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Forums - Sales Discussion - Japan Sales 01/06/14 - Mario Kart 8 Week! (>325k SW, 19k HW)

naruball said:
AlphaCielago said:

1st party support is ajoke in Japan and one game isn't much, it's nothing and the worse part is that franchise declined, very much. Have you heard anyone say anything positive of 1st party games in Japan? Even their Japanese studio can't make a dent.

It's still not a joke. But you can call it whatever you want. I don't live in Japan, but yes several games are praised. Off the top of my head:

-Gravity Rush: favourite psvtia game from psvita fans

-Soul Sacrifice: Also praised by a whole lot of psvita fans and did well in Japan

- Freedom Wars: It hasn't even lauched, but looks incredible (getting praise from several sites)

- Last Guardian: Again, hasn't even launched and it's all you see people talk about before and after each e3. Shadow of the Colossus is that highly regarded by the gaming community.

-Rain got a lot of praise

- Puppeteer is considered a great game that didn't sell well

-Tokyo jungle did well in Japan and got a lot of praise from reviewers for being innovative (yet not thrid party. Crazy huh?). I'm sure there are more.

Do you by any chance game on ps consoles? I'm asking because even games like Knack have received praise here despite the negative reviews. (you ask if I know anyone. Not from real life, but there were multiple threads here and on other websites with reviews from the point of view of children who enjoyed it).

You seem to miss on the entire point. Who the fuck cares about reception. Nintendo games gets recieved well, but systems still sells shit. 

They have 1st party games, yes, but it's not like the biggest sellers are the 1st party games. My thoughts on PS is irrelevant. I can see how the PS is popular in the West and don't have a problem with it. You can't seriously think that most Japanese gamers will say "I can't wait until Uncharted releases", "Killzone is gonna kill it", etc.

The Last Guardian gets mostly mentioned here, I have no idea of what the Japanese thinks of it and it's irrelevant to the discussion if you don't have anything to support it.



Check out my Upcoming Wii U Games 2014 Thread

3DS Friend Code: 4553 - 9954 - 4854. Name - David

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AlphaCielago said:
naruball said:
AlphaCielago said:

1st party support is ajoke in Japan and one game isn't much, it's nothing and the worse part is that franchise declined, very much. Have you heard anyone say anything positive of 1st party games in Japan? Even their Japanese studio can't make a dent.

It's still not a joke. But you can call it whatever you want. I don't live in Japan, but yes several games are praised. Off the top of my head:

-Gravity Rush: favourite psvtia game from psvita fans

-Soul Sacrifice: Also praised by a whole lot of psvita fans and did well in Japan

- Freedom Wars: It hasn't even lauched, but looks incredible (getting praise from several sites)

- Last Guardian: Again, hasn't even launched and it's all you see people talk about before and after each e3. Shadow of the Colossus is that highly regarded by the gaming community.

-Rain got a lot of praise

- Puppeteer is considered a great game that didn't sell well

-Tokyo jungle did well in Japan and got a lot of praise from reviewers for being innovative (yet not thrid party. Crazy huh?). I'm sure there are more.

Do you by any chance game on ps consoles? I'm asking because even games like Knack have received praise here despite the negative reviews. (you ask if I know anyone. Not from real life, but there were multiple threads here and on other websites with reviews from the point of view of children who enjoyed it).

You seem to miss on the entire point. Who the fuck cares about reception. Nintendo games gets recieved well, but systems still sells shit. 

They have 1st party games, yes, but it's not like the biggest sellers are the 1st party games. My thoughts on PS is irrelevant. I can see how the PS is popular in the West and don't have a problem with it. You can't seriously think that most Japanese gamers will say "I can't wait until Uncharted releases", "Killzone is gonna kill it", etc.

The Last Guardian gets mostly mentioned here, I have no idea of what the Japanese thinks of it and it's irrelevant to the discussion if you don't have anything to support it.

"Who the fuck cares about reception" Apparently, you do: "Have you heard anyone say anything positive of 1st party games in Japan?"

This was your question and I answered it.

You can't seriously think that most Japanese gamers will say "I can't wait until Uncharted releases", "Killzone is gonna kill it"

Most Japanese gamers? Of course not. Never said that. My point is that first party games are not a joke. Even in terms of sales, they still find an audience; just not a large one. I'd still not call it a joke, because every little helps and the sales of several western games show that Japanese gamers don't only buy Japanese games.



padib said:
naruball said:

The way I see it, and I may be wrong, the lack of greater boost suggests that there's no way the wiiu can do even relatively well in Japan at this point. Just like with psvita in the west when great games come out and they sell quite well, but hardware is almost unaffected, it goes to show that people interested in the console are mainly hardcore fans. Everyone else is not willing to get an entire console for just one game, as the console itself is unimpressive to them.

As soon as you get a negative stigma, there's almost no turning back. Ninty avoided this with 3ds, as they reacted quickly to the 3ds' unalarming low sales, but they waited too long to do something about wiiu. Had some of these games lauched earlier and there wasn't so much doom surrounding wiiu, I think it would have had consistently healthy sales. 

