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Forums - Sony - ICE Team-PS4 Boost From Future SDK Improvements, Focus On GPGPU Rendering, PS4 X1 Gap Will Magnify

arcane_chaos on 24 May 2014

I don't any of this tech talk but that pic of Cerny is golden!!!



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Hardcore_gamer on 24 May 2014

ICE team has never worked on Xbox one how can they say ps4 sdk update gonna make ps4 more more powerful than Xbox one 



TheFallen on 24 May 2014
PigPen said:
Zekkyou said:
PigPen said:
But it still has GDDR5 instead of eDRAM. This is to say Sony is trying to squeeze more power out of the PS4.

I'm not going to bother explaining how totally wrong this is again (you'd have thought the GC having 16MB of eDRAM while the WiiU only twice more with 32MB would have been proof enough for you), but the PS4 not having eDRAM was a choice specifically made by Sony, as stated by Cerny in the interview i previously linked you. It makes development far more complicated than it needs to be, which somewhat defeats the point in it.


I know I'm not wrong, you are.  I've been ignoring you but now lets draw this out.  The PS4 has GDDR5: 256-Bit Bus at 176GB a second.  The large memory the Wii U has with eDRAM stomps it.  The large memory aid in making inpressive graphics.  The Wii U have not 4MB, 16MB but 32MB.  You are talking at least 1Tb or 1000GB a second. The Wii U also has a GPGPU, and the GPU and CPU fit perfectly.  The Wii U is a powerhouse. 



176GB > 1000GB http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/06/29/mark-cerny-explains-how-the-ps4s-8-gb-gdrr5-ram-and-bus-work-and-why-they-were-chosen/

PigPen on 24 May 2014
TheFallen said:
PigPen said:
Zekkyou said:
PigPen said:
But it still has GDDR5 instead of eDRAM. This is to say Sony is trying to squeeze more power out of the PS4.

I'm not going to bother explaining how totally wrong this is again (you'd have thought the GC having 16MB of eDRAM while the WiiU only twice more with 32MB would have been proof enough for you), but the PS4 not having eDRAM was a choice specifically made by Sony, as stated by Cerny in the interview i previously linked you. It makes development far more complicated than it needs to be, which somewhat defeats the point in it.


I know I'm not wrong, you are.  I've been ignoring you but now lets draw this out.  The PS4 has GDDR5: 256-Bit Bus at 176GB a second.  The large memory the Wii U has with eDRAM stomps it.  The large memory aid in making inpressive graphics.  The Wii U have not 4MB, 16MB but 32MB.  You are talking at least 1Tb or 1000GB a second. The Wii U also has a GPGPU, and the GPU and CPU fit perfectly.  The Wii U is a powerhouse. 


176GB > 1000GB http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/06/29/mark-cerny-explains-how-the-ps4s-8-gb-gdrr5-ram-and-bus-work-and-why-they-were-chosen/


That doesn't make any sense, you have to read what he is saying carefully.



Zekkyou on 24 May 2014
PigPen said:
TheFallen said:


176GB > 1000GB http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/06/29/mark-cerny-explains-how-the-ps4s-8-gb-gdrr5-ram-and-bus-work-and-why-they-were-chosen/


That doesn't make any sense, you have to read what he is saying carefully.

That's pretty much what he said though. They decided there were more benefits of going with 8GB of high speed GDDR5 RAM rather than a tiny bit of eDRAM with 8GB of slow GDDR5. 

It makes things simpler for the developer, since they don't need to work around having a very small amount of eDRAM. Thus, lots of 176GB > very little 1000GB.



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gooch_destroyer on 24 May 2014
PigPen said:
Zekkyou said:
PigPen said:

You said a lot in there, but I'm going to jump on one.  A awful CPU & GPU really. lol  Nobody knows what's the Wii U GPU is.  Up until now it's been all speculation.   People buying Wii U's to crack them open to get little to no insight.  It's also said it has more eDRAM, and no one knows what's it for.  You're not completely wrong in your post though.  You have some valid points.

We don't know the specifics for the GPU, but we do know its power usage, which we can learn a lot from.

Put it like this, if the WiiU's GPU has the same wattage to GFLOPs ratio as the most energy efficient GPU AMD have EVER produced (which is rather unlikely for a lower end GPU like Latte, but for the sake of being fair let's assume it did somehow match those levels) that would put the WiiU's GPU at 0.362tflop/s. 

