games. Absence of games proves lack of testing of its infrastructure by developers, not lack of infrastructure. So if you can't be more specific about the problems, then just stop making the claim.


I don't recall anybody saying it should be an exclusive either. What I do recall is myself saying that it needs to be exclusive to the system in order to be successful unless the system's online is improved or the console had interesting revolutionary controller options.

It's not only about what Wii U can or can't handle, it's that even if it can handle it, it handles it poorly. For instance, if you want to send text messages to your friends you would need to momentarily exit your gaming session to enter the friend list and send it from there. Unlike Xbox Live where you can just press the Xbox Guide button and send any form of messages or game invites to friends or recent players immediately. (Which reminds me, can you even send a quick voice message to someone after playing a game together? Or any voice messages at all? And can you submit player reviews to make it more or less likely to encounter specific players in matchmaking?) Party invites is also something that Wii U completely lacks. Then of course we have things like accounts having no universal achievements system and being bound to consoles, meaning that if you want to bring your profile to a friends' house for some online co-op you simply can't do that unless he is willing to format his hard drive and perform a system transfer.

Certain features target certain players, and Wii U's lacking features most certainly adds up to make it the least attractive system for players who enjoy communicating and playing games with their friends and random players over the internet. How you have been able not to see all of this which is considered obvious even by the most dedicated Nintendo fans, is beyond me.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

It's not only about what Wii U can or can't handle, it's that even if it can handle it, it handles it poorly. For instance, if you want to send text messages to your friends you would need to momentarily exit your gaming session to enter the friend list and send it from there. Unlike Xbox Live where you can just press the Xbox Guide button and send any form of messages or game invites to friends or recent players immediately. (Which reminds me, can you even send a quick voice message to someone after playing a game together? Or any voice messages at all? And can you submit player reviews to make it more or less likely to encounter specific players in matchmaking?) Party invites is also something that Wii U completely lacks. Then of course we have things like accounts having no universal achievements system and being bound to consoles, meaning that if you want to bring your profile to a friends' house for some online co-op you simply can't do that unless he is willing to format his hard drive and perform a system transfer.

Certain features target certain players, and Wii U's lacking features most certainly adds up to make it the least attractive system for players who enjoy communicating and playing games with their friends and random players over the internet. How you have been able not to see all of this which is considered obvious even by the most dedicated Nintendo fans, is beyond me.


Seriously ... do you live in the early 2000s? People make communication stuff with their smartphones these days. It would be a nice addition to send voice or text messages with the console, but this is only a afterthought nowadays.

Speaking of communication: The Miiverse is well received. And in the Nintendo online games, and other games like CoD & Co. you can play with friends or random players online.

Nintendo does what Nintendo does best: Create great games.



z101 said:


Seriously ... do you live in the early 2000s? People make communication stuff with their smartphones these days. It would be a nice addition to send voice or text messages with the console, but this is only a afterthought nowadays.

Speaking of communication: The Miiverse is well received. And in the Nintendo online games, and other games like CoD & Co. you can play with friends or random players online.

Nintendo does what Nintendo does best: Create great games.


Ah yes, of course. How silly of me. Nintendo is clearly ahead of the time by limiting online communications on their systems. If you want to send voice messages to someone you've met, just give them a call!

 

As for your last few sentences, I never disputed any of that.



What Nintendo needs to do this generation:

- Bring down the manufacturing costs and make the console available at a cheaper price point.
- Bring the AAA first party games and diversify the plethora by possibly adding newer IPs.
- Ease up the third party support.
- Remaster older popular titles and sell for discounted prices
- Take online and digital games way more seriously.

What Nintendo needs to do NEXT generation:
- Make a better Nintendo machine enough to make a big leap over WiiU, and somewhat better than other consoles this generation (but not necessarily as powerful as other next-gen consoles).
- Produce a cheap, low-cost, x86 based console to ensure 3rd party support.
- Ensure some form of backward compatibility with WiiU, and make older games available as digital purchases
- Keep the price in 199-299 range, and stay away from any gimmick that will inflate the price.
- Everything that applies this gen also applies for next-gen.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates