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Forums - Gaming - Trials Fusion runs at 1080p/60 on PS4, 900p/60 on Xbox One

zumnupy10 said:
Clearly a case of laziness from the developer. There is no way this game can't run at 1080p on Xbone.

I must admit I have a big problem with gamers calling developers lazy just because they did not do something they wanted.  There are really no lazy developers it all have to do with time and money.  Gamers have no clue about such things and always throw the lazy word out there but in reality, the developer probably just ran out of time.  This is no different from the PS3/360 era where developers were called lazy but in reality they just ran out of time.

Most developers have fixed time and going over that time and budget just to add some additional effect or resolution when the majoriy of people will not see or care just is not worth it.  Games are a business and time is a big issue when it comes to making games.  As a developer, I am always under the clock.  I must always hit my projects within the budgeted time or the business start to lose money.  

Even though gamers rage over stuff like this, its always best for a developer to have a fixed time and cut the project at that time.  Developers that go over that time look to recoup the cost but most time it does not happen and they get in to the Duke Nukem situation where scope creep cause the project to be more expensive then it will generate.



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Arkaign said:


This is hilariously incorrect.

 

dram manufacturers have to retool for the volume standards. Whatever has mass volume decreases in price due to immense competition and economies of scale. When a standard falls away, prices increase quite a bit. Look at ddr2 now for example. Ddr3 will dramatically increase in price in 2015 and beyond. To expect otherwise is insanity, and it quite literally has never happened before. 

 

Economy of scale doesn´t work for a thing that is a commodity because they are already in a very, very large production scale. 

The DDR2 price you are thinking is for consumer level standalone products.

Or, if we think in your logic, we have to assume that the CELL BE and Xeno processors prices are dramtically increasing since 2007, as PS3 and XOne are the only ones using those processor (or worst, basically the last one using PowerPC archtecture).

Rest assure the XOne DDR price will no increase.

Besides, the DDR is the lest concern for the XOne price.



poklane said:
With all respect, but when games like Trials don't run 1080p/60FPS, it's time to worry.


I wouldn't worry about it, Trials is a decently demanding game, and it seems that the Devs. didn't optimize much anyways.  The Xbox 360 version is running at 600p.  I think all this is showing is just how much easier it is to get full power out of the PS4 compaired to the X1.



CommonNinja said:
poklane said:
With all respect, but when games like Trials don't run 1080p/60FPS, it's time to worry.


I wouldn't worry about it, Trials is a decently demanding game, and it seems that the Devs. didn't optimize much anyways.  The Xbox 360 version is running at 600p.  I think all this is showing is just how much easier it is to get full power out of the PS4 compaired to the X1.


Dude come on, its next gen. Theres is no excuse any longer. This is only going to get worse. As i've said before the Witcher 3 is truly going to draw the line between the PS4 and Xbox One in power because that game will make both consoles chug. 



EB1994 said:
pezus said:
Seriously?? This is a PSN/Live title.

It's obvious what the problem is here. Lazy developers!

Maybe if Nintendo catered more to Third Parties and didn't make there system so weak, devs would be more willing to optimize for the Wii U. Also you can't expect a dev to spend more time on a console that isn't the clear Market Leader. I guess the Tablet is so essential for its Media features they had no choice but to hold the console back.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
EB1994 said:
pezus said:
Seriously?? This is a PSN/Live title.

It's obvious what the problem is here. Lazy developers!

Maybe if Nintendo catered more to Third Parties and didn't make there system so weak, devs would be more willing to optimize for the Wii U. Also you can't expect a dev to spend more time on a console that isn't the clear Market Leader. I guess the Tablet is so essential for its Media features they had no choice but to hold the console back.





EB1994 said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
EB1994 said:

It's obvious what the problem is here. Lazy developers!

Maybe if Nintendo catered more to Third Parties and didn't make there system so weak, devs would be more willing to optimize for the Wii U. Also you can't expect a dev to spend more time on a console that isn't the clear Market Leader. I guess the Tablet is so essential for its Media features they had no choice but to hold the console back.





In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dark_Feanor said:

Economy of scale doesn´t work for a thing that is a commodity because they are already in a very, very large production scale. 