It's a reasonable point of view, but the numbers posted by tbone disagree. (the comparative graph comparing MK8 with previous MK entries' first week and lifetime sales)

The fw sales of MK are in line with massive lifetime sales (2 to 4m units), and to sustain those lifetime sales, consoles need to be sold. With a typical attach ratio of 33% (as posted by Michael-5 earlier), we have that 6 to 12m U's should be sold in japan to make sense with the numbers.

So that's why I believe the HW-selling ability of MK will have to be less front-loaded for the U, but it's eventual.

I also could be wrong, but we will keep following the numbers to see what's true.

Yeah, I agree. It's an interesting view and might end up being the case. Though I have no plans to buy a wiiu, I'd like to see it do well, as good games (such as mario kart 8) deserve good sales (hardware too, of course).



naruball said:
AlphaCielago said:

You seem to miss on the entire point. Who the fuck cares about reception. Nintendo games gets recieved well, but systems still sells shit. 

They have 1st party games, yes, but it's not like the biggest sellers are the 1st party games. My thoughts on PS is irrelevant. I can see how the PS is popular in the West and don't have a problem with it. You can't seriously think that most Japanese gamers will say "I can't wait until Uncharted releases", "Killzone is gonna kill it", etc.

The Last Guardian gets mostly mentioned here, I have no idea of what the Japanese thinks of it and it's irrelevant to the discussion if you don't have anything to support it.

"Who the fuck cares about reception" Apparently, you do: "Have you heard anyone say anything positive of 1st party games in Japan?"

This was your question and I answered it.

You can't seriously think that most Japanese gamers will say "I can't wait until Uncharted releases", "Killzone is gonna kill it"

Most Japanese gamers? Of course not. Never said that. My point is that first party games are not a joke. Even in terms of sales, they still find an audience; just not a large one. I'd still not call it a joke, because every little helps and the sales of several western games show that Japanese gamers don't only buy Japanese games.

By the 2nd bolded statement, I meant in terms of interest. There's no major interest, the Japanese wouldn't make it as a deal breaker. Maybe a small amount, but that doesn't change much. The only thing that has driven the last few Sony systems has been third parties, with GT being the only 1st party to have done something of attention.



Check out my Upcoming Wii U Games 2014 Thread

3DS Friend Code: 4553 - 9954 - 4854. Name - David

AlphaCielago said:
naruball said:
AlphaCielago said:

You seem to miss on the entire point. Who the fuck cares about reception. Nintendo games gets recieved well, but systems still sells shit. 

They have 1st party games, yes, but it's not like the biggest sellers are the 1st party games. My thoughts on PS is irrelevant. I can see how the PS is popular in the West and don't have a problem with it. You can't seriously think that most Japanese gamers will say "I can't wait until Uncharted releases", "Killzone is gonna kill it", etc.

The Last Guardian gets mostly mentioned here, I have no idea of what the Japanese thinks of it and it's irrelevant to the discussion if you don't have anything to support it.

"Who the fuck cares about reception" Apparently, you do: "Have you heard anyone say anything positive of 1st party games in Japan?"

This was your question and I answered it.

You can't seriously think that most Japanese gamers will say "I can't wait until Uncharted releases", "Killzone is gonna kill it"

Most Japanese gamers? Of course not. Never said that. My point is that first party games are not a joke. Even in terms of sales, they still find an audience; just not a large one. I'd still not call it a joke, because every little helps and the sales of several western games show that Japanese gamers don't only buy Japanese games.

By the 2nd bolded statement, I meant in terms of interest. There's no major interest, the Japanese wouldn't make it as a deal breaker. Maybe a small amount, but that doesn't change much. The only thing that has driven the last few Sony systems has been third parties, with GT being the only 1st party to have done something of attention.

The way I see it, we don't know. What we do know is that there is no major interest in them (as you said). What we don't actually know is just how important these titles are. For example, I bought a 3ds primarily for the exclusive naruto games it got and to a lessser extent for Pokemon x/y. The naruto games didn't sell well in the west at all. So it would appear that it was pokemon that pushed sales (I bought one when poekmon laucnhed), while it was both of them. Most people don't buy consoles for one game, but for their entire libraries and 1st party games can make the library look good while people end up not buying these games. I had similar conversations with people about to buy a console and they would list a great number of games, in most of which they had no actual interest. If you add up all the sales of first party games and look at the critics reviews, it is a possibility that they do help sales even indirectly. Not saying that that's the case, but that saying that first party games don't help at all may not be the case.



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naruball said:
AlphaCielago said:

By the 2nd bolded statement, I meant in terms of interest. There's no major interest, the Japanese wouldn't make it as a deal breaker. Maybe a small amount, but that doesn't change much. The only thing that has driven the last few Sony systems has been third parties, with GT being the only 1st party to have done something of attention.

