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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Football Thread - 17/18 Season

Goatseye said:
The Fury said:

Nani got 3 goals and 1 assist with about the same passing record as Sanches?

Not denying the latter though, Pepe was great in the Final. Portugal's defence was great in all but 1 of the games.

Sanches got much more rebounds, a goal, tackles and even acted as the playmaker during most of the matches he played.

Soccer is more than just goals. Portugal didn't crumble in many of the games they played because their best weapons were in the back.

Sanchez was brilliant for Portugal, easily their best player in the tournament. Playmaker, box-to box, ball winner, finisher, strong, fast and immensely technical. He's a fantastic player with an incredible future. He's just been recruited by Bayern Munich as well, which won't exactly hurt his chances of getting even better!



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Mummelmann said:
Goatseye said:

Sanches got much more rebounds, a goal, tackles and even acted as the playmaker during most of the matches he played.

Soccer is more than just goals. Portugal didn't crumble in many of the games they played because their best weapons were in the back.

Sanchez was brilliant for Portugal, easily their best player in the tournament. Playmaker, box-to box, ball winner, finisher, strong, fast and immensely technical. He's a fantastic player with an incredible future. He's just been recruited by Bayern Munich as well, which won't exactly hurt his chances of getting even better!

He just got promoted to the first team 6 months ago!



vivster said:
Kerotan said:
#IberianMasterRace

The Iberian peninsula has won the last 3 euros. Kings of Europe.

After decades of German tourism they were bound to learn something about football.

Hopefully the Germans have learnt they can no longer steam roll France.  



Kerotan said:
vivster said:

After decades of German tourism they were bound to learn something about football.

Hopefully the Germans have learnt they can no longer steam roll France.  

They did and they still can. The French team doesn't have the strategic chops to stand against the domination football Germany is playing. As you saw the only chance for France to win was for Germany to literally give them the ball to shoot into the goal.

Germany lost 1 game against them, they would still win 8/10 games against them.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:
Kerotan said:

Hopefully the Germans have learnt they can no longer steam roll France.  

They did and they still can. The French team doesn't have the strategic chops to stand against the domination football Germany is playing. As you saw the only chance for France to win was for Germany to literally give them the ball to shoot into the goal.

Germany lost 1 game against them, they would still win 8/10 games against them.

Losing 2-0 is not steam rolling.  It's an attempted steam roll but ultimately a failure. 



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okr said:
Slimebeast said:

... What's your definition of a big football nation? It's not simply to win a big tournament because in that case you wouldn't have described Chile like that, only being "on their way".  Also, you seemed to imply that Portugal was a big football nation even before the victory today. Is your definition based on a combination of current skill and historical wins or what?

Oh and I forgot Belgium! He has not won anything big, so by that definition it's not a big nation but skillwise it is.

Yes, it's not simply winning a big tournament. Otherwise I would have mentioned Russia, Denmark, Greece, Czech Republic/Czechoslovakia, Peru and Colombia, which have won either the Euro or the Copa (Peru even twice afaik). And African nations unfortunately don't still have a chance as they are lacking the allocated money and infrastructure of European and South/Middle American nations.

The following were already among the big football nations for me without an international title as they always produced great players, club teams and coaches, but at the same time their national teams were lacking a big international title (not for me to consider them one of the big nations but to prove it to the world):

- France (only without a big title title until 1984, the Platini team was excellent, as well as the Zidane team in 1998 of course, when France cemented their reputation they still have today)

- Holland (unlucky in 1974 and 1978 [too bad for Cruyff and Co.] but they finally won their big and well-deserved title with their stunning 1988 team)

- Spain (despite their Euro win in the 1960s[?] it took them until 2008 to finally being considered worldwide as the big football nation they already were for a long time before that, and from 2008 to 2012 their national team dominated world football like I've never had seen it before)

- Portugal (the Euro 2004 was the most tragic tournament I've ever seen, as a football fan it hurt seeing them lose at their own tournament not only once but twice against the same and lesser opponent [no offense to Greek fans]; as long as Portugal's national team didn't win a big title they were considered as the unlucky nation that produced great players [Eusebio, Luis Figo and Ronaldo are only the three best and most famous ones], club teams and coaches)

South-America: While Brazil and Uruguay were already considered big football nations by the rest of the world in the 70s, Argentina joined in 1978 with their world cup title and cemented their reputation during the Maradona era.

Portugal was already an important, big football nation for a very long time in my (and in many other people's) opinion, they were the last one of the "defining" worldwide football nations of the last century that needed a big title to prove to the world that they really deserve to be up there. That's why I'm really happy they finally made it today.

Other countries can follow Portugal of course, nations which only made it to competitive world class in the more recent years. Chile has proven this year wirh their 2nd Copa that they are on their way, and yes, I think they are the next contender for "big nations club" now that Portugal made it, but Belgium or any other country you mentioned hasn't proven much up to now.

Great, detailed post!

Shouldn't you be able to lose your position as a "big football nation" though? In that case Uruguay lost it years ago.



Slimebeast said:

Great, detailed post!

Shouldn't you be able to lose your position as a "big football nation" though? In that case Uruguay lost it years ago.

Yes, you can lose this position, but Uruguay? No, not in my opinion. They won their last Copa in 2011, they made it to semi finals and place 3 in world cup 2010 and Diego Forlan was voted best player of that tournament.

Some might say Holland as they only won one international title so far (and 28 years ago), as their national team is not in good shape atm and their best club teams not competitive to make it far in CL or EL these days. But let's not forget their national team made it the world cup final in 2010 (by the way: in Germany we call the runner-up of a WC final respectfully "Vizeweltmeister" [lit: vice world champion]) and they made it to the semi finals and place 3 in WC 2014. So from 2010 to 2014 Holland was Vizeweltmeister, not too shabby.