The DDR2 price you are thinking is for consumer level standalone products.

Or, if we think in your logic, we have to assume that the CELL BE and Xeno processors prices are dramtically increasing since 2007, as PS3 and XOne are the only ones using those processor (or worst, basically the last one using PowerPC archtecture).

Rest assure the XOne DDR price will no increase.

Besides, the DDR is the lest concern for the XOne price.


That very very very large production scale you speak of? Has been declining.

Hynix had a fire at one of it's fabrication facilities.
OCZ left the DRAM market.
Elpida went bankrupt.
Shift to DDR4.
Shift to LDDR3.
Scaled back DDR3 production during financial crisis.
Thus by extension less production of plain-jane DDR3, supply and demand then plays into it, if you have more demand than you can supply, prices then naturally rise.
The Playstation 3 was a little different, it had dedicated production facilities for it's Ram, Microsoft and Sony this time however are relying far more heavily on 3rd parties.

During the financial crisis DRAM was sitting in massive piles in warehouses, which costs money, so prices dropped to record lows to shift volume, then as the US and other nations started to recover so did demand, then you had all the other issues that compounded the issue of price, that I listed above.
The consoles aren't immune to these pricing fluctuations, however they would have contracted deals, but they can end up changing. (Case in point, GPU prices for the first Xbox, Microsoft wanted them cheaper, nVidia didn't.)

As for the Cell and other processors, the reason why they get cheaper is because they take advantage of newer fabrication node processes, thus they get smaller and cheaper to produce, DRAM market is far more volatile.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Yep, DRAM is sourced from the cheapest sources, and the price is cheapest for what is in mass production at the time. DDR3 will go up $/GB as DDR4 ramps up in consumer/business PCs and notebooks, as well as servers.

If DDR3 remained the standard, but underwent a new die process, then it would get even cheaper.

If Microsoft built their own fab facility for making DDR3, and sold the excess (perhaps buy out a cobwebbed facility from a bankrupt company), they could lower their costs there. It could actually be a brilliant move if done right. Sell it cheap under the Microsoft brand for PCs/Macs, as there will be demand for DDR3 for years to come, and use the cheap BoM cost to supply XB1 consoles.

However, that is exceedingly unlikely, so what will happen is MS will just have to pay market value for DDR3. And market value will go up as supply goes down.

From a DRAM manufacturer's perspective, when they re-tool to produce new memory standards, they need that new line to run at 100% capacity and to have an efficient sell-through to OEMs. Their life-blood is deals with Dell, HP, Apple, etc. As they have limited space and human resources, it makes little sense to continue producing parts that are not in demand by the major OEMs. And general PC volume absolutely dwarfs all consoles combined. An average PC/notebook these days has at least 4GB, average phones/tablets have 1-2GB, and these items sell by the BILLIONS yearly in totality. The PC parts market in contrast is quite tiny (selling ram OTC and online through Micro Center, Newegg, Fry's, Best Buy, etc). Upwards of 95% of PCs never even see a RAM upgrade due to user indifference, lack of budget, or otherwise (early failure, replaced with new machine and junked, etc).

I got a look at the BoM cost of the Xbox One, and the initial cost for their 8GB DDR3 was $60. If past trends continue (literally every generational change in memory standards has gone through this), that price will slowly inflate, or at best rise only moderately.

This could potentially happen to Sony with the GDDR5 as well, but that's certainly a good ways past the EOL of DDR3 as a mass-market DRAM standard. In all probability, GDDR5 will continue to be produced for at least 4 more years in volume.

HOWEVER :

What makes about 10 million times more sense than trying to source outdated DDR3 memory for the Xbox One, is a new revision that simply runs on DDR4. Trust me, they'll do that before they suffer rising DDR3 prices from constricted supply (basically every DDR3 fab is going to be converted to DDR4 for volume).

It should be a dawdle to accomplish, and they can match the bandwidth/latency to a fine enough degree that it will be imperceptible to the end user. It will be in the first revision of the console I would guess (Xbox One Slim, whatever). We are in x86 territory now, so it's not reinventing the wheel so long as you engineer it properly.



this kind of games not running 1080p and 60 fps is shameful.