The way I see it, we don't know. What we do know is that there is no major interest in them (as you said). What we don't actually know is just how important these titles are. For example, I bought a 3ds primarily for the exclusive naruto games it got and to a lessser extent for Pokemon x/y. The naruto games didn't sell well in the west at all. So it would appear that it was pokemon that pushed sales (I bought one when poekmon laucnhed), while it was both of them. Most people don't buy consoles for one game, but for their entire libraries and 1st party games can make the library look good while people end up not buying these games. I had similar conversations with people about to buy a console and they would list a great number of games, in most of which they had no actual interest. If you add up all the sales of first party games and look at the critics reviews, it is a possibility that they do help sales even indirectly. Not saying that that's the case, but that saying that first party games don't help at all may not be the case.


I get more of what you've been trying to say. I do believe in the end that from the 1st party sales we have seen, I don't think that they have had a noticible impact on hardware. However, there's no definite proof to that. But if we would sum the 1st party sales together on the for example PS3, we would probably see something lower than 60% of the total hardware, I don't have any numbers but that would be my guess. By joke, I meant their impact in sales in the Japanese market, maybe I wasn't clear enough.



Check out my Upcoming Wii U Games 2014 Thread

3DS Friend Code: 4553 - 9954 - 4854. Name - David

binary solo said:
thismeintiel said:
Man, MK8 did good, but Wii U did poorly for such a huge exclusive. I think Wii U is pretty much done in Japan, except for holidays, of course. At least the PS4 has future price cuts (price isn't as much of an issue with the Wii U) and will get the vast majority of 3rd party support. If the PS4 only pulls off 19K when something like FF15 launches, then we can safely say it is done, too.

Optimism is good. But don't set yourself up for disappointment.

I doubt I'll be disappointed.  Not saying it will pull off PS2, or even Wii numbers, but I don't think finishing somewhere around the PS3's lifetime sales (9M-10M) is out of the question.  The problem is that Japan, more than any other country, waits for larger games to come out before buying systems.  We've seen spikes of 100K+ in just a week with some game releases.  And right now, the PS4 doesn't have many titles that appeal to Japanese gamers, since a lot of 3rd party support is still going towards the PS3.  Once those 3rd parties move their games onto the PS4, we're going to see the adoption rise.

And I still can't see the PS4 doing only 19K when FF15 is launched there.  Especially if its a well received game. 



AlphaCielago said:
naruball said:
AlphaCielago said:

By the 2nd bolded statement, I meant in terms of interest. There's no major interest, the Japanese wouldn't make it as a deal breaker. Maybe a small amount, but that doesn't change much. The only thing that has driven the last few Sony systems has been third parties, with GT being the only 1st party to have done something of attention.

The way I see it, we don't know. What we do know is that there is no major interest in them (as you said). What we don't actually know is just how important these titles are. For example, I bought a 3ds primarily for the exclusive naruto games it got and to a lessser extent for Pokemon x/y. The naruto games didn't sell well in the west at all. So it would appear that it was pokemon that pushed sales (I bought one when poekmon laucnhed), while it was both of them. Most people don't buy consoles for one game, but for their entire libraries and 1st party games can make the library look good while people end up not buying these games. I had similar conversations with people about to buy a console and they would list a great number of games, in most of which they had no actual interest. If you add up all the sales of first party games and look at the critics reviews, it is a possibility that they do help sales even indirectly. Not saying that that's the case, but that saying that first party games don't help at all may not be the case.


I get more of what you've been trying to say. I do believe in the end that from the 1st party sales we have seen, I don't think that they have had a noticible impact on hardware. However, there's no definite proof to that. But if we would sum the 1st party sales together on the for example PS3, we would probably see something lower than 60% of the total hardware, I don't have any numbers but that would be my guess. By joke, I meant their impact in sales in the Japanese market, maybe I wasn't clear enough.

Oh I'm sure it's even less than 80% in Japan. I just the impression that we to tend to think in absolute terms and forget indirect impact of some games. I guess what I'm trying to say is... we definitely agree :)



That's a big if. Sadly my beloved FF series has gone downhill lately and I really want to keep my expectations low so I can be pleasantly surprised for a change. Then again, we are talking about the JP market, not NA.

Seriously though, should anyone say any console is doomed because it doesn't sell well in Japan atm? PS4 and Wii U both had great sales overall despite selling less than 20,000 units in Japan. Japan is almost a nonfactor in the console wars at the moment.



Experimental42 said:
That's a big if. Sadly my beloved FF series has gone downhill lately and I really want to keep my expectations low so I can be pleasantly surprised for a change. Then again, we are talking about the JP market, not NA.

Seriously though, should anyone say any console is doomed because it doesn't sell well in Japan atm? PS4 and Wii U both had great sales overall despite selling less than 20,000 units in Japan. Japan is almost a nonfactor in the console wars at the moment.

Aren't software sales in Japan still very strong? And I think games cost much more there, so maybe companies make more money from selling games in Japan?