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Forums - Gaming - Developmental dead ends and the pitfalls of game trends.

lucidium said:


Indeed, but think back to the films you've watched in your life that have had the biggest impact, sure the just for fun ones will be there, but im guessing there will be a lot of much more thought out and mentally engaging ones make the list too.


Sure but as i said I'm a nerd and I like that kind of thing. if you look at the big budget blockbusters tho all the same problems AAA games have. You may get a rare exception but it's mostly lowest common denominator stuff. There is certainly room for smaller budget titles to explore those things in both movies and games. But to expect it out of the AAA blockbusters of the world is a little nieve. If you are going to spend $100m+ on something you are going to make things accessible to a wider audience and minimise risk.

I would love a return of more mid size games that can afford to push boundries and explore new ground. And I think we will see more of that as digital becomes bigger. Because the $60 retail market really doesn't support that kind of thing anymore. We need more $20-$40 mid budget projects that can aim for a more niche market (with the chance of blowing up into a mainstream success) so that more risks can be taken while also having enough of a budget to deliver a fleshed out and compelling experiance. We are starting to see some of that happening in the PC space with titles like Wateland 2, Age of Wonders 3, Shadow Warrior, Amnesia, most of Paradox's output etc and I think as those titles find success and more studios and publishers start playing in that space. I think Ubisoft is doing a lot to help build a new mid tier market, they have released several bigger digital titles that have been successful such as Blood Dragon, Might & Magic X, CoJ: Gunslinger and now Child of Light. We need to support more niche titles like that so publishers feel more comfotable making smaller bets on games with a more niche appeal. And there are some new bigger indie titles like No Man's Sky, SOMA, Routine, Reset and SOLUS all look to be interesting upcoming takes on sci-fi in games.



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First of all, sorry you felt you needed to leave your job, but also respect for walking out on something you didn't enjoy and triple respect for taking the leap to do your own thing.

For the topic, while some conventions are put in place to make a game enjoyable, I understand exactly where you are coming from, as games become more expensive to make the margin of error becomes narrower and the willingness to take risks for the people managing the money becomes smaller. Hopefully direct digital distribution will create a viable market for more creative minded small studios.

Best of luck with your game!



Tagging for later reading. I want to give this thread the full attention it deserves.



EDIT: I deleted my first paragraph somehow? Ummm...well ill just leave this:


Central Question: "Will this make my game better able to achieve its goal?"

I think that is the central question of game design, and one that is often ignored for the sake of adhering to trends. Regenerating health has its place, but it seems like every FPS these days has Regenerating health. Why? Well because it is the popular thing to do.

This question should also be asked when designing an area in a foreign world like you are talking about. Would making the world look significantly different than earth and leaving the potential for the player to be confused make the game better achieve its goal? In many cases, I'd argue yes, but once again, this question needs to be asked for all games, and there are times when an "earth-like" planet may be best.

I have never made a game (although I have thought about it for a long time) but I think that in pre-production, this central question needs to be asked about every system in the game. Many video games seem to take the central layout of a popular game, tweak one aspect and call it brand new, even if all the other pieces don't really fit to the ideology of the central idea.



As pointed by others here. If such "alien" art/level design is incorporated into the game. It would end up alienating alot of the prospected consumers and frustrating the others. Could work well with smaller niche games though.



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lucidium said:
zarx said:
Those things are built that way so that they are easily understood by the player. like it or not the fiction is just trappings ontop of the game design in most cases. Levels and systems are designed with usability first and then fiction is added on top. Usability and convenience come first, that is also why aliens in most movies speak English or we and or they can easily learn each other's languages. And it's also why aliens are predominantly bipedal humanoids as it's more Search Results relatable .

Having said that I would be super interested in a sci-fi game where the aliens speak a language that humans can't understand, where their tech is unusable to us and we got to visit truly alien worlds that completely buck tho conventions of our own. But I'm a bit of a sci-fi nerd so I also understand why a game designed like that will only ever be a very niche product. Because a game designed to be entirely alien to the player by very definition will alienate the majority of the audience.


Indeed, but think back to the films you've watched in your life that have had the biggest impact, sure the just for fun ones will be there, but im guessing there will be a lot of much more thought out and mentally engaging ones make the list too.


most sci fi isnt cool... we cant shoot russians lets make em aliens. the coolest sci fi i know is from stanislaw lem. but u cant make  a good game in such mindblowning worlds.



sundin13 said:

EDIT: I deleted my first paragraph somehow? Ummm...well ill just leave this:


Central Question: "Will this make my game better able to achieve its goal?"

I think that is the central question of game design, and one that is often ignored for the sake of adhering to trends. Regenerating health has its place, but it seems like every FPS these days has Regenerating health. Why? Well because it is the popular thing to do.

This question should also be asked when designing an area in a foreign world like you are talking about. Would making the world look significantly different than earth and leaving the potential for the player to be confused make the game better achieve its goal? In many cases, I'd argue yes, but once again, this question needs to be asked for all games, and there are times when an "earth-like" planet may be best.

I have never made a game (although I have thought about it for a long time) but I think that in pre-production, this central question needs to be asked about every system in the game. Many video games seem to take the central layout of a popular game, tweak one aspect and call it brand new, even if all the other pieces don't really fit to the ideology of the central idea.

the challenge is finding solutions to these problems that enhance or create gameplay previously not done before, shying away from them and sticking to what people are comfortable with is the main reason why everything feels so overdone and tired. 

 

it takes just one game to try something fresh and succeed for others to follow suit,  there are so many aspects of game design that just arent given the attention they need simply because they would rather spend 10million prettying up and reskinning an old game and passing it off as new than stepping back and asking themselves how can we explore beyond whats currently the norm. 



But if developers did put large sized aliens into the game, it would be too easy because there would be a lot to shoot at. Getting a headshot on giant aliens would be like getting a body shot on a human sized alien.



Great read!

I was very excited when Everquest came out. Every race had their own unique perspective on the world with different eye height, different level of infravision or almost blind at night. Sure everybody still ended up walking at the same speed and talking the same language but it was a promising development. In fantasy apparently you can have different sized houses, science fiction is far more mundane in comparison. Mass effect became especially disappointing when it turned more and more into a universe of warehouse like structures filled with chest high walls. Here is a blue person, cause it's sci fi, remember.

I wonder if you have played Fract OSC yet? I get more of an alien vibe from that then any other game in recent memory. Mirrormoon EP was a nice attempt as well, but it wasn't a lot of fun to play. (problem being the online aspect, in that everywhere I went it was 'solved' already, together with a bad control method)

Last time I was really impressed with alien world design in a shooter was MDK, 1997. El Shaddai had a bit of an alien look, yet stuck on standard walkways all the way.



fps_d0minat0r said:
But if developers did put large sized aliens into the game, it would be too easy because there would be a lot to shoot at. Getting a headshot on giant aliens would be like getting a body shot on a human sized alien.

But even then, you are looking at it two dimensionally.

Would the alien have to be bigger than you?, why not smaller, perhaps even much smaller, or even down to a microbal level, at the same time, regardless of size why must the alien have a head size relative to its body or on a scale increase similar to that of a size-increased human, or even, why must it have a head at all?

Look at a starfish, for example, it's not an alien, it's actually a quite normal thing to find at most beaches, yet all it has is a bunch of limbs and a mouth slap bang in the middle - why do aliens in games need to have forms where a head or arms and legs are easilly identifiable?

It extends beyond simple changes, you can say "make the world and aliens bigger" but that does not change it, it goes way beyond that, ill expand upon it in the OP shortly.