If there's one country that can meanwhile be considered a "former big nation", it's England. (I think the last time they made it to semi finals in one of the big tournaments was Euro 1996 at home. Their only final ever was the one they won, world cup 1966, again: at home). That's just my opinion though as for some reason they are always named as one of the favorites for a tournament by public media and many people. You listed them as well as one of the possible favorites for WC 2018 a few posts back.



Edit: double post



Slimebeast said:
okr said:

Yes, it's not simply winning a big tournament. Otherwise I would have mentioned Russia, Denmark, Greece, Czech Republic/Czechoslovakia, Peru and Colombia, which have won either the Euro or the Copa (Peru even twice afaik). And African nations unfortunately don't still have a chance as they are lacking the allocated money and infrastructure of European and South/Middle American nations.

The following were already among the big football nations for me without an international title as they always produced great players, club teams and coaches, but at the same time their national teams were lacking a big international title (not for me to consider them one of the big nations but to prove it to the world):

- France (only without a big title title until 1984, the Platini team was excellent, as well as the Zidane team in 1998 of course, when France cemented their reputation they still have today)

- Holland (unlucky in 1974 and 1978 [too bad for Cruyff and Co.] but they finally won their big and well-deserved title with their stunning 1988 team)

- Spain (despite their Euro win in the 1960s[?] it took them until 2008 to finally being considered worldwide as the big football nation they already were for a long time before that, and from 2008 to 2012 their national team dominated world football like I've never had seen it before)

- Portugal (the Euro 2004 was the most tragic tournament I've ever seen, as a football fan it hurt seeing them lose at their own tournament not only once but twice against the same and lesser opponent [no offense to Greek fans]; as long as Portugal's national team didn't win a big title they were considered as the unlucky nation that produced great players [Eusebio, Luis Figo and Ronaldo are only the three best and most famous ones], club teams and coaches)

South-America: While Brazil and Uruguay were already considered big football nations by the rest of the world in the 70s, Argentina joined in 1978 with their world cup title and cemented their reputation during the Maradona era.

Portugal was already an important, big football nation for a very long time in my (and in many other people's) opinion, they were the last one of the "defining" worldwide football nations of the last century that needed a big title to prove to the world that they really deserve to be up there. That's why I'm really happy they finally made it today.

Other countries can follow Portugal of course, nations which only made it to competitive world class in the more recent years. Chile has proven this year wirh their 2nd Copa that they are on their way, and yes, I think they are the next contender for "big nations club" now that Portugal made it, but Belgium or any other country you mentioned hasn't proven much up to now.

Great, detailed post!

Shouldn't you be able to lose your position as a "big football nation" though? In that case Uruguay lost it years ago.

Uruguay won Copa América 2011 in Argentina, 4th in South Africa and got out of a group win Italy and England in Brazil 2014

Besides, Suárez is maybe top 3 in the world, Godin and Cavani are world class too. They have plenty good players. Thing with Uruguay is, they are like Italy, they don't play pretty and often look like a shit team, but they are great at getting results. 



okr said:
Slimebeast said:

Great, detailed post!

Shouldn't you be able to lose your position as a "big football nation" though? In that case Uruguay lost it years ago.

Yes, you can lose this position, but Uruguay? No, not in my opinion. They won their last Copa in 2011, they made it to semi finals and place 3 in world cup 2010 and Diego Forlan was voted best player of that tournament.

Some might say Holland as they only won one international title so far (and 28 years ago), as their national team is not in good shape atm and their best club teams not competitive to make it far in CL or EL these days. But let's not forget their national team made it the world cup final in 2010 (by the way: in Germany we call the runner-up of a WC final respectfully "Vizeweltmeister" [lit: vice world champion]) and they made it to the semi finals and place 3 in WC 2014. So from 2010 to 2014 Holland was Vizeweltmeister, not too shabby.

If there's one country that can meanwhile be considered a "former big nation", it's England. (I think the last time they made it to semi finals in one of the big tournaments was Euro 1996 at home. Their only final ever was the one they won, world cup 1966, again: at home). That's just my opinion though as for some reason they are always named as one of the favorites for a tournament by public media and many people. You listed them as well as one of the possible favorites for WC 2018 a few posts back.

I don't put so much weight into winning the Copa America, unless Uruguay beated both Brazil and Argentina in that tournament?

Wait a minut, did Urugya come 3d in 2010? I didn't remember that. That's very impressive. Forlan, he was really great! And now that you bring up good players, they have both Suarez and Cavani! Forget what I say about Uruguay losing the position.

Yes I listed England. I truly thought they were a top 5 or something like that this time. (but note that I have allowed my heart to guide me to a large extent in betting this Euro cup as well as in past tournaments, and I also think propaganda is a part of nations vs nations).

You know, this age-old England controversy. I hate that it's the same every time, it's been like this since 1990 my first World Cup I clearly remember. Being from Northern Europe my heart is with the UK and England, and I want them to win so bad (less with time though), and now not only because the Premiere League is the best league in the world, I mean how can England not be in the very top? Year after year after year the same story and they let us down. It's the most strange thing in football, such an extremely interest in football on all levels, big population, huge number of kids playing football, economically number 1 with the PL, all factors are for it, and yet no success with the national team.

And what's with the Premiere League overpaying for foreign players all the time? It sucks that they have to play nearly double compared with La Liga or Italy. Man U gets the same revenue as Barcelona and R Madrid but never get a team that can match. Still Rooney, wth...