So in the absolute best case scenario its GPU is 0.362tflop/s vs the PS4's 1.84tflop/s. In reality of course it's likely lower (to quote fatslop in another thread, 0.25tflop/s seems pretty reasonable), but it shows how far behind it's GPU is even in a perfect situation.

As for the CPU, there isn't much to say. It's more comparable to the 360's than the PS4/X1's. Power wise it's more in line with the PS3's, but comparing anything to the Cell is a nightmare so it's best to just avoid it lol.

As I've said in the past, the WiiU is a perfectly capable machine and can produce some nice visuals, but comparing it to a console that cost twice as much to manufacturer is silly. Nintendo fans should just be happy it's a huge step up from the Wii. If we were comparing the WiiU to the Wii, then i'd totally agree it was a powerhouse.


You don't know what you're talking about.  How's this, the Wii U is genius.


"The wii-U is not that impressive (techwise) and will never overpower the PS4"



PigPen on 24 May 2014
gooch_destroyer said:
PigPen said:
Zekkyou said:
PigPen said:

You said a lot in there, but I'm going to jump on one.  A awful CPU & GPU really. lol  Nobody knows what's the Wii U GPU is.  Up until now it's been all speculation.   People buying Wii U's to crack them open to get little to no insight.  It's also said it has more eDRAM, and no one knows what's it for.  You're not completely wrong in your post though.  You have some valid points.

We don't know the specifics for the GPU, but we do know its power usage, which we can learn a lot from.

Put it like this, if the WiiU's GPU has the same wattage to GFLOPs ratio as the most energy efficient GPU AMD have EVER produced (which is rather unlikely for a lower end GPU like Latte, but for the sake of being fair let's assume it did somehow match those levels) that would put the WiiU's GPU at 0.362tflop/s. 

So in the absolute best case scenario its GPU is 0.362tflop/s vs the PS4's 1.84tflop/s. In reality of course it's likely lower (to quote fatslop in another thread, 0.25tflop/s seems pretty reasonable), but it shows how far behind it's GPU is even in a perfect situation.

As for the CPU, there isn't much to say. It's more comparable to the 360's than the PS4/X1's. Power wise it's more in line with the PS3's, but comparing anything to the Cell is a nightmare so it's best to just avoid it lol.

As I've said in the past, the WiiU is a perfectly capable machine and can produce some nice visuals, but comparing it to a console that cost twice as much to manufacturer is silly. Nintendo fans should just be happy it's a huge step up from the Wii. If we were comparing the WiiU to the Wii, then i'd totally agree it was a powerhouse.


You don't know what you're talking about.  How's this, the Wii U is genius.


"The wii-U is not that impressive (techwise) and will never overpower the PS4"

Only time will tell.  You feel some type of way don't you.



Scoobes on 24 May 2014

How on Earth has the Wii U come up in this thread? The thread titles doesn't even mention it!

Anyway, this is somewhat expected. Cerny mentioned the GPU was designed specifically with GPGPU in mind and expected devs to have started making use of it by year 3. It only makes sense that Sony would be looking at introducing it into the SDK to help devs out.




Get your Portable ID!

mutantsushi on 24 May 2014
Hardcore_gamer said:

ICE team has never worked on Xbox one how can they say ps4 sdk update gonna make ps4 more more powerful than Xbox one 

They never said that, so how can you comment on that phantom comment of theirs? [/onehandclapping]



cheshirescat on 24 May 2014

Pigpen, I know you're no tech-wizard, you've admitted as much yourself. There's nothing wrong with that at all, I myself am quite the layman when it comes to these things. However, it has been painstakingly explained to you that while edram does have certain potential, the wii u's architecture itself limits just how far it can be pushed. You've touted, spuriously, this grand 1000 gigaflops number, when it was an example Cerny gave to what the ps4 could have reached had they gone the edram route, when it's completely unrelated to the wii u. People have given you thorough, in-depth run downs on why the wii u's cpu and gpu cannot push the edram far enough to compare to the ps4 or xbone technically, they've dumbed it down to the point of trying to explain it to an adolescent child who is honestly kind of slow; yet your general comeback is still, 'EDRAM brings the goods!"

So I just have to ask, because really I don't see any other actual explanation for your insistence on that point, do you think edram is magic?