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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundry complains about Mario Kart 8 dropping to 59 FPS.

JoeTheBro on 24 May 2014
bigtakilla said:
the-pi-guy said:
bigtakilla said:
If every frame was doubled yes, it would be the same as 30fps, but only 1 in 60 are so no, it is not the same.

This is what I mean.  

Frequency of frames running at 60 fps

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10

Frequency of frames running at 30 fps

1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4-5-5

Frequency of Mario Kart

1-2-3-4-4-5-6-7-8-9

For that frame I titled "4", it is there for 1/30th of a second.  So for that frame, it has the same frequency as a 30 fps game.  While the rest of it is running at 60, averaging those 2 frames, would show 30 fps.  Though discluding those you'd get 60 fps using all the other frames.  

For the first second, it would have a continous average of 60 fps.  But for the next second there would be a period of time where the average between the two frames would be 30 fps.  

So in some way this would be like a 30 fps drop.  Understandable how that would be noticable, assuming people really can tell the difference between 30 and 60.  

I see what you're saying, but you're simplifying a fraction making 2/60ths of a frame 1/30 (or basically reducing framerate without reducing time).

That isn't correct. It would be correct to say 1/30 of every half second is the same. (In math while reducing you have to reduce everything, if you reduce framerate you would also reduce time.) Keep in mind though that every 1/30th of a half second that is repeated will only be visible and doubled on the second pair of half seconds.

In the end it's just easier to say 59/60th of a second are different. That can't be reduced and is easier to grasp.

No, pi is 100% correct.

MK averages 59.5 fps and will at minimal display 59 unique frames within a second, but his logic and math are fine.



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Richard_Feynman on 24 May 2014
Samus Aran said:

Very noticable? Lol, that's why no one noticed it until DF.

Can't believe people are actually complaining about this.

 

They are reporting the facts cause it's their job. No one ever said it's a big deal.



bigtakilla on 24 May 2014
JoeTheBro said:
bigtakilla said:
the-pi-guy said:
bigtakilla said:
If every frame was doubled yes, it would be the same as 30fps, but only 1 in 60 are so no, it is not the same.

This is what I mean.  

Frequency of frames running at 60 fps

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10

Frequency of frames running at 30 fps

1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4-5-5

Frequency of Mario Kart

1-2-3-4-4-5-6-7-8-9

For that frame I titled "4", it is there for 1/30th of a second.  So for that frame, it has the same frequency as a 30 fps game.  While the rest of it is running at 60, averaging those 2 frames, would show 30 fps.  Though discluding those you'd get 60 fps using all the other frames.  

For the first second, it would have a continous average of 60 fps.  But for the next second there would be a period of time where the average between the two frames would be 30 fps.  

So in some way this would be like a 30 fps drop.  Understandable how that would be noticable, assuming people really can tell the difference between 30 and 60.  

I see what you're saying, but you're simplifying a fraction making 2/60ths of a frame 1/30 (or basically reducing framerate without reducing time).

That isn't correct. It would be correct to say 1/30 of every half second is the same. (In math while reducing you have to reduce everything, if you reduce framerate you would also reduce time.) Keep in mind though that every 1/30th of a half second that is repeated will only be visible and doubled on the second pair of half seconds.

In the end it's just easier to say 59/60th of a second are different. That can't be reduced and is easier to grasp.

No, pi is 100% correct.

MK averages 59.5 fps and will at minimal display 59 unique frames within a second, but his logic and math are fine.

All except for that is correct. He wasn't reducing time, my point remains.



Richard_Feynman on 24 May 2014
vivster said:
curl-6 said:

*Facepalm*

Anyone who says they can tell a one frame difference at 59-60fps is a Jedi or a liar.

Not to mention most "60fps" games have drops into the 30-50fps range. (Ps3/360 COD)

Inconsistent framerate can be a lot worse than low framerate. Have you ever played Far Cry 3? I played it on PC at 60fps(seemingly locked) and it was choppy as hell. Any other game was smooth. There are a lot of misconceptions about frame rate.

The bottom line is never trust a number because it is always averaged and rarely locked. That's why most people prefer locked over inconsistant higher rates.

Also isn't it a bigger news that the game is NOT 1080p? Was everyone aware of that?

I think it's also a little more obvious because it happens every second. So if it is noticeable as they claim and you do start noticing it then it's in your face every second. I understand the point. But it's not very noticeable, which they also say.

The article was great.

People on the internet eh.



mine on 24 May 2014

It runs at 60 FPS for 63 frames AND then with 59 FPS for 2 frames.

 

Lets do the math:

(63 Frames * 60 FPS + 2 Frames * 59 FPS) / ( 63 + 2 Frames) =

3780 FFPS + 118 FFPS / 65 Frames =

3898 FFPS / 65 Frames = 59,96923076923077 FPS !!


Again:

Mario Kart 8 RUNS AT

59,96923076923077 FPS



ANYONE who does NOT ROUND UP in this case to 60 FPS is a ....





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vivster on 24 May 2014
mine said:

It runs at 60 FPS for 63 frames AND then with 59 FPS for 2 frames.

Lets do the math:

(63 Frames * 60 FPS + 2 Frames * 59 FPS) / ( 63 + 2 Frames) =

3780 FFPS + 118 FFPS / 65 Frames =

3898 FFPS / 65 Frames = 59,96923076923077 FPS !!

Again:

Mario Kart 8 RUNS AT

59,96923076923077 FPS


 ANYONE who does NOT Round up in this case to 60 FPS is a ....

Why round up if you can just say that it runs at less than 60fps :)



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Richard_Feynman on 24 May 2014
pokoko said:

Let me get this straight--people are pissy that a tech analysis mentions that the game displays a duplicate frame every second? Should they simply have not mentioned it? Would that have made people happier?

Holy carp, way to pick out a negative among a lot of positives ...


keep fighting the good fight



mine on 24 May 2014
vivster said:

Why round up if you can just say that it runs at less than 60fps :)


Technically thats correct. Also the head line here.

But it doesn't tell the whole truth. It's a different thing between dropping for two frames to 59 FPS than staying on 59 FPS for 30 frames...

But maybe I should relax and let those PS4 and XOne gamers have their fun for at least as long they are not playing with their consoles



bigtakilla on 24 May 2014
the-pi-guy said:

Frame rate is an average.

Every new number is 1/60 of a second.   

1-2-3-4-4-5

So, we look at 1-2-3

That is 3 frames over the period 3/60ths of a second.  

3/(3/60)= (3 /1)(60/3) = 60 frames per second.  

Now, we look at 4-4

This is 2 identical frames, or 1 apparent frame over the period of 2/60ths of a second or 1/30th of a second.  

1/(2/60)= (1/1)(60/2) = 30 frames per second.  

The formula would look like this

2/60=1 second

then you want to reduce, what you do to one side of the equal sign, you have to do to the other

(2/60)/2=1 second/2 (when reducing you reduce both sides)

That would give us 1/30th of every half second will be the same. Saying 30fps doesn't account for the other frames in that second. If we were to just account for the frames that are the same, then yes, but that does not apply to the frame rate as a whole. 

The appearance of 1/30th of a frame rate (that just applies to the similar frames) would appear at the very end of every second.



fluky-nintendy on 24 May 2014

Terrible news. Why Nintendo lies constantly about resolution? First it was 1080p and 60fps. Now it's again confirmed that it's slightly bellow 60fps and isn't even 1080p. Gimme a break!!



...Let the Sony Domination continue with the PS4...